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Misc What mechanism of Phenibut would cause an increase in urine concentration?

Casual.dream

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
30
I have an ongoing health problem of dehydration from an inability to concentrate urine or retain fluids. My urine is always clear and frequent, I am always thirsty with a dry mouth, depleted and dehydrated. I've gone down all of the usual suspected pathways as to what could be causing this but have not found any answers.

Absolutely nothing has helped my symptoms other than a random discovery that in the days after taking phenibut and I am more hydrated and able to retain fluids. That and vigorous, exercise / heat / sweating are the only things I have ever seen cause me to hold on to fluids and reduce uirnation.

I used to take phenibut at weekends as an experiment to replace alcohol, as with these symptoms, alcohol just destroys me in terms of dehydration. I stopped taking it as I wasn't particularly experiencing any positive psychological effects. If anything it was making me feel strange and more anxious. I'd get home and feel utterly dreadful and full of panic. It also used to give me a terrible burning bloated pain in the stomach. In the days after though, I noticed a massive reduction in my urination, my urine became dark and concentrated when at all other times it is completely clear.

My question is, what mechasim in phenibut could be causing the increased urine concentration, as I desperately need to replicate it. I genuinely do not believe it's anything to do with a reduction in anxiety as Phenibut if anything increased my anxiety as I felt odd/strange on it. There must be some way it changes my system that causes retention in fluids. Increases Vasopressin, Aldosterone? Does something to the kidney? Could the burning in the stomach be in any way related? If anyone has any idea it may just save my health from deteriorating any further.
 
I have an ongoing health problem of dehydration from an inability to concentrate urine or retain fluids. My urine is always clear and frequent, I am always thirsty with a dry mouth, depleted and dehydrated. I've gone down all of the usual suspected pathways as to what could be causing this but have not found any answers.

Absolutely nothing has helped my symptoms other than a random discovery that in the days after taking phenibut and I am more hydrated and able to retain fluids. That and vigorous, exercise / heat / sweating are the only things I have ever seen cause me to hold on to fluids and reduce uirnation.

I used to take phenibut at weekends as an experiment to replace alcohol, as with these symptoms, alcohol just destroys me in terms of dehydration. I stopped taking it as I wasn't particularly experiencing any positive psychological effects. If anything it was making me feel strange and more anxious. I'd get home and feel utterly dreadful and full of panic. It also used to give me a terrible burning bloated pain in the stomach. In the days after though, I noticed a massive reduction in my urination, my urine became dark and concentrated when at all other times it is completely clear.

My question is, what mechasim in phenibut could be causing the increased urine concentration, as I desperately need to replicate it. I genuinely do not believe it's anything to do with a reduction in anxiety as Phenibut if anything increased my anxiety as I felt odd/strange on it. There must be some way it changes my system that causes retention in fluids. Increases Vasopressin, Aldosterone? Does something to the kidney? Could the burning in the stomach be in any way related? If anyone has any idea it may just save my health from deteriorating any further.

What I can tell you is this.

Alcoholism, kratom use combined with 3 days of very high phenibut doses caused my urine to be very dark brown for 48 hours. I went to the hospital..

I am speculating there is some interaction of phenibut in the liver causing dark colored urine (this is generally VERY BAD sign).

But that's not medical advice and I'm no doctor obviously.

I can kinda confirm it darkens urine but I have no idea why, and I don't want you to think it's a healthy way to treat a condition because that could be disaterous.

None of us are doctors unfortunately, we can only speculate
 
Just because phenibut makes your urine darker doesn't mean it's doing it in a healthy way. Be safe man.
 
I have an ongoing health problem of dehydration from an inability to concentrate urine or retain fluids. My urine is always clear and frequent, I am always thirsty with a dry mouth, depleted and dehydrated. I've gone down all of the usual suspected pathways as to what could be causing this but have not found any answers.

Absolutely nothing has helped my symptoms other than a random discovery that in the days after taking phenibut and I am more hydrated and able to retain fluids. That and vigorous, exercise / heat / sweating are the only things I have ever seen cause me to hold on to fluids and reduce uirnation.

I used to take phenibut at weekends as an experiment to replace alcohol, as with these symptoms, alcohol just destroys me in terms of dehydration. I stopped taking it as I wasn't particularly experiencing any positive psychological effects. If anything it was making me feel strange and more anxious. I'd get home and feel utterly dreadful and full of panic. It also used to give me a terrible burning bloated pain in the stomach. In the days after though, I noticed a massive reduction in my urination, my urine became dark and concentrated when at all other times it is completely clear.

My question is, what mechasim in phenibut could be causing the increased urine concentration, as I desperately need to replicate it. I genuinely do not believe it's anything to do with a reduction in anxiety as Phenibut if anything increased my anxiety as I felt odd/strange on it. There must be some way it changes my system that causes retention in fluids. Increases Vasopressin, Aldosterone? Does something to the kidney? Could the burning in the stomach be in any way related? If anyone has any idea it may just save my health from deteriorating any further.
Go to a Dr is my main advice.

Otherwise though, you aren’t technically considered dehydrated if you are passing urine and it’s clear. You’re considered dehydrated if you’re not peeing and when you are it’s dark.

Are you excessively drinking water in the belief it will help with this “dehydration”? If so you will be flushing your electrolytes out which will make you feel thirsty and is not good for you.

2.5L/3L a day, get some electrolyte replacement drinks and take them (liquid should be included in the number mentioned) and see how you feel.

There are many other things that will increase urination too, ketosis being one, that is where you’re either starved or you’re eating a keto style diet with little to no carbs/sugar causing your metabolism to switch to primarily fat burning and increasing urination.

Again though, we aren’t Dr’s and you should never fuck around with something as important as essential fluid levels. If you believe you’re dehydrated or your body is not processing liquid properly seek medical help tout de suite.
 
What I can tell you is this.

Alcoholism, kratom use combined with 3 days of very high phenibut doses caused my urine to be very dark brown for 48 hours. I went to the hospital..

I am speculating there is some interaction of phenibut in the liver causing dark colored urine (this is generally VERY BAD sign).

But that's not medical advice and I'm no doctor obviously.

I can kinda confirm it darkens urine but I have no idea why, and I don't want you to think it's a healthy way to treat a condition because that could be disaterous.

None of us are doctors unfortunately, we can only speculate
Just because phenibut makes your urine darker doesn't mean it's doing it in a healthy way. Be safe man.
Go to a Dr is my main advice.

Otherwise though, you aren’t technically considered dehydrated if you are passing urine and it’s clear. You’re considered dehydrated if you’re not peeing and when you are it’s dark.

Are you excessively drinking water in the belief it will help with this “dehydration”? If so you will be flushing your electrolytes out which will make you feel thirsty and is not good for you.

2.5L/3L a day, get some electrolyte replacement drinks and take them (liquid should be included in the number mentioned) and see how you feel.

There are many other things that will increase urination too, ketosis being one, that is where you’re either starved or you’re eating a keto style diet with little to no carbs/sugar causing your metabolism to switch to primarily fat burning and increasing urination.

Again though, we aren’t Dr’s and you should never fuck around with something as important as essential fluid levels. If you believe you’re dehydrated or your body is not processing liquid properly seek medical help tout de suite.

Thanks for the responses guys. I shoud have explained further. I have an inability to concentrate urine normally. Therefore I constantly lose fluids, my body is unable to retain fluids optimally. If you have heard of the condition 'Diabetes Insipidus' this is what closely matches my symptoms. (Not related to sugar or diabetes mellitus in any way).

Therefore clear urination is not an indication of good hydration for me, as it would be a normal healthy person. For people with diabetes insipidus, they either lack antidiuretic hormone which causes urine concentration or their kidneys do not respond to antidiuretic hormone. In both cases, this means their urine cannot concentrate (become dark) and they urinating clear insipid urine rapid losing any water they take in.

When I took phenibut and my urine was concentrating/darker in the days afterwards, for me, this was a good sign and I know for certain I felt more hydrated and overall was retaining fluds much better than usual.

I have been to every kind of doctor you can imagine and have been unable to find any solution or treatment. Initially I was diagnosed with partial diabetes insipidus but the replacement hormone did not help and more recent tests show I am not lacking this hormone so do not have this condition. Yet for some unknown reason I cannot concentrate urine and constantly lose fluids, causing dehydration every day of my life. I can not drink for 36 hours, be on the verge of dying from dehydration and still my urine is completely clear.

Phenibut is the only thing I have coincidentally found improved this condition, hence my question. I am trying to work out what mechanism could cause this increase in urine concentration as I need to replicate it. It could be that Phenibut increases antidiuretic hormone (vasopressin). It could be that it does something to the kidneys to cause fluid retention. It could change the electrolyte balance. I'm not sure, I'm desperately just trying to find how it improved my symptoms as it's the only thing that's every helped and I need to get better.
 
Thanks for the responses guys. I shoud have explained further. I have an inability to concentrate urine normally. Therefore I constantly lose fluids, my body is unable to retain fluids optimally. If you have heard of the condition 'Diabetes Insipidus' this is what closely matches my symptoms. (Not related to sugar or diabetes mellitus in any way).

Therefore clear urination is not an indication of good hydration for me, as it would be a normal healthy person. For people with diabetes insipidus, they either lack antidiuretic hormone which causes urine concentration or their kidneys do not respond to antidiuretic hormone. In both cases, this means their urine cannot concentrate (become dark) and they urinating clear insipid urine rapid losing any water they take in.

When I took phenibut and my urine was concentrating/darker in the days afterwards, for me, this was a good sign and I know for certain I felt more hydrated and overall was retaining fluds much better than usual.

I have been to every kind of doctor you can imagine and have been unable to find any solution or treatment. Initially I was diagnosed with partial diabetes insipidus but the replacement hormone did not help and more recent tests show I am not lacking this hormone so do not have this condition. Yet for some unknown reason I cannot concentrate urine and constantly lose fluids, causing dehydration every day of my life. I can not drink for 36 hours, be on the verge of dying from dehydration and still my urine is completely clear.

Phenibut is the only thing I have coincidentally found improved this condition, hence my question. I am trying to work out what mechanism could cause this increase in urine concentration as I need to replicate it. It could be that Phenibut increases antidiuretic hormone (vasopressin). It could be that it does something to the kidneys to cause fluid retention. It could change the electrolyte balance. I'm not sure, I'm desperately just trying to find how it improved my symptoms as it's the only thing that's every helped and I need to get better.
Thank you for clarification, I'm sorry you have this condition.

My point stands though that phenibut darkening your urine should NOT be taken as an indication that your body is concentrating more useful things into your urine.

My own experience with phenibut turning my urine brown was meant as a warning against liver toxicity.

None of us can tell you any medical information and I was trying to hint that phenibut turning your pee brown is NOT a cure or signal your condition is getting better.

I'm sorry man but we can't give you medical advice on the relationship between phenibut and your condition.

We can answer other questions though
 
I have an ongoing health problem of dehydration from an inability to concentrate urine or retain fluids. My urine is always clear and frequent, I am always thirsty with a dry mouth, depleted and dehydrated. I've gone down all of the usual suspected pathways as to what could be causing this but have not found any answers.

Absolutely nothing has helped my symptoms other than a random discovery that in the days after taking phenibut and I am more hydrated and able to retain fluids. That and vigorous, exercise / heat / sweating are the only things I have ever seen cause me to hold on to fluids and reduce uirnation.

I used to take phenibut at weekends as an experiment to replace alcohol, as with these symptoms, alcohol just destroys me in terms of dehydration. I stopped taking it as I wasn't particularly experiencing any positive psychological effects. If anything it was making me feel strange and more anxious. I'd get home and feel utterly dreadful and full of panic. It also used to give me a terrible burning bloated pain in the stomach. In the days after though, I noticed a massive reduction in my urination, my urine became dark and concentrated when at all other times it is completely clear.

My question is, what mechasim in phenibut could be causing the increased urine concentration, as I desperately need to replicate it. I genuinely do not believe it's anything to do with a reduction in anxiety as Phenibut if anything increased my anxiety as I felt odd/strange on it. There must be some way it changes my system that causes retention in fluids. Increases Vasopressin, Aldosterone? Does something to the kidney? Could the burning in the stomach be in any way related? If anyone has any idea it may just save my health from deteriorating any further.

Phenibut is what one could describe as deschlorobaclofen and as such it is extremely likely that the following is also true for phenibut:


"..some effect of baclofen on endogenous vasopressin availability could be responsible for the impaired urine concentrating ability, more than any disturbance in the responsiveness of the renal cells to the hormone."

Of course this seems to suggest the opposite of your experience.
 
Alcoholism, kratom use combined with 3 days of very high phenibut doses caused my urine to be very dark brown for 48 hours. I went to the hospital..

What doses of phenibut were you taking? I take 4g/day and have for years.
 
Thanks for the responses guys. I shoud have explained further. I have an inability to concentrate urine normally. Therefore I constantly lose fluids, my body is unable to retain fluids optimally. If you have heard of the condition 'Diabetes Insipidus' this is what closely matches my symptoms. (Not related to sugar or diabetes mellitus in any way).

Therefore clear urination is not an indication of good hydration for me, as it would be a normal healthy person. For people with diabetes insipidus, they either lack antidiuretic hormone which causes urine concentration or their kidneys do not respond to antidiuretic hormone. In both cases, this means their urine cannot concentrate (become dark) and they urinating clear insipid urine rapid losing any water they take in.

When I took phenibut and my urine was concentrating/darker in the days afterwards, for me, this was a good sign and I know for certain I felt more hydrated and overall was retaining fluds much better than usual.

I have been to every kind of doctor you can imagine and have been unable to find any solution or treatment. Initially I was diagnosed with partial diabetes insipidus but the replacement hormone did not help and more recent tests show I am not lacking this hormone so do not have this condition. Yet for some unknown reason I cannot concentrate urine and constantly lose fluids, causing dehydration every day of my life. I can not drink for 36 hours, be on the verge of dying from dehydration and still my urine is completely clear.

Phenibut is the only thing I have coincidentally found improved this condition, hence my question. I am trying to work out what mechanism could cause this increase in urine concentration as I need to replicate it. It could be that Phenibut increases antidiuretic hormone (vasopressin). It could be that it does something to the kidneys to cause fluid retention. It could change the electrolyte balance. I'm not sure, I'm desperately just trying to find how it improved my symptoms as it's the only thing that's every helped and I need to get better.
Ok, thanks for the info. I’m actually pretty interested in this and am gonna do a bit of digging.

Phenibut is pretty interesting compound that is bloody hard to place to be honest. It’s closest in relation structurally to Baclofen yet it’s true method of action seems to be that of a gabapentinoid.

Phenibut is antihypoxic. You mentioned something about exercise? Is it something you do regularly? I wonder is the fact Phenibut increases HGH post exercise a factor in this.
 
What doses of phenibut were you taking? I take 4g/day and have for years.
If I remember about 4g the first day, 3g the next and 1.75g the third. I was surfing a wave of overdose... (I had no tolerance)

I was also taking more than the recommended amount of this nootropic stack for it's caffeine content during the first 36 hours. It may have played a role, I'm not sure.
 
Thank you for clarification, I'm sorry you have this condition.

My point stands though that phenibut darkening your urine should NOT be taken as an indication that your body is concentrating more useful things into your urine.

My own experience with phenibut turning my urine brown was meant as a warning against liver toxicity.

None of us can tell you any medical information and I was trying to hint that phenibut turning your pee brown is NOT a cure or signal your condition is getting better.

I'm sorry man but we can't give you medical advice on the relationship between phenibut and your condition.

We can answer other questions though

I agree urine being darker alone isn't necessarily an indication of something positive as there could be many reasons for the change in urine colour. But from what I experienced from it in terms of improved urine concentration and fluid retention, it was 100% positive. I'm not basing this purely on the colour of the urine but the overall improvement in hydration. With this condition, you are constantly dehydrated, dry and thirsty, feel awful. When my urine was concentrating from phenibut my thirst decreased massively and I felt near normal in terms of hydrated.
 
I agree urine being darker alone isn't necessarily an indication of something positive as there could be many reasons for the change in urine colour. But from what I experienced from it in terms of improved urine concentration and fluid retention, it was 100% positive. I'm not basing this purely on the colour of the urine but the overall improvement in hydration. With this condition, you are constantly dehydrated, dry and thirsty, feel awful. When my urine was concentrating from phenibut my thirst decreased massively and I felt near normal in terms of hydrated.
Dude I wish I could guess but idk. It's likely your body expelling a toxin. Idk
 
Phenibut is what one could describe as deschlorobaclofen and as such it is extremely likely that the following is also true for phenibut:


"..some effect of baclofen on endogenous vasopressin availability could be responsible for the impaired urine concentrating ability, more than any disturbance in the responsiveness of the renal cells to the hormone."

Of course this seems to suggest the opposite of your experience.

Thank you. Very interesting and yes it does appear to suggest the opposite to my experience. Unless it does something to the renal tubules that forces reabsorption of a different mechanism than that of vasopressin. Such as in nephrophenic diabtetes insipidus where the kidneys do not respond to vasopressin, thiazide diuretics are prescribed to force fluid to a different part of the kidney tubules, allowing for some improvement in urine concentration. (sounds contradictory I know). It's complicated.
 
Thank you. Very interesting and yes it does appear to suggest the opposite to my experience. Unless it does something to the renal tubules that forces reabsorption of a different mechanism than that of vasopressin. Such as in nephrophenic diabtetes insipidus where the kidneys do not respond to vasopressin, thiazide diuretics are prescribed to force fluid to a different part of the kidney tubules, allowing for some improvement in urine concentration. (sounds contradictory I know). It's complicated.
I see no harm in bringing up with your doctor.

Ive never had a bad experience with a doc when I bring up my own research. Just make sure you do your homework.

And this is still not an endorsement for phenibut. I have learned to hate that drug but that is a longer story. I always OD and take things overboard. Phenibut got me kicked out and nearly arrested.
 
I see no harm in bringing up with your doctor.

Ive never had a bad experience with a doc when I bring up my own research. Just make sure you do your homework.

And this is still not an endorsement for phenibut. I have learned to hate that drug but that is a longer story. I always OD and take things overboard. Phenibut got me kicked out and nearly arrested.

I'm not sure what doctors you've seen but doctors here in the UK would unlikely entertain any idea of my own around phenibut and they are unlikely to know what it is in the first place. I'm not wanting to take Phenibut. I'm wanting to work out how it causes an increase in urine concentration and fluid retention and then replicate it with a safer substance. I understand you have no idea on this, that's fine.
 
This is a tough one. If it were just about any other drug, I would say 100% "consult your doctor". The problem is, the vast majority of doctors are not going to be even remotely with Phenibut. If they even know what Phenibut, which is unlikely, I doubt they would have intimate knowledge of its pharmacokinetics. So, I suppose you're in the right place, because I don't know where else you could go. I think you can probably find some answers by looking into the pharmacokinetics of some of its relatives in the class of Gabapentinoids. These include Gabapentin (Neurontin) and Pregabalin (Lyrica) with others in development. They all appear to work through a similar mechanism.

More relevant to your specific case, both Gabapentin and Pregabalin are known to be excreted as unchanged products in the urine. This implies that they are metabolized primarily by the kidneys. I'm not even close to a doctor, but I do pretend to be one in my head, so you can trust me on this. Pregabalin itself is excreted at something like 97% unchanged in the urine, making it incredibly inefficient, which has spurred the search for a more efficiently absorbed, cheaper to synthesize alternative. So, I think it's safe to assume that Phenibut is also metabolized by the kidneys and excreted in the urine.

In descending order, Pregabalin is the most potent and Phenibut the least, with Gabapentin somewhere in the middle. So, if it follows this same metabolic pathway, I think it could be for lack of a better word/understanding, "clogging up" your kidneys or otherwise cause fluids to become retained to some degree as a result of the added stress of the Phenibut. This is just a theory, but it's the only thing that I could think of that made any sense.
 
Casual.dream,
Have you done a genetic test to see if you might carry the mutations that cause Bartter syndrome or Gitelman syndrome? They are both rare renal disorders and might not be the first thing a doctor would consider but some of your symptoms indicate the possibility, particularly if you've noticed urinary issues most of your life. I am only heterozygous for Bartter but have had electrolyte imbalances (potassium-wasting & salt-wasting), weakness/fatigue, dehydration, and polyuria (peeing too much) for my first 20 or so years of life...all have improved in the decades since and I'm now symptom-free, but I'm not sure how. I didn't know about it until recently so I never received treatment.

The mutation affects the Na-K-2Cl cotransporter NKCC2. NKCC2 facilitates ∼20–25% of the reuptake of the total filtered NaCl load. [NaCl = sodium chloride = salt]

As for the phenibut affecting your urine, phenibut acts as an agonist of GABA receptors...These receptors upregulate the expression of the chloride exporter KCC2, while also downregulating NKCC1. What does that all mean? Unfortunately, I have no idea. It would take a smarter person with more scientific knowledge than me to properly interpret what all this means. All I can figure out is there's some kind of effect on electrolytes.
 
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