• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

  • Neuroscience & Pharmacology Discussion Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Recent Journal Articles Chemistry Mega-Thread
    FREE Chemistry Databases! Self-Education Guide

What level of education for producing...?

Sheesh, I wouldn't want to be the one to have to clear up whats left of that labcoat
Click to expand...

It was just tiny droplets - almost aerosol, but the next morning it looked like it had been attacked by starving, giant moths. I went to put my jeans on and the leg detatched in tatters while trying to pull them on.

App. it used to be used for Me 163 Komets (German WWII rocket powered fighters/interceptors), but if it crashed on take off, the flesh of the pilot would combust in contact with the perchloric acid (any organic material would) - no body left to be found in wreckage. Pretty gruesome way to go
 
There have been more than a few that have no formal education, but were born into... and taught by the family masters. The old monkey see... monkey do method.

So I have read.
 
Well it seems there's folks on here with lot's of chemical knowledge.

Anyone care to cut right to a the heart of answering the original poster by stating what psychoactives they've ever synthesized or extracted from a natural source, and the "training" they had when they did it?

I mean, what better way to answer the question?
 
Frac said:
Well it seems there's folks on here with lot's of chemical knowledge.

Anyone care to cut right to a the heart of answering the original poster by stating what psychoactives they've ever synthesized or extracted from a natural source, and the "training" they had when they did it?

I mean, what better way to answer the question?
Click to expand...

Umm.. yeah.. I'll get RIGHT on that. 8(
 
Did you isolate it in pure form? I've extracted nicotine from Marlboros, but never got it to a pure state.
 
Hmm. If you could buy all the obvious immediate precursors and lab equipment you wanted, I don't think it would take much at all to synthesize MDMA. But...with every watched chemical you needed to get around, the complexity (and the chance to screw it up) would increase.

If something goes wrong in a real lab, you can squirt a bit of the reaction mix into Ye Ol' GC/MS and very quickly get a good idea of what went wrong. A 'cook' may never know how they're screwing up. So, lack of analytical equipment could be a serious impediment as well.

Organic synthesis isn't just about having the glassware and chemicals, either. There's a lot of technique, practical lab skills that require experience to get good at. I can teach you what a reflux is, but gaining a real feel for how to contain a hot reflux in the lab (by controlling reagent additions, various cooling tricks, etc.) takes experience. It's a little like the difference between knowing how a piano is played and getting good at it. :)

So, I'd probably say typical requirements:

Meth: Dedicated amateur with minimal equipment and a lack of self-preservation instincts (given the main options use anhydrous ammonia (Birch) or the hot and toxic RP-I reduction.)

MDMA: Significant formal education in chemistry (say, a year of organic chemistry with labs), some real lab equipment and a good deal of diligence.

LSD: Most of a chemistry degree and a LOT of attention to detail, relatively exotic chemicals, lab equipment and procedures, and a willingness to handle fairly hazardous materials (yum, ergot poisoning!)

Granted, it's not absolute. I could believe a very unusual person with no formal chemistry background could pull off an LSD synth with a lot of reading and effort. But I'd be pretty damned impressed.

I believe last year the US saw about 10,000 meth lab busts to about 10-20 MDMA lab busts. Differences in the size of the trade aside, I think that says something about the relative ease of synthesis.
 
Yeah, I've heard that methamphetamine is quite easy to synth, and that methcathinone is even easier. Although a lot of people THINK they can do it and end up blowing themselves up, injuring themselves, or just getting caught.

Too bad the best and most rewarding drugs are generally the most difficult to synthesize... (opinion)
 
Originally posted by TheDEA.org
So, lack of analytical equipment could be a serious impediment as well.
Click to expand...

In the few times I ever looked at that Hive website, I never saw any analytical data to support the contentions made there. I think that says a lot about the lack of quality of information on it.

Originally posted by TheDEA.org
I believe last year the US saw about 10,000 meth lab busts to about 10-20 MDMA lab busts. Differences in the size of the trade aside, I think that says something about the relative ease of synthesis.
Click to expand...

Excellent point. I wonder if the it was the other way around as far as difficulty in synthesis, what the numbers would be. Certainly not flipped, as meth is evidently an addictive drug.
 
Last edited:
Anyone care to cut right to a the heart of answering the original poster by stating what psychoactives they've ever synthesized or extracted from a natural source, and the "training" they had when they did it?
Click to expand...

And how long they expect to serve when this turns up as evidence against them.

Don't wish to seem impolite, but you're fuckin' kidding, aren't you? (God I hope so)
 
Ha, doesn't hurt to ask. =D Actually, sounds pretty odd to suggest someone would get in trouble for saying they did something illegal considering the volume of trip reports using illegal substances, past drug use, comments on crystallinity of mescaline & DMT extractions, posted pictures of drugs etc. I've been seeing on this web site. (perhaps you've seen a few of them too???)

Perhaps asking such a question is what's unique, not the possible answers to it. :\

Or is it as you say, a measure of the possible penalties involved, because it's apparently not an issue of saying you did something illegal. That's seems very common here.

So no I'm not kidding...I think it's an interesting question to ask...and based on what I've just pointed out, perhaps you or someone else could explain where I've overstepped a line. What's that line...what is it?
 
Last edited:
Also synthesizing illicit drugs requires a certain amount of 'clandestine awareness'. Someone might be quite capable of pulling of a synth with access to all of the facilities they take forgranted working inside a fully equipped laboratory. However put them in their own house and they might be at a loss trying to figure out how they can extract pseudoephedrine from OTC products since they have never had to deal with these scenarios previously and consequently do not have any experience in this domain. Well that is just a theory but generally speaking the more experienced a chemist in a 'real' learning environment, the more skills they are going to have. All I meant to say is that it is somewhat naive for somebody in an acedemic setting to make the assumption that a hobby chemist is not going to have the skills necessary to pull of a synthesis of their chosing.
 
Possessing, even extracting alkaloids from plants is naughty, but generally if you're caught you'd be unfortunate to get much more than a smacked wrist - a sort of 'you'll hurt yourself doing this' type punishment (fine, community service poss probation).

Drug synthesis, on the other hand, is demonstrating that not only do you have the knowledge to, but you actually have, conjoured drugs out of non-drug substances, which on a large scale will get you more than a 'smacked wrist'. To continue the metaphor, it's more likely to get the fuckin' hand chopped off.

For making drugs (bringing them into existance) is a whole lot different to extracting some to make it possible/easier for you to consume. The latter is usually only talking about small/very small scale for personal use & of something that already exists, just in an incinvenient form (such as MHRB containing DMT). The former is always at least medium scale, but it's a simple matter to make it large scale. Nobody (well very few) synthesise drugs then keep the end product all to themselves.

Consequently, synthesis, even small scale is likely to to result in a fair sized chunk of your life being taken away to stop you even considering scaling up the process. Now who in their right mind wants to put their name down as having done something like that in writing for ANYONE to see? Only an idiot
 
That's why there's "AFOAF" and "SWIM"! We don't do these things, but we distantly have heard of people who do ;)
 
Anyone got at reference that would suggest being caught with equipment to extract something from a natural source would exclude you from being charged with manufacturing a controlled substance?
 
Smyth said:
Also synthesizing illicit drugs requires a certain amount of 'clandestine awareness'. Someone might be quite capable of pulling of a synth with access to all of the facilities they take forgranted working inside a fully equipped laboratory. However put them in their own house and they might be at a loss trying to figure out how they can extract pseudoephedrine from OTC products since they have never had to deal with these scenarios previously and consequently do not have any experience in this domain. Well that is just a theory but generally speaking the more experienced a chemist in a 'real' learning environment, the more skills they are going to have. All I meant to say is that it is somewhat naive for somebody in an acedemic setting to make the assumption that a hobby chemist is not going to have the skills necessary to pull of a synthesis of their chosing.
Click to expand...

i agree, there are the usual methods of going about things using fancy reagents and equipment, but the 'clandestine awareness' is all about exploiting what you have, aka finding OTC methods and whatnot. for example, knowing more easily obtainable reducing agents/methods than something like LAH
 
While MDA is sometimes no doubt the goal of the chemist, it's more often than not MDMA, as it's by far the most popular to the masses. Methylamine presents no real problem to clandestine producers as it's easily synthesised from several over the counter (or almost OTC) chemicals. Just what the impurities may be is something else again.

If the extra time in synthesising MA proved too much for the producer, he could always turn to a particular fuel additive - nitromethane - from which the MA can be synthesised simultaneously as the reduction is taking place. This method has been commented on everywhere drug chemistry is discussed, and reports say it's quite a successful approach.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top