What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[indigoaura]

Swim15, wish I could help you, but I have not found such a vendor. I would love to have that info as well, for obvious reasons. LOL.

Have you run tests on the product you have? What do your tests show for subpar product?

I am disappointed I have not heard back from TICTAC yet. I was hoping they would agree to take my samples for advanced analysis.

 

[Swim15]

I actually haven’t tested any product as I haven’t had a reason to lately.

The first few times I rolled (starting 5-6 years ago) the MDMA was sub par which I didn’t know at that point.

Since then, a couple years ago, I acquired some from a vendor who is no longer around and it absolutely blew me and everyone who tried it away so I kept a personal stash that will last me another 5-10 years at the rate I use it. I have reagent tested it however and everything looked perfect.

My access to lab equipment didn’t happen until about a year ago. I haven’t used or needed any MDMA other than what I have, so I never took the time to bother with it since it is a risk, albeit small, and wasn’t worth it to me for something I was already extremely happy with.

If I could get my hands on some MDMA that is “the good ol stuff” as verified by old timers, however, I’d definitely be willing to run analysis on it and compare it to the typical pills that float around commonly now to see if it revealed any chemical structure differences. Definitely sounds like a worthwhile project.

 

[Glubrahnum]

Raman spectroscopy cannot detect parts per million concentration of mercury whether it is methyl mercury halide or dimethyl mercury.

Yes, RS cannot detect mercury since it is too close to the laser line, but it can detect many lighter functional groups attached to it.
Where did you see the claim, that mercury was detected by Raman Spectrosopy alone ?

 

[supernova23]

Well that’s me read this whole massive thread over a week or so, thoroughly entertaining at times and food for thought. I will keep tabs on this one as I have a feeling it will run for a while yet. I’ve recently sourced some crystal - straight to black on Marquis - and should have the opportunity to sample it soon, which will be my first drop for 12 months. With this thread in mind I’ll take some notes and report back. May I take the opportunity to say it’s wonderful to come across a collective so dedicated to getting muntered (british technical term) in the best possible fashion, keep up the good work ?

 

[AutoTripper]

@supernova23 hello and a warm welcome (not that I have earned enough scout points to be able to welcome new members yet, being a fresh pup myself.)

Yes indeed, a very interesting thread and topic, which is what caught my attention and drew me in here. I echo your feelings that this enquiry may be very long running.
Who knows if we won't still be debating in conjecure in years to come, still no closer apparently to any sort of conclusion or explanation.

Hopefully not though, and that this thread in particular, and the efforts of the dedicated members here not least of all the OP, @Le Junk , will stir enough interest to create a snowball effrct and a deeper, collective global enquiry and think tank.

I hope anyhow.
But that isn't what I came here to say. I understand I can't post links to the IG page where matey is pimping his 97% pure S isomer MDMA, but I took a screenshot of his latest post.


Now if he's legit, would that not have to be hands down the purest looking product you have seen for a long time? Call me gullible but I reckon there is a good chance he is for real.
I ain't ordering 9 tins though no way, even if I could afford it.

 

[indigoaura]

Received a reply from TICTAC. I am encouraged that they are willing to look into a way to set this up. Fingers crossed!

Sorry for the delay in replying. The GC-MS work is interesting as would really expect the opposite for GC-MS and Raman. With no chromatography, Raman typically only detects the most prominent substance present. And Raman is not great with tablets. It varies by which Raman is used, but for ecstasy tablets, they typically do not detect MDMA (or any other AI in ecstasy tablets) well until it is above 20% of the tablet's overall mass. And for these reasons, it is improbable that Raman would detect impurities (e.g. the MDPH) unless of course, rather than an impurity, the MDPH was the main AI. I can understand that GC-MS might not detect MDPH if it is not in the library that has been searched against, but there would still be a peak, just an unknown one. We are aware that GC-MS struggles with some MDMA related substances such as ephedrine. We have access to instruments capable of distinguishing isomers and I do have some interest in looking at this. A potential obstacle is samples. We have access to our own samples but have not seen anything in recent tablets that is likely to cause the symptoms described below. A large number of these were recently analysed on LC-MS/MS and LD TQD MS which, should have detected isomers were they present. The tablets used in this were from the time period 2001 to 2018. Is the phenomena below something that has only been seen after 2018? I think we would need to obtain samples where the different effects have been experience. And that could be a problem. Licenced labs are under obligation to ensure they receive controlled substances from either other licenced bodies or those exempted. There may be a way around this but I would need to check with the Home office. Were samples to be provided to us for this work, would they be submitted by individuals? For suitable research, one tablet here and one there does not really work as you don’t know if it is a one off. If you can advise if samples can be provided and how/from whom, I can check if there is a legal way to receive them.

I replied and indicated that it would be ideal if users could submit samples via mail, due to the fact that the participants in this conversation are all over the world. I will post and see what they say in reply.

 

[Biscuit]

Following on from suggestions that MDMA pills of yesteryear were MDMA combos, this is simply not the case. They certainly existed but they were not the norm.

Many years ago now, in 2003, I posted a whole list of quantitative lab results for Australian pills between 2000 and 2003. I obviously got nervous later and completely changed the first post, which is a shame as I removed the specific results for well known and frankly awesome pills, something I wouldn’t care about revealing now.

As stated, the most common combo was MDMA and caffeine, which the famed X scores of 2001 to 2004 or so (a whole series of Beautifully but modesty pressed round coloured pills with a off Centred double score (like a thin X) that only ever had 110 to 130mg of MDMA in them (this is without the HCl counted) and caffeine)) always seemed to have. Whilst a lot of pills were fake, once mdma was in there, it was in there on its own 3/4 of the time.

Some quantitative results

Have I made a blunder or what. Major miscommunication has caused me to have to delete a few things; what was authorised was a more general summary - and that is certainly fair enough. I apologise prefusely for this gaffe; i was going to ask for this thread to be deleted but that would be...

www.bluelight.org

And if there was ever any doubt as to what constituted a high doSe pill to seasoned BLers back in 2004, then check this out..

MDMA pill with massive quantity of MDMA - for real?

In more dangerous drug news, Belgium officials issued an alert last week about a new batch of ecstasy tablets containing massive amounts of MDMA. According to the Belgian Scientific Public Health Institute, a batch of round pink pills stamped with Mercedes logos are in circulation which contain...

www.bluelight.org

The notion of any pill having 300mg, which nowadays is not uncommon, was beyond the comprehension of any of us back then.

 

[AutoTripper]

The notion of any pill having 300mg, which nowadays is not uncommon, was beyond the comprehension of any of us back then.

When I was introduced to ecstasy in 1996, my much older friends who were sister and boyfriend of my friend, had been raving since earlier 90's.

And this guy Paul used to go on about those Double Doves, with a dove print on each side.
He swore they were totally crazy potency wise. Best of the best, and I specifically remember him emphasizing how half a Double Dove, was noticeably stronger and better than a single original classic strong White Dove.

He knew his drugs well and never talked shit. They described also how the come up was different like quicker 10 to 15 minutes and it would be like a split second going from being completely straight to Rolling really hard, I think they said they experienced this on halves as well, which is how they typically used to take them but I believe Paul did take a whole one on at least one occasion.

Anyway, to me 120-130 mg is a good mean estimate for a typical, strong, clean early-mid 90's White Dove. Still around in 96/7 of course along with Dolphins, Elephants etc but far less common as the scene became much more heavily adulterated for a few years in the UK.

I have had a burning curiosity over the years to know what the dosage was of those legendary Double Doves.

If Paul & Co are to be trusted and believed, and more importantly if my logic is correct then those double dogs must have been between 250 and 300 mg of the finest MDMA.


Edit- I just remembered another passionate accounts from a much older lady Suzie, in 2004 who was an old skool hippie acid head.

She was telling me about the exact same double doves and how she used to take a half and roll incredibly hard for 6 hours straight and that was all she would need and nothing had ever come close to that MDMA wise since.

She talked about getting the same feeling from a modern pill at the time, but only for about an hour before it dropped off. I think it was a Mitsubishi she was referring to with that particular comparison.

 

[epic11]

@supernova23 hello and a warm welcome (not that I have earned enough scout points to be able to welcome new members yet, being a fresh pup myself.)

Yes indeed, a very interesting thread and topic, which is what caught my attention and drew me in here. I echo your feelings that this enquiry may be very long running.
Who knows if we won't still be debating in conjecure in years to come, still no closer apparently to any sort of conclusion or explanation.

Hopefully not though, and that this thread in particular, and the efforts of the dedicated members here not least of all the OP, @Le Junk , will stir enough interest to create a snowball effrct and a deeper, collective global enquiry and think tank.

I hope anyhow.
But that isn't what I came here to say. I understand I can't post links to the IG page where matey is pimping his 97% pure S isomer MDMA, but I took a screenshot of his latest post.


Now if he's legit, would that not have to be hands down the purest looking product you have seen for a long time? Call me gullible but I reckon there is a good chance he is for real.
I ain't ordering 9 tins though no way, even if I could afford it.

surely it looks beautiful, but honestly, we dont know what that substance is. Thats all pure-speculation.

 

[GearoftheYear]

I do think it's synth related, but tolerance plays an effect too.

The binder comments are interesting, I do really dislike pills nowadays due to the binder, even if the crystal was worse I would prefer to just know the exact dose.

 

[AutoTripper]

Haven't had a chance to read all the recent previous posts if this is off-topic

Not off topic mate, bang on and dead poignant. Thanks for sharing your experience with such depth and clarity for us. All extremely interesting.

Firstly you actually made me feel a bit better hearing of your excessive binging yourself, because I have been feeling like one of the odd few in that sense, across the MDMA internet board where nowadays, you woukd think our past abuse levels would warrant the lethal injection lol for real, especially on reddit where anybody who stepped outside of the tight recommendations has rotten Tomatoes and insults hurled at them from every direction.

I am sure that everything you have described will be directly related to by many others who have posted in this thread, and comes as no surprise. I was getting my hopes up for my 2 modern Dutch MDMA Bowser pills which I plan to try for the first time in 14 years.

But from what you describe maybe better not to get too excited I think although I'm keeping my mind completely open not expecting anything. Im hoping for some level of therapeutic benefit and healing primarily, Im not one bit chasing an amazing experience or trying to rekindle an old flame.

I will simply take what comes. If any aspect of the experience is enjoyable I will be thankful for that. But shucks, I am a but less excited after reading your account.

And it's interesting because my mate who I got these 2 Dutch pills from, a long-term good friend- he never took MDMA back when I did. He only started 3 years ago, but he has only ever raved to me about how incredible MDMA is every time.
He only gets standard clean ~200 mg Dutch pills, like my Bowsers.

Our mutual friend, older than me, started with original 90's e's before me- he also strongly rates these modern Dutch pills and is his mind are right up there with the OG's.

Anyway, Im actually far more intrigued how I will find my first experience since 2005, in relation to this exact topic. It's going to be interesting for sure. Thanks again man for your story, I hope I get to catch more fascinating little snippets of your days gone past.

 

[indigoaura]

@Swim15 I was going to say this before, but maybe you already have the good stuff. I would definitely test what you have so you know what it is that gives you the experience you prefer.

@GearoftheYear I would be more willing to write my experience off as tolerance, if it was not shared by so many people in such specific ways. It can't really be tolerance when new users are reporting the same observations. Also, unlike many, I never overdid it much. I stuck to a once per month guideline and generally had 3 or fewer pills. Obviously, there were a few exceptions to that, but I was not someone who threw back dozens of pills in a night.

 

[Swim15]

Yeah not a bad point. My lab equipment access is all school/research related so I’ll most likely wait for testing next semester just to make it easy and sinxe isn’t urgent for what I have seeing as I won’t be running out anytime soon.

Just from hearing experiences I doubt that what I have is what the old timers would call ‘the good stuff’ but easily hands down the best thing I’ve ever come into contact with as well as the friends I have that have tried it.

Also have some typical and good-testing Teslas for a while that I haven’t touched. Need to use those at some point for comparison but haven’t wanted to use anything other than my personal stash given the experiences I’ve had with it.



On the note that got brought up earlier, I definitely do think that binders/fillers alter the experience somewhat as well as gel capsules. Rolled twice within the past 8 months - once with crystal inside a capsule and once with the same batch emptying the crystal into my mouth with no capsule consumed and had very different experiences. Faster, harder comeup and longer duration without the capsule than with the capsule on the same dose.

There are a lot of variables that play into the experiment but at this point I log all of my rolls, supplements, time taken, etc just to find the best experience and commonalities. Point being I’ve wokred over the years to limit as many variables as possible, food consumption included on roll day.

 

[Transform]

A large number of these were recently analysed on LC-MS/MS and LD TQD MS which, should have detected isomers were they present. The tablets used in this were from the time period 2001 to 2018.

Yet another lab who has done real analysis and found no chemical explanation for this. This is why I insist that whatever variation is being seen is in humans.

 

[Swim15]

I haven’t read this entire thread but has anyone discussed the possibility that it’s simply a different ratio of R/S isomers being produced in the MDMA today? Not sure how drastically that would truly alter the experience potentially

 

[epic11]

I haven’t read this entire thread but has anyone discussed the possibility that it’s simply a different ratio of R/S isomers being produced in the MDMA today? Not sure how drastically that would truly alter the experience potentially

Its been brought up multiple times. Not sure where we are standing on it currently however.

 

[epic11]

@AutoTripper https://pillreports.net/index.php?page=display_pill&id=38315 Here is a user experience with your bowsers to give you an idea.

 

[AutoTripper]

@AutoTripper https://pillreports.net/index.php?page=display_pill&id=38315 Here is a user experience with your bowsers to give you an idea.

Thanks man really appreciate you thinking of that for me and digging it out.
I didnt see that recent report yet but it matches identically the others I have seen.

That image as well- that is 100% the batch I have. Identical, except their sample hasnt crumbled at all yet like mine have a little.

I was fully confident it had between 200 and 230 ish mg, my plan may still be to take half then the other within 90 minutes if needed, or another 1/4 possibly..

Im 55kg buy should be 67kg minium, going by my frame, organs, bloodstream etc, and of course knowng my body and my ideL weight . So Im not convinced about calculating my dose based on my current weight.

I dont really want to take less than a half. So like 110 mg give or take a few.

From all I have taken in from my recent (and admittedly only ever real) MDMA research, in particular social trends/beliefs/(myths?), I feel most people would tell me 110mg is too high for me after 14 years.

But as the 60's hippie slogan goes- "an underdose is worse than an overdose". I mean, not an actual OD, but I would rather slightly overshoot and have a marginally more intense experience than an underwhelming or just about borderline one.

No purpose otherwise Right?

Anyway- these browsers look absolutely perfect on paper for me to assess. If these seemingly pure, clean, strong, high dose modern Dutch pills fail to provide a magical experience or effect anywhere remeniscent of my past ones, it will reveal a ton to me personally Im sure.

I wont consider loss of magic, burnout, boredom by familiarity etc if the experience is mundane and effects lacking in quality. I loved and fully enjoyed MDMA right up until I stopped 14 years ago. I know for certain I could enjoy the substance as much as ever in the right set and setting, past abuse never took that away from me.

 

[epic11]

Thanks man really appreciate you thinking of that for me and digging it out.
I didnt see that recent report yet but it matches identically the others I have seen.

From all I have taken in from my recent (and admittedly only ever real) MDMA research, in particular social trends/beliefs/(myths?), I feel most people would tell me 110mg is too high for me after 14 years.

But as the 60's hippie slogan goes- "an underdose is worse than an overdose". I mean, not an actual OD, but I would rather slightly overshoot and have a marginally more intense experience than an underwhelming or just about borderline one.

No purpose otherwise Right?

Anyway- these browsers look absolutely perfect on paper for me to assess. If these seemingly pure, clean, strong, high dose modern Dutch pills fail to provide a magical experience or effect anywhere remeniscent of my past ones, it will reveal a ton to me personally Im sure.

I wont consider loss of magic, burnout, boredom by familiarity etc if the experience is mundane and effects lacking in quality. I loved and fully enjoyed MDMA right up until I stopped 14 years ago. I know for certain I could enjoy the substance as much as ever in the right set and setting, past abuse never took that away from me.

If your hearts good, i dont think 110mg would be much of an issue, you know yourself better than we do. So be realistic with yourself please for safety, would hate a complication.

I tend to agree with the underdose is worse than overdose situation when it comes to md. It may not be the best term, but i get what you mean. With mdma, you wanna make sure you get to the right threshold dose without taking WAY TOO MUCH. So yea, no purpose in not trying to hit the level you seek.

Id say just half it, wait for the come up feeling and gauge its strength. Coming on real hard? Wait a sec and see. Coming on too soft? Bite a little more as soon as you notice. The longer you wait to re-dose mdma the less of a lift itll provide. (try to get any additional mdma in before an hour if you can, or it may not add anything)

Also keep in mind, that users report seems like he popped the whole pill. Note worthy.

Very much looking forward to your report. Stay safe!!! Thanks for helping us to understand this problem.

 

[indigoaura]

Has anyone read this article?

Playboy: Ecstasy Was Legal in 1984, and It Was Glorious

Summary: Playboy outlines the history of MDMA use in contemporary culture before and after its criminalization, interviewing MAPS Founder Rick Doblin, Ph.D., to discuss the history of MDMA as an adjunct to psychotherapy and why he founded MAPS. “With these kinds of results, Doblin hopes his...

maps.org

First of all, it is a great read and worth reading for education/entertainment.

But, it is also particularly relevant to this conversation. Multiple high-profile individuals comment in the article that real MDMA is no longer available. The article even goes so far as to call modern Molly a knockoff, and implies it is basically riding on the heels of the former ecstasy scene.

The article also does a great job of painting a picture of just how powerful ecstasy was. This was not a drug that made people sit on a couch in a stupor for 3 hours. It changed culture, music, and people. It ignited epiphanies and radical re-evaluations of reality.

People who were uptight and modest would suddenly shed their clothes. There was something freeing about it.

For the first time in your life there is no fear of anything. That is such a freeing sensation. You aren’t concerned with the details of life on earth. Health, business, relationships—none of it matters. Everything looks beautiful.

The article also points out that,

And yet, the DEA reports that only 13 percent of the molly it analyzed in New York between 2009 and 2013 contained traces of actual MDMA.

If anyone can read this and honestly say that what is being circulated today is the same drug as what is being described in this article, then I would be truly surprised. Ecstasy started movements. It changed people. It was a religious experience. I just do not see that happening on a large scale today.