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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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indigoaura

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I agree, but the time scales on the graphs in the Pifl paper were much shorter than 2h after administration ...not longer
That is my bad then. I was not looking at the graph, and I must have mis-remembered. I thought it was 1 hour after the comeup. Next time, I will reference the article before I go into it.
 

user666

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Could I conceivably follow the process laid out in this article and use those threads to remove impurities from my samples?
Interesting question. The process involves precise heating of the sample at 80ºC so the sublimated/melted impurities get adsorbed on these PDMS/DVB fibers. The Chromatogram in Fig.2 illustrates that MDMA (compound 20) does not get absorbed by them. However, the amount that gets adsorbed on these fibers is minuscule compared to the 40mg sample size so this is not sufficient for a preparative process.

It seems that since you are not interested in preserving the impuritues but in removing them, then ovenizing the contaminated MDMA HCl at temperatures below its melting point (147ºC) would also sublimate or melt these impurities which could be blown away by a fan when in the gaseous phases (vacuum desiccator would enhance this process even more) ...or adsorbed/filtered in the liquid phase by something cheaper than these PDMS/DVB fibers.
 
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indigoaura

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Interesting question. The process involves precise heating of the sample at 80ºC so the sublimated/melted impurities get adsorbed on these PDMS/DVB fibers. The Chromatogram in Fig.2 illustrates that MDMA (compound 20) does not get absorbed. The amount that gets adsorbed on these fibers is miniscule compared to the 40mg sample size.

It seems that since you are not interested in preserving the impuritues but in removing them, then ovenizing MDMA HCl at temperatures below its melting point (147ºC) would also sublimate or melt these impurities which could be blown away by a fan when in the gaseus phases (vacuum dessicator would help) ...or adsorbed/filtered by something cheaper than these PDMS/DVB fibers in the liquid phase.
Well, ideally, I would like to send the impurities to a lab and clean the MDMA at the same time.

At the very least, if I could use the threads to remove the impurities and Drugs Data analyzed the threads and found impurities present, then I could at least explain, "Hey, this was a sample that you previously indicated was only MDMA, but these impurities were present as well."

There are a lot of things that could move this conversation forward productively. If there is a cleaning method for subpar product that WORKS to remove the impurities, that would be huge. Everyone in the thread who has subpar product could test it and confirm if it changed the effects or not. Is that ideal or research study quality? No. I know that the ideal group would be new users. However, if the old and washed up users have a process they can follow to improve their experience, that would be valuable information.

Similarly, if the specific impurities could be extracted, that would be valuable as well. Maybe, eventually, the impurity could be identified through regular GCMS testing if the companies knew what they were looking for.
 

user666

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Sorry for butting in here but in my constant search for knowledge and understanding and for research purposes ;) (and not knowing anything about MDMA):

Can somebody in a few simple words just clarify to me the issue here? As far as I know: MDMA is MDMA is MDMA is MDMA. It has a certain chemical structure and that's that. Is the issue here that over the years (this is an old thread if you look at the date on which it was started) MDMA has been adulterated, attempts have been made to synthesize more potent analogs, or what?
The problem is that the recreational mixture colloquially known as "Ecstasy" is not composed of only racemic 3,4-MDMA HCl. The neuropharmacological activity of the remaining ingredients of this mixture is unknown and the working theory is that some of them interfere with the typical psychoactive activity of the main ingredient. ( e.g. see the Pifl paper ).

Most commercial labs do not bother detecting these additional ingredients (or are not capable of detecting them) ...especially if they occur in very small quantities but still have a strong neuropharmacological activity in microgram or nanogram ranges. A hypothetical example of such sleepy (non pupil-dilating) Meh-Ecstasy, that would fly under the radar of most commercial labs, would be the mixtrure of pure racemic 3,4-MDMA HCl mixed with 0.000001% of Carfentanil.

In other words: would the issue be solved if there were such a thing available now as pure and straight MDMA i.e. 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine?
Yes, and for completeness it would have to be the racemic hydrochloride salt of it.
 
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user666

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Well, ideally, I would like to send the impurities to a lab and clean the MDMA at the same time.

At the very least, if I could use the threads to remove the impurities and Drugs Data analyzed the threads and found impurities present, then I could at least explain, "Hey, this was a sample that you previously indicated was only MDMA, but these impurities were present as well."
I do not know how long the adsorbed impurities remain on these fibers at room temperature. Maybe it is only an hour... In any case, the adsorbed amount is so small that it is sufficient for an analytical process but NOT for a preparative process.

If you do not want to do preparative C.C. and since we do not know of a working Trituration procedure, your best bet for removing some of the more volatile contaminants would be to buy a heated vacuum dessicator, put your pulverized product in it for several days on a cheap sorbent and hope that the "meh" compounds sublimate or melt away and get absorbed/adsorbed by the sorbent. Obvously this would not affect the contaminants, which have a higher melting temperature than the 3,4-MDMA HCl, but I don't think that such strongly bound compounds would be adsorbed onto these PDMS/DVB fibers anyway...at least not at 80ºC of the proposed HS-SPME process.
 
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user666

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Have we read this one before? Another Tamer Awad article.
Title: GC–MS and GC–IRD Studies on the Ring Isomers of N-Methyl-2-Methoxyphenyl-3-Butanamines (MPBA) Related to 3,4-MDMA
I don't remember reading it but it is just another example of compounds that co-elute with the 3,4-MDMA and have an identical mass spectrum. In other words, these are compounds that the underivatized GC/MS analysis will be unable to distinguish form the 3,4-MDMA.

I don't recall discussing MPBA before.
Notice that MPBA has only one oxygen atom while MDMA has 2 oxygen atoms in its methylenedioxy bridge.
I don't remember any β-methyl compounds being discussed but someone in the Old Thread had listed many of the isobaries including the ones that have their methylenedioxy bridge busted open.
All the candidate isobaries postulated in the old thread should be gathered and reposted here. They had their structural formulas attached as an image, so it should be easy to find them.

Unfortunately we still do not know what the neuropharmacological activity is for most of them.
 
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indigoaura

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I am in the process of trying to compile relevant research articles into a single document. One issue is that old Sci-hub links are now broken. Sci-hub changed the way the plug in functions, and old links now take me to a dead-end page. In cases where I also took note of the title of the article, they are easy to find again. However, sometimes I just saved the link and I have no idea what the original article was called. For future ease, when we share articles here, we should make sure to share the title as well as the link, so that if the links break in the future we can still locate the article.

While going through all of the links, I recalled the poster (MBaggott) who came on Bluelight briefly to gather data for a study he was doing. He proposed that the phenomenon was related to the liver of the user and not the brain. He stated that, "metabolic interactions can make MDMA effects different." He did not want to go into detail, as I think he was working on a PhD thesis or something similar. In any case, I just came across this article:

Current Link: https://sci-hub.st/10.1007/s00204-014-1412-6
Title: In vitro cytochrome P450 inhibition potential of methylenedioxy‑derived designer drugs studied with a two‑cocktail approach

I was always under the impression that inhibition of relevant enzymes such as CYP2D6 would result in an increase in the potency of MDMA. However, this article seems to imply that loss of potency is possible as well. "Prodrugs such as tramadol, mainly metabolized by one isoenzyme, could lose their potency if the bioactivation is blocked" (Dinger). What does it mean for bioactivation to be blocked? Could bioactivation of MDMA also be blocked?
 

indigoaura

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I also want to take a moment and apologize to anyone who I have been an asshole to in this thread. I genuinely do not intend it. My partner says I have a superhero "mule" power that allows me to lock on to things in stubbornness. I think it is a form of self preservation. In any case, I apologize.
 

ageingpartyfiend

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I also want to take a moment and apologize to anyone who I have been an asshole to in this thread. I genuinely do not intend it. My partner says I have a superhero "mule" power that allows me to lock on to things in stubbornness. I think it is a form of self preservation. In any case, I apologize.
genuinely interested...the sheer amount of time and effort you have put into this subject...

why? is it worth it?
 

Negi

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Here are the posts from MBaggott's user account: https://www.bluelight.org/xf/search/943652/

The comments in question:

https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/what-is-wrong-with-the-mdma-available-today.791073/post-14803210 said:
Contaminants from the synthesis seem like a plausible theory to me. But I would suggest they are more likely to be altering metabolism in the gut and liver than changing effects in the brain. There are admittedly a few contaminants that are known to bind to reuptake transporters (see Pifli et al 2005 doi:10.1124/jpet.105.084426). But I doubt these are ever make it into the brain in high enough concentrations to matter.

I'd more readily believe contaminants alter metabolism. There must be many that are substrates for cyp2d6 and other enzymes. A reason I think altered metabolism could strongly affect the roll is because we know MDMA hits people who lack cyp2d6 differently from normal metabolizers. You can see this in Figure 2 of Schmidt et al 2016 (link below). Even though cyp2d6 gets inhibited by MDMA, it likely eats up a few tens of mg of MDMA first. Without any 2d6, you get a faster peak and a different ratio of MDMA to crappy physiologically active metabolites. And keep in mind that any biproducts of synthesis don't need to make it into the brain to have these effects, they only need to compete with MDMA for enzymes in the gut.

Now, if this theory is true, it may be that pure MDMA is actually less "enjoyable" than MDMA with some enzyme substrates/inhibitors thrown in. In which case, maybe you need a tiny dose of dextromethorphan or something a few hours before the MDMA to recover the magic of yesteryear's MDMA.

https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/what-is-wrong-with-the-mdma-available-today.791073/post-14803424 said:
Overall, I don't want to be too specific in my theory. It may not be cyp2d6, although it's a leading candidate. My reference to the 2d6 data is just a demonstration in principle that metabolic interactions can make MDMA effects different. And I think many, if not most, contaminants could compete with MDMA for gut and liver enzymes. The enzymes dealing with the 3,4-methylenedioxy bridge, for example, are likely pretty agnostic to the weird incorrect synthesis stuff on the other side of the molecule.
 

indigoaura

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Ok, so this is going to be long. I would like to get this added to the Wiki so that it can just be a link, and (pending all of your approval) maybe we can get it linked beneath the first post?

I know that a lot has been left out here, but I was focusing on the two lines of thought that have been supported by the most research at this point. If you would like me to add a new section to the article with additional sources, please let me know what you want me to add. I simply want to establish for anyone who starts reading the thread that there is more going on here than people going back and forth with each other and drug users lamenting lost youth.

Please comment and tell me what research articles I have inadvertently left out and what you would like me to adjust before this becomes a post or a link. Some of the formatting is messed up here, but if I can just upload a PDF somehow, the the formatting will remain intact.

(Edited to add that I know I need to add the journal numbers in the Works Cited section.)

Introduction

In April of 2016, user Le Junk posed a question to the Bluelight harm reduction message board. Since then, his thread, “What is wrong with the MDMA available today?” has garnered over 6,300 responses and spanned over 320 pages. The thread, which has attracted worldwide contributions, seeks to understand why some MDMA users experience an alternate effects profile even though the product is identified as MDMA by GCMS testing.

Throughout this discussion, two primary lines of thinking have emerged – either something is wrong with the MDMA or something is wrong with the user. “Loss of magic” is a frequently accepted phenomenon amongst MDMA users, where those who engaged in frequent MDMA use/abuse lose the ability to feel the primary effects of the drug. However, both experienced and new MDMA users have complained of experiencing an alternate effects profile from the drug, and some users claim to have access to two types of product with distinctly different effects profiles. This seems to indicate that “loss of magic” is not the reason behind the phenomenon.

Classic or “magic” MDMA produces empathy, elation, euphoria, music enhancement, and tactile enhancement. Some users also experience enhanced sensuality or sexuality. Mydriasis is a commonly observed physical sign of use that is easily witnessed by outside observers. Subpar MDMA, or “meh-DMA” as defined by the forum, fails to produce these effects. Instead, users report a cold and sedate experience that decreases sociability and encourages introspection. Mydriasis is reduced, and the overall effects of the drug feel muted in comparison to typical MDMA effects.

While discussing this phenomenon, users have developed multiple theories in association with published research articles. Although many theories have been discussed, the leading hypotheses involve MDMA contaminants, and/or GCMS inability to accurately differentiate coeluting isobaric derivatives. Contaminant profiles have changed as the result of changing synthesis methods, and these changes may have resulted in the alternate effects profile that users experience. The following research articles establish the basis of these theories.

Presence of Synthesis Byproducts

Although many labs such as Drugs Data in the USA report results of MDMA only, synthesis byproducts are present in MDMA samples. Law enforcement agencies use synthesis byproduct profiles to assist them with identifying the source of MDMA. Complex extraction techniques are sometimes used prior to analysis to separate the byproducts from the MDMA samples. These articles establish that synthesis byproducts are present in MDMA, and that byproducts/impurities vary depending on which synthesis method was used.

  • “Synthesis and impurity profiling of MDMA prepared from commonly available starting materials” by Ryan Gallagher, Ronald Shimmon, Andrew M. McDonagh (Gallagher)
  • “Impurity profiling of ecstasy tablets seized in Hong Kong by gas chromatography–mass spectrometry” by Jack Yuk Ki Cheng, Man Fai Chan, Tai Wai Chan, Mei Yuen Hung (Yuk Ki Cheng)
  • “Basic and neutral route specific impurities in MDMA prepared by different synthesis methods Comparison of impurity profiles” by M. S´wist, J. Wilamowski, A. Parczewski (S'wist)
  • “A review of impurity profiling and synthetic route of manufacture of methylamphetamine, 3,4-methylenedioxymethylamphetamine, amphetamine, dimethylamphetamine and p-methoxyamphetamine” by Natasha Stojanovska, Shanlin Fu, Mark Tahtouh, Tamsin Kelly, Alison Beavis, K. Paul Kirkbride (Stojanovska)
  • “Optimization of HS-SPME/GC–MS analysis and its use in the profiling of illicit ecstasy tablets” by Federica Bonadio, Pierre Margot, Olivier Dele´mont, Pierre Esseiva (Bonadio)
  • “Determination of synthesis method of ecstasy based on the basic impurities” by M. S´wist, J. Wilamowski, A. Parczewski (S'wist, Determination of synthesis method of ecstasy based on the basic impurities)
Interference with Monoamine Transporters

“Pharmacological Characterization of Ecstasy Synthesis Byproducts with Recombinant Human Monoamine Transporters” by Christian Pifl, Gabor Nagy, Sa´ ndor Bere´ nyi, Alexandra Kattinger, Harald Reither, and Sa´ ndor Antus (Pifl)

In the first article, researcher Christian Pifl establishes that some “byproducts of illegal ecstasy synthesis can interact with the primary sites of action of MDMA, the monoamine transporters, and were active with similar potency as MDMA.” In other words, some byproducts can block the action of MDMA.

“Duloxetine Inhibits Effects of MDMA (‘‘Ecstasy’’) In Vitro and in Humans in a Randomized Placebo-Controlled Laboratory Study” by Ce´dric M. Hysek et al. (Hysek)

To better understand what it may look like for monoamine transporters to be blocked in humans, consider this article on how pre-treatment with Duloxetine impacts the MDMA experience in virgin users. “The findings confirm the important role of MDMA-induced 5-HT and NE release in the psychotropic effects of MDMA” (Hysek).

Regioisomers and Isobaric Derivatives

In addition to the presence of potentially active synthesis byproducts, the presence of isobaric derivatives could explain why GCMS testing is inadequate at identifying certain contaminants. Isobaric derivatives are chemicals that are so structurally similar to MDMA that they may appear to be MDMA to GCMS testing. They may “co-elute” which means that the peak of one substance overlaps with another peak, making separation and identification challenging. These articles discuss the regioisomers and isobaric derivatives of MDMA, the advanced testing methodologies needed to successfully separate and identify these compounds, and the presence of these compounds in samples seized by law enforcement.

  • “MASS SPECTRAL AND CHROMATOGRAPHIC STUDIES ON A SERIES OF REGIOISOMERS AND ISOBARIC DERIVATIVES RELATED TO METHYLENEDIOXYMETHAMPHETAMINES” by Tamer Awad (Awad)
  • “Regioisomers of 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine in clandestine ecstasy pills” by Inmaculada Fierro et al. (Fierro)
  • “Synthesis and Analytical Profiles for Regioisomeric and Isobaric Amines Related to MDMA, MDEA and MBDB: Differentiation of Drug and non-Drug Substances of Mass Spectral Equivalence” by C. Randall Clark (Clark)
  • “Mass-Spectrometry-Based Identification of Synthetic Drug Isomers Using Infrared Ion Spectroscopy” by Kranenburg, Ruben F. et al. (Kranenburg)
  • “Chromatographic and Mass Spectral Studies on Isobaric and Isomeric Substances Related to 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine” by Laura Aalberg et al. (Aalberg)
  • “GC–MS studies on acylated derivatives of 3-methoxy-4-methyl- and 4-methoxy-3-methyl-phenethylamines: Regioisomers related to 3,4-MDMA” by Tarek Belal, Tamer Awad, Jack DeRuiter, and Randall Clark (Belal)
  • “Distinguishing drug isomers in the forensic laboratory: GC–VUV in addition to GC–MS for orthogonal selectivity and the use of library match scores as a new source of information” by Ruben F. Kranenburg (R. e. Kranenburg)
  • “Chromatographic and Mass Spectral Studies on Methoxy Methyl Methamphetamines Related to 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine” by Tamer Awad et al. (T. e. Awad)
  • “GC–MS and GC–IRD Studies on the Ring Isomers of N-Methyl-2-Methoxyphenyl-3-Butanamines (MPBA) Related to 3,4-MDMA” by Tamer Awad et al. (T. e. Awad, GC–MS and GC–IRD Studies on the Ring Isomers of N-Methyl-2-Methoxyphenyl-3-Butanamines (MPBA) Related to 3,4-MDMA)
  • “The Identification of 3,4-MDMA from Its Mass Equivalent Isomers and Isobaric Substances Using Fast LC–ESI-MS–MS” by Katja Pihlainen et al. (Pihlainen)
New Psychoactive Compounds

Also, of interest are the presence of new psychoactive compounds and analogues that GCMS testing may be incapable of identifying due to the novel nature of the compound.

“Identification of a new M-ALPHA analog and MDMA in an illegal health product” by Ji Hyun Lee et al. (Lee)

Conclusion

Although user tolerance is the most commonly accepted explanation for loss of effects in experienced MDMA users, product quality may also contribute to wide variation in user experience. The presence of undetected synthesis byproducts, inhibition of monoamine transporters, or substitution of an isobaric derivative may explain what is wrong with some MDMA today. In order to fully investigate the question and associated hypotheses, user samples would need to be analyzed with advanced lab techniques beyond simple GCMS imaging, and the results compared to subjective user reports. If you know of a researcher, university, or laboratory willing to assist with this research, please reach out to user indigoaura via the Bluelight harm reduction forum.




Works Cited​

Aalberg, Laura et al. "Chromatographic and Mass Spectral Studies on Isobaric and Isomeric Substances Related to 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine." Journal of Chromatographic Science (2004): 464-469. Web.

Awad, Tamer et al. "Chromatographic and Mass Spectral Studies on Methoxy Methyl Methamphetamines Related to 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine." Journal of Chromatographic Science, (2007): 467-476. Web.

—. "GC–MS and GC–IRD Studies on the Ring Isomers of N-Methyl-2-Methoxyphenyl-3-Butanamines (MPBA) Related to 3,4-MDMA." Journal of Chromatographic Science, (2011): 345-352. Web.

Awad, Tamer. "MASS SPECTRAL AND CHROMATOGRAPHIC STUDIES ON A SERIES OF REGIOISOMERS AND ISOBARIC DERIVATIVES RELATED TO METHYLENEDIOXYMETHAMPHETAMINES ." 15 December 2006. Auburn University. Web. 4 January 2021.

Belal, Tarek et al. "GC–MS studies on acylated derivatives of 3-methoxy-4-methyl- and 4-methoxy-3-methyl-phenethylamines: Regioisomers related to 3,4-MDMA." Forensic Science International (2008): 61-82. Web.

Bonadio, Federica et al. "Optimization of HS-SPME/GC–MS analysis and its use in the profiling of illicit ecstasy tablets." Forensic Science International (2009): 73–80. Web.

Clark, C. Randall. Synthesis and Analytical Profiles for Regioisomeric and Isobaric Amines Related to MDMA, MDEA and MBDB: Differentiation of Drug and non-Drug Substances of Mass Spectral Equivalence. Electronic. Auburn, Alabama: Department of Justice, 2011. Web.

Fierro, Inmaculada et al. "Regioisomers of 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine in clandestine ecstasy pills." ICADTS 2007. Seattle, 2007. Web.

Gallagher, Ryan et al. "Synthesis and impurity profiling of MDMA prepared from commonly available starting materials." Forensic Science International (2012): 306-313. Web.

Hysek, Ce'dric et al. "Duloxetine Inhibits Effects of MDMA (‘‘Ecstasy’’) In Vitro and in Humans in a Randomized Placebo-Controlled Laboratory Study." PLoS ONE (2012). Web.

Kranenburg, Ruben et al. "Distinguishing drug isomers in the forensic laboratory: GC–VUV in addition to GC–MS for orthogonal selectivity and the use of library match scores as a new source of information." Forensic Science International (2019): 1-13. Web.

Kranenburg, Ruben F. et al. "Mass-Spectrometry-Based Identification of Synthetic Drug Isomers Using Infrared Ion Spectroscopy." Analytical Chemistry (2020): 7282-7288. Web.

Lee, Ji Hyun et al. "Identification of a new M-ALPHA analog and MDMA in an illegal health product." Forensic Science International (2020). Web.

Pifl, Christian et al. "Pharmacological Characterization of Ecstasy Synthesis Byproducts with Recombinant Human Monoamine Transporters." THE JOURNAL OF PHARMACOLOGY AND EXPERIMENTAL THERAPEUTICS 314.1 (2005): 346-354. Web.

Pihlainen, Katja et al. "The Identification of 3,4-MDMA from Its Mass Equivalent Isomers and Isobaric Substances Using Fast LC–ESI-MS–MS." Journal of Chromatographic Science, (2005): 94-97. Web.

Stojanovska, Natasha et al. "A review of impurity profiling and synthetic route of manufacture of methylamphetamine, 3,4-methylenedioxymethylamphetamine, amphetamine, dimethylamphetamine and p-methoxyamphetamine." Forensic Science International 224 (2013): 8-26. Web.

S'wist, M. et al. "Basic and neutral route specific impurities in MDMA." Forensic Science International (2005): 100-111. Web.

—. "Determination of synthesis method of ecstasy based on the basic impurities." Forensic Science International (2005): 175-184. Web.

Yuk Ki Cheng, Jack et al. "Impurity profiling of ecstasy tablets seized in Hong Kong." Forensic Science International (2006): 87-94. Web.
 

Jmoda

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Wanted to share an anecdote.

One thing i noticed after trying a truly magic batch of magic-mdma....i noticeably had short term-memory impacts which were much more pronounced than i can recall a single experience giving me. It was as if i was back to my college days of rolling every 2-4 weeks and then after a few years, experiencing difficulties with name recall. Once i noticed this, post-college thats when i started taking much longer breaks and only using 1-3 times a year of medium-mdma...during which time my memory seemed fine, but then after trying the magic, in an instant it seemed, these noticeable issues came back, albeit not as severe as it was in peak, but very clearly a noticeable huge step up, esp from just one go.

This took about 3 months to recover from, but has made me think about people talking about how oldschool product made people into "etards"....

Fast forward to about a week ago now and we took a modified borax combo (5mapb+4fma+4homet) by combining it with 6apb and a small mdma booster down the line. Great experience....but the main imortant point is that, after this latest experience, i dont have the noticeable name recall issues i saw after taking the magic mdma.

Interestingly the two hangovers were so different.
Magic mdma - amazing next day afterglow, zero problems eating.
Modified borax combo+tiny med-mdma booster - light afterglow, could barely eat.

In some ways, this gives me hesitancy to keep trying the magic mdma...is what is making it so magic also just tearing my brain up?

I have to say, 5mapb+6apb are fantastic and i highly implore people to snag it while its available. Everyone was super happy with the experience...incredibly clean. Incredibly smooth. Even borax combo-ing it...its not completely mdma, music is huge, but seems to be missing a slight bit of the "blowing the roof off" ness of mdma, but....if the magic stuff is noticeably jacking my brain, then id gladly take the tradeoff.
 

TripSitterNZ

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One of the things i notice about the purest mdma is that it gives me the lightest comedowns after such a massive peak experience while less pure mdma i still get that loving and magic not what people describe their meh is that i get horrendous comedowns and more jaw clenching whenever its due to so many bath salts out there over the years been added to the mdma aswell im not sure or just the impurities which are extra toxic.

While mdma abuse can destory your mental health and brain im a firm believer in recovery aswell during my peak use i did notice my cognitive decline was steep but after been clean for most of 2020 from mdma i have noticed a huge rebound in recovery of my ability to process information and recall memory again. During peak use at weekly i could not even remember peoples faces that i would meet regulars in the clubs they all knew me but i was so fried i could only just piece together that i had meet them before.
 

Jmoda

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One of the things i notice about the purest mdma is that it gives me the lightest comedowns after such a massive peak experience while less pure mdma i still get that loving and magic not what people describe their meh is that i get horrendous comedowns and more jaw clenching whenever its due to so many bath salts out there over the years been added to the mdma aswell im not sure or just the impurities which are extra toxic.

While mdma abuse can destory your mental health and brain im a firm believer in recovery aswell during my peak use i did notice my cognitive decline was steep but after been clean for most of 2020 from mdma i have noticed a huge rebound in recovery of my ability to process information and recall memory again. During peak use at weekly i could not even remember peoples faces that i would meet regulars in the clubs they all knew me but i was so fried i could only just piece together that i had meet them before.
Some points on this...
Def agree. The magic stuff, the comedown is so smooth, dont know if you can really even call it a comedown, its like, still rolling to a soft landing.

The medium stuff still gets me the magic feeling too, its just that everytime, at the 2hr marker of taking it, there is this massive drop and you want to take more.

Jaw clenching for me has just not been an issue anymore...it seems like just something learned to avoid. Gum im sure helps.

Brain recovery i totally agree with. The brain is so powerful in healing itself, of course you do have to wonder if that ability will also decline with age, but my brain has definitely come a very long ways from the post college rolling period and hasnt negatively impacted my life per se...i mean who knows, maybe it had and my life should be better, but im happy with where i am and would likely make the tradeoff after the fact.

With respects to memory, i do wonder to what point you can attribute it to mdma use, vs just natural decline, vs the propensity to notice more because of the drug use somehow.

Anyhow. Just seems strange that the cleanest comedown product and cleanest feeling product can give the worst and most noticeable after effects on memory...
 

TripSitterNZ

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There are also some folk who literally rolled themselves to mental retardation over a lifetime just have to look at hamilton morris episode where that chemist steve gill just look at his wife a lifetime of drug use and heavy mdma really did burn them out in the end. Which is why i wanted to stop before i truly had no way back. Over 150 rolls in my lifetime addiction to mdma is a hellish drug to abuse like i did but it holds a special place and is important that the youth get access to high quality mdma as its a holy sacrament on par with any other psychedelic sacrament.
 

indigoaura

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With respects to memory, i do wonder to what point you can attribute it to mdma use, vs just natural decline, vs the propensity to notice more because of the drug use somehow.

I don't feel like I ever abused MDMA, although I certainly used it a lot, once a month for about a decade. I am a bit forgetful and spacey, but my biological sister is every bit as forgetful and spaced out as I am. She has lived a squeaky clean, Christian life with no drinking or drugs, but we both have this semi-ADD quality where we walk into a room and forget what we are doing and why we got up in the first place.

I would be inclined to attribute the short term memory deficits to the drug use if it wasn't for my sister having the exact same issues. It honestly seems like its just how we are wired.

As for the comedowns...

It has been a long time since I had proper, magic MDMA, but I remember being wrecked on the comedown. This meh shit just gives me stomach issues and then I am fine. It is so weird.

Here is an oddity for you...gluten will exacerbate my short term memory issues to the point that I can barely communicate. It makes me so spaced out that I will stop making sense when I talk. I've been gluten free for over a decade now, and I feel like I have worse issues from eating gluten than eating drugs. Anyone who is struggling with feeling spacey or out of it ought to try a week or so gluten and yeast free and see what happens. It makes a huge difference.
 
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