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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

G_Chem

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
2,895
In the UK you can buy that gram for close to the price of the US point, which I think has a strong impact on the usage patterns. The change in UK prices and availability is been pretty incredible within the past 10 years, I've talked about it before:

Pill dosage increases mean nothing when the effects are barely increased relatively... I think it’s much better to look at relative purity of MDMA, in which case purity of loose MDMA crystal has gone down. In 00‘S while harder to actually find “legit” MDMA, when found was much better purity cuz most of it was still going into presses and there was no need to leave impurities to bulk up the weight.

Also prices haven’t changed that much in the U.K., they’ve always been very cheap there relative to the US.

You’ve talked about a lot of things lol doesn’t mean your right.

-GC
 

Negi

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Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Messages
239
I think it’s much better to look at relative purity of MDMA, in which case purity of loose MDMA crystal has gone down. In 00‘S while harder to actually find “legit” MDMA, when found was much better purity cuz most of it was still going into presses and there was no need to leave impurities to bulk up the weight.
So you think that the higher doses of crystalline MDMA used in the UK are simply because there is less MDMA in the product they are taking?
 

Negi

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Messages
239
Found some data about it: https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/data/stats2020/ppp


(mean of all the values)

Doesn't seem that different from the rest of Europe. If you have data that shows otherwise, let me know.
 

indigoaura

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
1,377
We've really gone round and round with the issue of whether the increase in dosage is legitimate and/or relevant. Bottom line is that the product should, at some point, produce the effects of MDMA.

If a pill like this one contains 254 mg of MDMA, then eating half of it should make you roll. Eating all of it should REALLY make you roll. https://www.drugsdata.org/view.php?id=9330

Almost every published research article talks about 120 or 125 mg of MDMA as the ideal dosage. There is no reason why 125 mg of MDMA should produce a subpar experience unless the purity of the product is so low that taking 125 mg is not enough. If that is the case, then taking more should correct the problem, but it doesn't.
 

indigoaura

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Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
1,377
That's why it has the breakline on the back. Reading reports lots of people take the 200mg+ pills as halves, using the second half as a redose to extend the roll (or saving it for later).

I am not getting your point. I specifically acknowledged that the pill could be halved and that should be enough to still make you roll based on the dosage.

My point is that whatever the reason for the change in milligram dosage of pills, the bottom line is that once you cross a certain milligram threshold YOU SHOULD ROLL. If you are not rolling after you eat two of these 250+ mg pills, what is going on?
 

indigoaura

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Jan 4, 2009
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1,377
Only magic can make you happy and dance like this, i cant see it anywhere across Europe these days.

Yeah, this is basically what all the house parties and concerts looked like in my area circa 1999-2002. Check the jaws and the eyes. Also, people rolling around on the floor, in piles, losing clothes, stepping outside their typical sexual/gender preferences etc.

People were hesitant to take MDMA in public due to how obvious it was that you were high. Now, there are really no visual tells that anything is off.

Negi, I mean no disrespect, but I am curious how old you are. Were you circulating this type of scene in the late 90s early 00s? Have you had the experience of going to events like this with this vibe?

If it is not something that you experienced, then it is very hard to explain. I think the difference in the "vibe" that is created between magic MDMA and subpar MDMA is something better understood if you experienced that dichotomy in a direct way.
 

Negi

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Mar 7, 2015
Messages
239
If you want people who are high to the point that they are jerking around with a wandering jaw, you can certainly still find that today: https://www.youtube.com/c/RoryStuff/videos

But no, I wasn't 17 back in 1999, so I haven't experienced that exact style of event during the prime of my youth. One thing that stands out to me from the video is the density of (apparent) MDMA users at one event. I don't think you see that these days for a variety of reasons (the RAVE act/crackhouse laws, mainstreaming of electronic music, the cyclical nature of drug use). If MDMA is the hot new drug in an age group and 70% of people at an event are on it, I would be amazed if that didn't produce a very different vibe than an event where ~20% of people are on it and the rest are drinking alcohol (maybe with a bit of cocaine or ketamine).
 
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indigoaura

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Jan 4, 2009
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If you want people who are high to the point that they are jerking around with a wandering jaw, you can certainly still find that today: https://www.youtube.com/c/RoryStuff/videos

But no, I wasn't 17 back in 1999, so I haven't experienced that exact style of event during the prime of my youth. One thing that stands out to me from the video is the density of (apparent) MDMA users at one event. I don't think you see that these days for a variety of reasons (the RAVE act/crackhouse laws, mainstreaming of electronic music, the cyclical nature of drug use). If MDMA is the hot new drug in an age group and 70% of people at an event are on it, I would be amazed if that didn't produce a very different vibe than an event where ~20% of people are on it and the rest are drinking alcohol (maybe with a bit of cocaine or ketamine).

You are forgetting that many people are basing observations on house parties, not on mainstream events.

You are right that it is a better vibe when everyone at a party is on E, but even if only a handful of people chose to participate (something that happened then and now), on quality ecstasy the experience would be good. The people on E would create their own mini-vibe within the party.

Five people at a party (experienced and new users) took E in 2000 and all ended up wide eyed, dancing, rubbing, and elated. Sample submitted to a lab and is MDMA.
Five people at a party (experienced and new users) take E in 2020 and no one can tell they are rolling, not even the people who took the E. Sample submitted to a lab and is MDMA.

Something does not add up.

I am going back and re-reading the thread, and really, @Le Junk said it all within the first few pages. He is just fortunate enough to still have access to a constant supply of quality MDMA, while others in the thread are not that connected.
 

indigoaura

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Jan 4, 2009
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1,377
Maybe we do need to find a private lab with a robust privacy policy. Get a quote for a project that would run NMR, GCMS, and HPLC on multiple samples. If there is a difference, that should uncover it.
 

Observer01

Greenlighter
Joined
Aug 24, 2020
Messages
8
Just in an attempt to provide an alternate viewpoint once again.

To be clear, this is academic for me. I do not know the truth. I have my opinions, but that is it. This is my attempt to further the discussion by providing a different perspective, which I believe is healthy.

Everyone here seems to put a lot of importance on the information provided by @LeJunk . In fact, 6000 plus posts stem from it. His experience is often brought up as a point to invalidate someone's argument when they say the MDMA today is the same as 30 years ago.

I am most surely not saying he is being untruthful, as I have no way of knowing that. But it's important to remember that much of the basis of this entire thread relies heavily on the assumption that this person has had the same, consistent source of MDMA going back to 1985, and that is different from modern MDMA.

While perusing other forums on here, I found a post in the cocaine section where Le Junk is telling other posters how the Cocaine today is vastly different from Coke 30 years ago. Sound familiar?

@LeJunk....question, feel free to ignore. Are you operating with the same large stash from over 30 years ago? Or is your source still producing the same product that you continually purchase over and over again?
 

indigoaura

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
1,377
Just in an attempt to provide an alternate viewpoint once again.

To be clear, this is academic for me. I do not know the truth. I have my opinions, but that is it. This is my attempt to further the discussion by providing a different perspective, which I believe is healthy.

Everyone here seems to put a lot of importance on the information provided by @LeJunk . In fact, 6000 plus posts stem from it. His experience is often brought up as a point to invalidate someone's argument when they say the MDMA today is the same as 30 years ago.

I am most surely not saying he is being untruthful, as I have no way of knowing that. But it's important to remember that much of the basis of this entire thread relies heavily on the assumption that this person has had the same, consistent source of MDMA going back to 1985, and that is different from modern MDMA.

While perusing other forums on here, I found a post in the cocaine section where Le Junk is telling other posters how the Cocaine today is vastly different from Coke 30 years ago. Sound familiar?

@LeJunk....question, feel free to ignore. Are you operating with the same large stash from over 30 years ago? Or is your source still producing the same product that you continually purchase over and over again?

I don't want to be rude. I appreciate people who come and offer a different perspective, I genuinely do.

However, in the early posts, Le Junk discussed the cocaine issue as well as his source and the answer to your questions. If you read maybe the first 5 pages of this thread, you will see all of this discussed.

For the people who have been in the thread for years and have read all 306 pages of posts in full, it can be frustrating when new contributors come in and comment in ways that make it seem like they are not familiar with the thread and the breadth of things that have been discussed and shared already. I realize it is an unwieldy thread and difficult to peruse, but still.

Le Junk is not the only person who has come into the thread and commented. I feel strongly that people should be taken at face value when they share their experiences in the thread.

There are multiple posters who have had access to typical MDMA and subpar MDMA and have had both tested with a lab. @Hilopsilo is one of those posters. Lab reported each sample as MDMA. He had an experience where a whole group of people found one sample to be subpar and another sample to be traditional in effect.

Another poster introduced his wife to MDMA (she had never used before), and they both had magical rolls until their local supplier vanished. They began ordering from other sources and never found a similar experience. One brand new user, one experienced user, but same end result.

It is not "a small number of folks on here grasping at straws." There are large numbers who have shared their experiences and then never posted again. Some of us are just more committed to remaining active in the thread than others.

I am going back through and making a list to better understand the total number of "meh" reports in the thread. I will post the data when I have it.
 

indigoaura

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
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1,377
@Negi and @Observer01

I would like to know both of your histories. Most people have been pretty transparent about their history for the thread.

Do you both use MDMA?
How long have you used MDMA?
How frequently?
If you do not use MDMA, what is your interest in the thread?
If you do use MDMA, what have your own experiences with the product been like? What range of effects have you experienced?
In general, where are you located (just a country, no specifics)?
 

Observer01

Greenlighter
Joined
Aug 24, 2020
Messages
8
Funny enough, I have provided this exact history in this thread. I know there are a lot of pages and you engage a lot @indigoaura, but surprisingly you were the one that asked me these questions prior. Here is what I provided maybe a month ago in italics. ( I wouldn't expect you to remember that, just pointing out that I have indeed provided this).

I am in the western USA, but seemingly have been able to source mostly good product through careful selection on the darkweb over the last ten years. Very early adopter of the technology back on the early silkroad days.

I will also add....I have never, not once, purchased the dutch "super" pills. Always powder MDMA. This is mostly due to the fact that I like to control my exact dosage.

Experienced roller. I am 35 now, and started in 2009. I have never "stopped", but am very very respectful of the drug. I am a working professional with a wife and 2 kids. My MDMA use is not known to many except close friends and my wife. With that said, my use is down to 2 x per year. Before that never more than 3-4 times a year. Guessing maybe 40-50 experiences total over 12 years. No binging. My personality is generally cautious regarding these things. I have experimented with single dosages between 120 to as high of a single dose at 220. I prefer 150 now. Typically redose with half of original dose at 1.5 hours.

My first experience in 2009, which is when a lot of folks started reporting bad MDMA, was the typical magical experience. All of the amazingness and self discovery that you would expect.

As someone who wouldn't know how to find a drug dealer if he was my next door neighbor, I was an early adopter of the darkweb and have been ordering product there since about 2012. I am very careful with my vendors and do lots of research as these experiences for me are few and far between. I do not want to waste them on bad product.

By around 2016 I noticed a slight change in the experiences. Not really product related, just that I was more accustomed to it. It was predictable. As corny as it may sound, I felt that I had learned much of what I could from MDMA by then. I had uncovered hidden traumas, addressed them, and was the better for it. Recently with only 2 x year, I still get a great experience from the substance. I don't feel tolerance. Is it like the first 5 times I did it? No. But the drug is doing what the drug does. I know where I am going and know what to expect. To this day, it is still my favorite substance, and I treasure those 2 x year experiences. These days, it is more of a 4 hour break from daily life than anything else. It is a mini vacation of the mind. It is just more of a well worn path then the first few times and I can predict the timeline. I know the come up, the peak, the comedown, and how I will feel at each step along the way.

I have had batches across the years that are not as good as others. And 1 or 2 that were completely bunk.
 

indigoaura

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Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
1,377
I apologize, @Observer01. Now that I see your post, I remember it. I think I had you confused with another poster. I will go back and read through our exchange, because I probably already asked you all the follow up questions I want to ask you now. :D
 

indigoaura

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Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
1,377
Would this purchase be enough to settle the isomer issue?


Would this allow me to check the isomers on all my samples from this time forward?
 
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