What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[ThreePointCircle]

You do realize brain damage occurs in many different ways depending on what areas are effected, it wouldn’t effect your ability to compute math equations and looking at the research only heavy users really “feel” much.

From my research toxicity from MDMA mainly shows as tolerance to subsequent doses... In fact this is one way they judge if toxicity has occurred in some research articles. This is also why I know I and a few of my close people haven’t occurred any damage as we still use the same dose we did many years ago with no loss of effects.

And not sure if the second post is directed at me but I have no problem rolling every time I do.. Like I said I’ve had maybe 3 meh experiences out of over 100. I also have a couple of buddies who roll with me that have been at it since the 90’s that never complain about thevproduct.

I, and others, are trying to offer any possible theory to better understand this but often if it doesn’t perfectly align with ones own views in this thread it’s written off. The simple facts are that it just doesn’t make sense how I can almost never encounter it after 15+yrs of use but others can’t find anything that works for them.

I’ve tried to be as open minded as possible during my (is it 4yrs now?) in this thread but when only a few of the individuals effected by this phenomenon seem open to new ideas and theories on the topic (you know who you are), it makes the whole process as fun as pulling teeth.

For gods sakes it took me years just to get people to finally move away from the isomer thing and onto the more likely culprit, impurities.

Fair enough, and I'm not trying to have a go. But I also get a bit annoyed when people start saying the problem is me when there's so many consistent reports of a problem with xtc that quantitatively and qualitatively gel. Hey, maybe I have brain damage, but I really don't think so. Those receptors must be sitting there for more than getting a good experience from MDMA. They must have some normal function which would be impaired or altered had they been seriously damaged.

I suspect the reason you don't come across meh very much is that you source locally. I only source DM with uk or European vendors.

I suppose what I'm saying is that if this thread is about what is the problem with xtc then great, but if it becomes what is the problem with me then I get a little bit offended.

Again I believe ya’ll but it’s becoming obvious that this topic is going nowhere until an actual lab does some research into this very phenomenon. There’s too much disagreement on what’s what to make heads or tails of anything.

I agree.

 

[indigoaura]

I have often wondered whether my years of taking Meh product caused some kind of build up/tolerance/damage etc. I know that the product I was taking for many years was impure and had synthesis byproducts in it, because that was confirmed by a lab. I have no idea what the long term effects of those synth byproducts may have been.

And actually, there was one memorably, horrifically, bad experience with a meh product that sent my partner off into his negative spiral and left me unusually sick. Who knows what was in that meh batch (and actually, now that I think about it, I still have one of those pills set aside somewhere to send to a lab).

But, as Threepointcircle observed, I do not note any signs of significant damage in my day to day life other than short term memory issues. However, to be fair, my biological sister also has serious issues of this nature, and she has lived a squeaky clean life with no drug or alcohol use. Anything going on with me would be significantly below the surface, as I have maintained a successful professional life, advanced degrees, etc.

If it is any comfort, the Pfifl paper specifically talks about toxicity and hypothesizes that blocking MAO transporters actually blocks neuro-toxic effects, due to limiting neurotransmitter activity. However, the paper about Duloxetine's interactions pointed out that despite the transporter activity being blocked, blood levels of MDMA were very high. To me, this shows that although the neurological impact may be lessened, other physical systems such as the liver may still be unusually taxed. This could explain the shift in the "comedown" and why it is more of a hangover effect (nausea, dizziness) than a psychological one. The transporter blockage kept the brain safe from the high doses, but did nothing to protect the liver, kidneys etc.

Link - https://sci-hub.st/http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/314/1/346.short
Link - https://sci-hub.st/https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0036476

I am personally wondering if the issue is genetic predisposition related to transporter activity. Some people will have genetic mutations that increase or decrease transporter availability/activity. If a synthesis byproduct is present in high enough concentrations to block, say, 100 transporters (just a random number, not meant to be realistic), then a person with only 90 transporters would be completely cut off from the MDMA experience. However, a person with 200 transporters would still have an additional 100 transporters open for MDMA to take effect.

I have not done enough research on this to really see if this theory is sound, but it seems plausible to me. This goes back to the idea that some people are more sensitive to the byproducts and impurities than other people, and opens the door up to why they may have a "meh" experience while their buddy gets the magic (as in the reddit anecdote that Negi found).

 

[Negi]

Not too much to add, it's just I have a great quote about detecting "damage". You can't "feel" neurotoxicity.

One of the most frightening things about the human brain is how poorly it gauges its own functioning. Things quickly become complicated when you attempt to measure the performance of an instrument with the instrument performing the measurement. In 1969 a Dutch psychiatrist named Herman M. van Praag conducted a series of experiments on depressed patients with 4-chloroamphetamine, a new drug that possessed a significant therapeutic effect and was tolerated excellently; not a single patient complained of side effects. Though Praag discontinued his work in the mid- ’70s, 4-chloroamphetamine is still used widely today, not as an antidepressant but as a neurotoxin for selective depletion and destruction of serotonergic neurons in experimental animals. The point being that humans cannot necessarily feel neurological changes. Many disorders of the brain are accompanied by a commensurate inability to perceive the disorder. The later stages of Alzheimer’s, for example, are characterized by memory loss so severe that the deficits are forgotten.

 

[NewTopic]

Yep, the top photo is exactly what my pupils look like every time I do my MDMA. Every single time without fail. If the pupils do not look like this, the MDMA you’re doing is modern day MehDMA. You will want to file for a refund at that point

This is a collection of people including me I have photo'd while on MDMA back in 2014.

The MDMA in 2014

The eyes

While this was in 2018 and the one above 2014 for comparison.

Also the MDMA in this photo was in Amsterdam and looked to be of high quality but it produced the effects of the high above and was the meh mdma feeling.

I took a year break from MDMA recently after a very bad experience with meh mdma which took months to recover, I suffered panic attacks throughout most nights and after that year break I took MDMA again in 0.1g and it lasted a solid 6 hours. It was probably the closest ive felt to the old days in a long time , now another year has passed and ill be doing more in the coming months. Ill let you know how it goes.

 

[user666]

This is a collection of people including me I have photo'd while on MDMA back in 2014.

The eyes

While this was in 2018 and the one above 2014 for comparison.

The pupil dilation percentage (top-to-bottom photo)

62%
64%
63%
66%
53%

 

[Negi]

This is a collection of people including me I have photo'd while on MDMA back in 2014.

Where did the two experiences (2014 and 2018) fall on meh vs magic?

 

[NewTopic]

Where did the two experiences (2014 and 2018) fall on meh vs magic?

2014 was the last year I remember it being at its peak with the magic feeling.

Here and there ill get a good batch which will surprise me but it doesn't have that super lovey dovey feeling like back then. I assumed it was due to change in precursors / methods when Safrole was dryed up.

 

[indigoaura]

@NewTopic I had some MDMA in 2013 that looked just like that baggie you posted a pic of. It was good. Prob the best stuff I had since 2005.

 

[user666]

Watch this if you used these DNM vendors.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

Watch this if you used these DNM vendors.

6.5 million dollars and 274 kg of drugs god LE likes to hype themselves thats literally nothing.

 

[user666]

6.5 million dollars and 274 kg of drugs god LE likes to hype themselves thats literally nothing.

It is something if you used one of these vendors or compromised markets.

Also, it is something if there is some kind of unknown vulnerability in TOR/TorBrowser, end2end encryption or cryptocurrency, which allowed them to deanonymize the participants.

 

[indigoaura]

Watch this if you used these DNM vendors.

I'm watching now. These hypocrites really piss me off. I say all of this as someone who lost a family member to an unintentional fentanyl overdose. These people are not dying because drugs exist. They are dying because drugs are illegal. If products were available safely and in known purities and dosages, many of these deaths would not occur. Yet, they make it out like the only way to address the issue is through criminalizing the drug user. It is all bullshit. Sorry, I know this is off topic, but the asshat in the video is really pissing me off.

If drug addiction was treated like a health and psychological concern rather than a criminal concern, people could seek help without fear.
If drugs were legalized and regulated, there would be no opportunity for drug "kingpins" to grab power in cyberspace.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

BTC is always deanonymize, OPsec isn't a hard thing to do but yet countless fools still will not encrypt their address on the darknet thus leading to their arrests. Tracing fentanyl shipments from china leading to these groups isn't some cutting edge technology just ordinary work at customs and various LE. There are two types of criminals in the world stupid ones and smart ones who live their entire life without getting caught due to staying on top of their game and security. Alphabay literally had his same email and username linked to his LinkedIn and a unencrypted laptop. So alot of these markets are literally run by idiots who coded up a basic shopping market that had zero security. All those people caught from previous marketplaces had no encryption or were not using PGP and had their details all around and terrible opsec around crypto

 

[indigoaura]

It is something if you used one of these vendors or compromised markets.

Also, it is something if there is some kind of unknown vulnerability in TOR/TorBrowser, end2end encryption or cryptocurrency, which allowed them to deanonymize the participants.

I have personally never bought anything on the DW, and never had any crypto currency. I did have an account on one of the sites they mentioned, and I browsed. I probably messaged a few vendors. I would guess that law enforcement is more concerned with vendors than small time buyers anyway. Surely they do not have the manpower to go after everyone who ever made a purchase.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

its not illegal to buy drugs anyway if you have nothing on you when they search your home they can't do shit but tell you to not buy drugs again at least that is the case in most countries idk how america is.

 

[AutoTripper]

its not illegal to buy drugs anyway if you have nothing on you when they search your home they can't do shit but tell you to not buy drugs again at least that is the case in most countries idk how america is.

I read a few reports on Reddit re intercepted Darkweb orders, either a letter, one account of a visit from some shady, cagey detectives, like a dishonest, intimidation interrogation (I love using lots of long words in a row lol!) outside property I think, certainly no searching involved then they left.

I assumed it would be the big time, regular buyers when they occasiinally bust those markets and seize information, addresses....that they identify likely dealers for such, more invasive procedures.

But I disclaim- I know zero on this, no experience except my recent UK Border Force letter notice of seizure of 50 1cP- LSD blotters from Holland, liable to forfeiture unless I wish to challenge it in court.

Brexit means EU orders go through Border force now and well, Amsterdam is pretty suspect haha!

 

[killafoo]

The lost magic thing is complete bollocks. I started taking pills again from around 2011 after not taking any mdma for five or six years. Between 2011 and 2013 I was trying various pills (well known stamps, from different producers) and some of these pills were great, just like the stuff I was taking in early 2000s, but there were a fair few (well known stamps that were being raved about online) that I found to be completely lacklustre and not comparable to any mdma experience I'd had before. Why, after years of not taking mdma, would some producers pills feel like the old magic, and others be absolute shite? And since 2013 most of the pills I've tried have been utter bollocks. There was a massive seizure of mdma precursor in Europe in 2013 I think it was by LE, tonnes of the stuff, and that's when mdma in Europe turned shit.

 

[user666]

These people are not <getting sick> and dying because drugs exist. They are <sick and> dying because drugs are illegal. If products were available safely and in known purities and dosages, many of these deaths would not occur. Yet, they make it out like the only way to address the issue is through criminalizing the drug user. It is all bullshit.

My thoughts exactly

 

[G_Chem]

New batch is in..

Nearly clear shards which break into completely clear smaller crystals, a light smell of safrole upon cracking open the shard.

Not wanting to roll too hard last night while hanging with my buddy he decided to take 82mg while I just ate a 5mg or so of 5-MAPB.

Even at 80mg his pupils were very large... He was obviously rolling even at this amount and at one point commented “this feels like an average 150mg but without the edginess..”

This is someone who’s abused MDMA a lot in the past although hasn’t lost the magic yet.

IMO good product should have pupils pretty large even at small doses under 100mg.

-GC

 

[user666]

IMO good product should have pupils pretty large even at small doses under 100mg.

I concur.
You are one of the most concrete posters in this thread. Did you take down his dilation ratio in controlled lighting conditions, which I mentioned before ?
What is his body mass ?