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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

draculic acid69

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Joined
Aug 22, 2019
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Yes, but the PMK impurities derived from dirty Safrole will be different from PMK impurities derived from incompletely converted PMK Glycidate or failure to remove the Glycidate moiety after the conversion.
Obviously, different set of impurities will have different effects. It is quite possible, that the set of impurites from one precursor is worse than from the other.

In case of PMK derived from pure PMK Glycidate, we can have two sources of MDMA impurities:
a) from the unconverted precursor itself
b) from the Glycidate moiety remaining after its succesful conversion to PMK.
Which is why we need to find out if meh is made with one or more methods
 

user666

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Messages
184
Possible but meh wasn't a problem until recently and safrole has always been purified before making it into the ketone so unless someone has just started leaving out crucial purification steps it shouldn't be an issue.
I agree. Also I think that, the natural Safrole in Sassafras oil is so pungent and looks so dark and dirty that it motivates even the amateur chemist to purify it.

On the other hand, we have this mystery description of this new and beautiful one-pot synth form PMK Glycidate that does not even mention any purification.

Quote from: https://mixmag.net/feature/we-went-undercover-in-a-chinese-mdma-factory

Our lab switched [in 2010] to ethyl PMK-glycidate as a precursor. This was unwatched, and we were able to source it from China at a very competitive price,” he said.

He revealed the details of his synthesis to me, and I verified the feasibility of the method with an equally expert but legitimate chemist. It wasn’t just feasible, he told me, it was beautiful.
It achieves complex molecular changes in a single concerted step, almost like watching a solar system of planets align. "Elegant" is a good word for it, too. It’s the sort of thing that anyone (any organic chemist) could have come up with once it’s explained to you, but really, the first person to come up with this [method] had quite a stroke of inspiration
PMK Glycidate looks white and clean like Philadelphia cheese and its sellers often advertise it as "pure". That does not exacly scream "purify me!" like the dark stinky Sassafras oil.
 
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G_Chem

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Apr 17, 2015
Messages
2,493
I’d like to also mention we shouldn’t really trust Vash’s word regarding “meh” safrole product. It could have happened but he was so untrustworthy that unfortunately we should probably throw the baby out with the bath water in this situation. We just don’t know what he did to that baby, ya know?

It sucks, and I do believe it’s possible to produce meh product from safrole, but yea it is what is.

In regards to the MBDB, my thoughts actually more aim towards improper analysis. The chances of it being synthesized much these days are lower than a lab screw up IMO.

So dimers fluoresce and true MDMA don’t huh? Time to pull out the black light?

-GC
 

user666

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Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Messages
184
So dimers fluoresce and true MDMA don’t huh?
...or absorb UV like Dibenzylideneacetone (which is used in sun screens. btw).
It is also possible that this response extends to longer wavelengths (e.g. blue light) because the Ethylbenzodioxole "wings" of these dimers are 21% more massive than the Propenylbenzene "wings" of Dibenzylideneacetone ...so they "flap" slower (...OTOH they are shorter and stiffer, which speeds up the vibration).


 
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draculic acid69

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Aug 22, 2019
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...or absorb UV like Dibenzylideneacetone (which is used in sun screens. btw).
It is also possible that this response extends to longer wavelengths (e.g. blue light) because the Ethylbenzodioxole "wings" of these dimers are 21% more massive than the Propenylbenzene "wings" of Dibenzylideneacetone ...so they "flap" slower (...OTOH they are shorter).


One would think that simple fractional distillation will seperate the higher boiling dimers from the mdma.if there in the product it's probably because simple purification process are being left out
 

vecktor

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Jan 17, 2006
Messages
2,080
...or absorb UV like Dibenzylideneacetone .
It is also possible that this response extends to longer wavelengths (e.g. blue light) because the "wings" of the benzodioxole dimers are more massive and vibrate slower than Dibenzylideneacetone (they are shorther, though).
The size of the wings are irrelevant, as is vibration of the structures, things fluoresce when electrons absorb light then return to ground state losing excess energy as light. Electrons are small, so they can absorb and be pumped only by short wavelength they then return to ground state emitting light after a delay, almost always of a longer wavelength which is called fluorescence. The band gap is high energy which needs high energy photons, quantum physics and all.

Dibenzylidene acetone has multiple double bonds that are conjugated together so instead of absorbing at 250nm it absorbs at longer wavelengths (blue), making it yellow. this down shift of absorbance due to conjugation is why a bunch of double bonds conjugated together makes carrots orange, by absorbing blue instead of UV.

MDMA and most benzodioxoles are fluorescent absorbing short UV and emitting longer UV, I can't remember the exact frequencies somewhere around 270nm, however this is not super useful for humans who can't see it, but birds and probably deer can see it. The dimers will absorb UV more strongly molecule for molecule because they have more stuff to absorb UV. But the blacklight idea is totally unproven and highly unlikely to work because of the physics.

Vibration and bending of big things like benzene rings happens in the mid and near IR spectrum a long way in energy and wavelength from normal fluorescence which is visible and UV.

In case of PMK derived from pure PMK Glycidate, we can have two sources of MDMA impurities:
a) from the unconverted precursor itself
b) from the Glycidate moiety remaining after its successful conversion to PMK.
can you write that in a way that I can understand what you are actually trying to say? because I really don't understand the points.

it doesn't matter if the PMK glycidate is pure so long as the PMK made from it is pure,
It doesn't matter if the PMK is impure so long as the MDMA made from it is pure.
There is not a glycidate moety (I guess you mean epoxy carboxylate) that remains after successful conversion to PMK, by definition. The epoxy ring opens, the carboxylic acid leaves as water and CO2 leaving PMK. The ethanol or methanol has already been chopped of the ester.

The acrylamide hypothesis seems bullshit, there is no conceivable chemistry that can rip PMK glycidate apart in a way that makes acrylamide and even if it could the amount of acrylamide that could be present is tiny probably roughly the same as a BBQ meat or French Fries where it comes from over heating cooking oils.

I have a strong suspicion where the problem lies and that GC-MS of known Meh and Magic will see the impurities by comparing the two, so we wait for the data.

no largescale commercial producer is likely to run high vacuum fractional distillation of MDMA, period.
 

user666

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Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Messages
184
The size of the wings are irrelevant, as is vibration of the structures,
Vibration and bending of big things like benzene rings happens in the mid and near IR spectrum
OK, so I stand corrected on the wavelength of this vibration.

things fluoresce when electrons absorb light then return to ground state losing excess energy as light. Electrons are small, so they can absorb and be pumped only by short wavelength they then return to ground state emitting light after a delay, almost always of a longer wavelength which is called fluorescence.
Yes, fluorescence is a wavelength conversion process. What about absorption at UV wavelengths ?

Can you write that in a way that I can understand what you are actually trying to say? because I really don't understand the points.
I'll try. Remember, I am not a Pro like you. I am still learning, which is not made any easier by your insufficiently frequent admonishments.
a) The unconverted PMK Glycidate (even if pure) is not removed and gets amidated and its epoxide ring becomes opened with subsequent reaction with Methylamine .
b) The epoxide carboxylate becomes disconnected from PMK but it remains in the mixture with PMK. It remains intact (its epoxide ring doesn't get opened until much later in the synth, or not at all). The carboxylate group does not leave but remains attached to the epoxide, and much much later in the synth it gets converted to something nasty, e.g. by the amination process.

I have a strong suspicion where the problem lies and that GC-MS of known Meh and Magic will see the impurities by comparing the two, so we wait for the data.
Do you have access to both Meh and Magic that have been tested on virgin subjects ?
 
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vecktor

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OK, so I stand corrected on the wavelength of this vibration.


Yes, fluorescence is a wavelength conversion process. What about absorption at UV wavelengths ?
UV is just short wavelength light, the shorter the wavelength, the higher the frequency and the higher the energy of each photon. In quantum physics photons are essentially quantized energy packets,
Bouncing electrons into higher energy levels is also quantized and there are no half stages or intermediate units in the absorbtion energy levels, like cent coins or magic beans. The light energy has to match the excitation energy needed to be absorbed. Any light that has insufficient energy (long wavelength) or if the light has too much energy (short wavelength) cannot do it, no matter how intense that light, it simply cannot bounce the electron into a higher energy state. This is a very important concept to understand.

If the light does have the correct energy and is absorbed then you get an excited electron which then falls back to ground state one way or another. If there is a fluorescent pathway then the light gets absorbed and re-radiated at lower frequencies. purple blue green for example. If there is not a fluorescent pathway or other pathways predominate then the absorbed light energy either breaks bonds or is lost ultimately as heat without emitting light. Of course if the light is not absorbed then the material is transparent.
Benzene rings in general absorb UV, because effectively they are rings of conjugated double bonds.


I'll try. Remember, I am not a Pro like you. I am still learning, which is not made any easier by your insufficiently frequent admonishments.
a) the unconverted PMK Glycidate (even if pure) is not removed and gets amidated and its epoxide ring becomes opened with subsequent reaction with Methylamine .
b) The epoxide carboxylate becomes disconnected from PMK but it remains in the mixture with PMK. It remains intact (its epoxide ring doesn't get opened until much later in the synth, or not at all). The carboxylate group does not leave but remains attached to the epoxide, and much much later in the synth it gets converted to something nasty, e.g. by the amination process.
I am not admonishing you at all but the idea is that people communicate their thoughts clearly.

I think the misunderstanding is that you think think PMK glycidate is a theoretical construct of PMK and glycidate?

it isn't it, is a completely different molecule which can rearrange to give PMK, which is why it is called PMK glycidate or PMK glycidic ester or more correctly,
Ethyl 3‐(1,3‐benzodioxol‐5‐yl)‐2‐methyloxirane‐2‐carboxylate or
Ethyl 3-(3',4'-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-methyloxirane carboxylate.

The rearrangement of this molecule to PMK is in several steps,
1 the cleavage of the alcohol from the ester (acid or base catalysed) the alcohol is methanol or ethanol depending on whether the PMK glycidate is ethyl PMK glycidate or methyl PMK glycidate
2 The usually acid catalyzed opening of the epoxy ring and a cascade of reactions that then results in the carboxylic acid being lost as CO2 and the rearrangement of what is left to give PMK.

Do you have access to bot Meh and Magic that have been tested on virgin subjects ?
Meh Magic could be sourced, but won't be. I don't understand the importance of this idea about virgin subjects, (MDMA naive is a better term), but subjective data from drug naive, is no more useful than an experienced user.
To be absolutely clear I am not doing this research myself and am simply not interested in getting samples Meh Magic or otherwise, In case you missed it MDMA is schedule 1 drug requiring a ton of expensive and tedious licenses to work with. Earths' Drug Testing crew have the paperwork eventually they will get around to doing it, or give out the data for people to crowd source analyze. (they may have some issues though with the DEA doing this)

Doing free quality control for a bunch of clandestine manufacturers who will always just produce the minimum quality cheapest crap for users, where the majority of users simply don't care, appreciate or respect the material, is not really useful.
 

No_Comment

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 13, 2020
Messages
6
@PlayHard I don't think anyone can tell anything from photos really, as there is a pretty wide variation in reports of the appearance of magic/meh. However, that color and those rounded edges to the crystal look like meh product I have had. I know @G_Chem has speculated here before that a more jagged crystal edge may possibly indicate a better product. Hope that your experience is magic though!
Regarding jagged edges... I doubt this is true because of you wash and recrystallise mdma many times over you end up with rhombus shaped crystals with completely straight edges.
 

anon65535

Greenlighter
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Messages
35
Can confirm that I washed and recrystallized MDMA in 0 ppm water and ended up with rhombus shaped crystals. Was definitely a hydrated state at that point, but I'm not going to melt it to find out which one.

Some of the best MDMA I had was via the methylamine route, which had that fishy smell. Sad I got rid of it because that stuff was really good. I can't say that the rest of the stuff I have is the "meh MDMA" that you guys talk about because the last time I used it I was pretty happy with the effects but I can distinctly remember a slight sedative effect. There was still that "window opening" effect once it kicks in and on an empty stomach, comeup was 30-40m. Can't say that sedative effect was more pronounced than other stuff I had, but I dunno. I haven't done MDMA in probably a year.

I have a few different samples, happy to offer up some pictures. I also have a black light if that helps. Got some washed stuff, got some unwashed stuff, got some black crystal canadian stuff and got the left shit after the wash that's dark brown. Got some clear MDA as well.

I feel like the only way to truly purify MDMA would be to do an A/B extraction of the salt to yield the freebase and then distill it. Unfortunately, that's above my skill and comfort level. Not something I would be interested in doing. Involves some watched chemicals and glassware. You would need to first extract the freebase, then get it up to the boiling point, collect just the freebase vapor and then recrystallize with DCM. However this beyond the scope of this forum and would best be discussed on the hive.

This is all assuming that whatever the potential contaminant is, does not have the same or close to the same boiling point as the 3,4-MDMA. Because if it does, you're pretty much fucked no matter what you do.
 

G_Chem

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Apr 17, 2015
Messages
2,493
Regarding jagged edges... I doubt this is true because of you wash and recrystallise mdma many times over you end up with rhombus shaped crystals with completely straight edges.
This is true, but we aren’t talking about multiple times re-x’ed product. We are talking about the 99% of product found on the street which is often fused HCl.

That said, if it’s really pure you’ll see some nice crystal formation here and there amongst the fused pile, hence why I tell people to still look for those signs of proper formation. (Which in the case of anhydrous as you said is orthorhombic, more parallelogram/diamond shaped when hydrated. Both formations can be present in the same batch.)

-GC
 

indigoaura

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Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
1,211
I apologize for the delay in getting my reports. My region is having ongoing COVID-19 issues. We are now heading towards a huge peak (ICU beds full, etc). It took me awhile to get the two Meh samples sent in, and then I was told there would be a delay in getting the reports due to the lab being overwhelmed with work.

International Energy Control has also offered to re-examine the sample I sent them before and provide reports. However, in order for me to send that sample, I have to physically go inside a post office, stand in line, and buy international postage. With the COVID situation what it is in Houston right now, I am just not willing to do that.

I have very low amounts of product to send in, and no ability to obtain more of sample 1. This is what I have:

Meh Sample 1: Analyzed by Drugs Data to be MDMA, MBDB, and MDA (This is the product that I had access to for a very lengthy period from 2006 onward. I have witnessed many people react to it, including MDMA naive, inexperienced, and experienced users). Consistently produces no eye dilation and a sedated effect. I was told that this sample was produced starting from safrole and washed with acetone. No smell. White powder. Interestingly, when I sent this sample in before (back in 2007) it did not show MBDB and showed 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-propanol.

Meh Sample 2
: Analyzed by Drugs Data to be MDMA and MDA. I only consumed this product once, because the side effects were very undesirable. I have witnessed several people use this product, including MDMA naive and experienced users. Does not produce eye dilation. Less sedated than sample 1, but not energetic either. Anti-social. Produces a lot of jaw clenching, but it feels more noticeable and annoying than with magic MDMA. Was told this product originated in Mexico. Has a safrole smell. Tan powder.

Meh Sample 3
: Analyzed by International Energy Control to be 80% MDMA. The least meh out of the three, some minimal traces of a typical MDMA experience. Does produce eye dilation with 200 mg +. Anti-social and sedated. (There was another user in this thread, @opposable-thumbs, who also tried this sample and concurred with everything I noted. He and his wife both tried it and found it lacking). Was told that this sample was made with safrole, washed with acetone, and re-crystalized. White powder, minimal odor.

All of these samples lack euphoria/love/pro-social/tactile enhancement/music enhancement. This is noted by more users than just me.
 

G_Chem

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Apr 17, 2015
Messages
2,493
I apologize for the delay in getting my reports. My region is having ongoing COVID-19 issues. We are now heading towards a huge peak (ICU beds full, etc). It took me awhile to get the two Meh samples sent in, and then I was told there would be a delay in getting the reports due to the lab being overwhelmed with work.

International Energy Control has also offered to re-examine the sample I sent them before and provide reports. However, in order for me to send that sample, I have to physically go inside a post office, stand in line, and buy international postage. With the COVID situation what it is in Houston right now, I am just not willing to do that.

I have very low amounts of product to send in, and no ability to obtain more of sample 1. This is what I have:

Meh Sample 1: Analyzed by Drugs Data to be MDMA, MBDB, and MDA (This is the product that I had access to for a very lengthy period from 2006 onward. I have witnessed many people react to it, including MDMA naive, inexperienced, and experienced users). Consistently produces no eye dilation and a sedated effect. I was told that this sample was produced starting from safrole and washed with acetone. No smell. White powder. Interestingly, when I sent this sample in before (back in 2007) it did not show MBDB and showed 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-propanol.

Meh Sample 2: Analyzed by Drugs Data to be MDMA and MDA. I only consumed this product once, because the side effects were very undesirable. I have witnessed several people use this product, including MDMA naive and experienced users. Does not produce eye dilation. Less sedated than sample 1, but not energetic either. Anti-social. Produces a lot of jaw clenching, but it feels more noticeable and annoying than with magic MDMA. Was told this product originated in Mexico. Has a safrole smell. Tan powder.

Meh Sample 3: Analyzed by International Energy Control to be 80% MDMA. The least meh out of the three, some minimal traces of a typical MDMA experience. Does produce eye dilation with 200 mg +. Anti-social and sedated. (There was another user in this thread, @opposable-thumbs, who also tried this sample and concurred with everything I noted. He and his wife both tried it and found it lacking). Was told that this sample was made with safrole, washed with acetone, and re-crystalized. White powder, minimal odor.

All of these samples lack euphoria/love/pro-social/tactile enhancement/music enhancement. This is noted by more users than just me.
So is Sample 1 really the same Sample from years back or just looks similar from the same connect? Just out of curiosity.

Completely understand the fear of going out, so is it really getting that bad again out by you? Fuck.. Are they shutting down or pushing forward? Have you guys really been hit hard yet or no? Sorry for the questions.

-GC
 

indigoaura

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Jan 4, 2009
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So is Sample 1 really the same Sample from years back or just looks similar from the same connect? Just out of curiosity.

Completely understand the fear of going out, so is it really getting that bad again out by you? Fuck.. Are they shutting down or pushing forward? Have you guys really been hit hard yet or no? Sorry for the questions.

-GC
So, the sample from 2007 and the sample I just sent in are from the same provider. After I sent in the sample in 2007, I showed the provider the result. At that time, he decided to implement multiple acetone washes to try to provide a cleaner product. After that, it was a whiter powder, but it had been a brown powder before. Are they the exact same batch? No. they are different batches from the same chemist.

As for how bad it is here...

We went from under 300 new cases per day to 2000 cases per day. Don't let that last number on the chart fool you, it is just the Sunday low number for the week. Sunday's always have low counts. We have an alert system in place and we are on red alert. This is worse than it has ever been here.
 

opposable-thumbs

Greenlighter
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
18
I apologize for the delay in getting my reports. My region is having ongoing COVID-19 issues. We are now heading towards a huge peak (ICU beds full, etc). It took me awhile to get the two Meh samples sent in, and then I was told there would be a delay in getting the reports due to the lab being overwhelmed with work.

International Energy Control has also offered to re-examine the sample I sent them before and provide reports. However, in order for me to send that sample, I have to physically go inside a post office, stand in line, and buy international postage. With the COVID situation what it is in Houston right now, I am just not willing to do that.

I have very low amounts of product to send in, and no ability to obtain more of sample 1. This is what I have:

Meh Sample 1: Analyzed by Drugs Data to be MDMA, MBDB, and MDA (This is the product that I had access to for a very lengthy period from 2006 onward. I have witnessed many people react to it, including MDMA naive, inexperienced, and experienced users). Consistently produces no eye dilation and a sedated effect. I was told that this sample was produced starting from safrole and washed with acetone. No smell. White powder. Interestingly, when I sent this sample in before (back in 2007) it did not show MBDB and showed 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-propanol.

Meh Sample 2: Analyzed by Drugs Data to be MDMA and MDA. I only consumed this product once, because the side effects were very undesirable. I have witnessed several people use this product, including MDMA naive and experienced users. Does not produce eye dilation. Less sedated than sample 1, but not energetic either. Anti-social. Produces a lot of jaw clenching, but it feels more noticeable and annoying than with magic MDMA. Was told this product originated in Mexico. Has a safrole smell. Tan powder.

Meh Sample 3: Analyzed by International Energy Control to be 80% MDMA. The least meh out of the three, some minimal traces of a typical MDMA experience. Does produce eye dilation with 200 mg +. Anti-social and sedated. (There was another user in this thread, @opposable-thumbs, who also tried this sample and concurred with everything I noted. He and his wife both tried it and found it lacking). Was told that this sample was made with safrole, washed with acetone, and re-crystalized. White powder, minimal odor.

All of these samples lack euphoria/love/pro-social/tactile enhancement/music enhancement. This is noted by more users than just me.
Yeah, Meh Sample 3 definitely left something to be desired.

On magic my wife turns into a sexual super freak. On that batch she basically just wanted to sit in my lap, make out and talk about having babies.
 

indigoaura

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
1,211
Maybe we need three categories. Magic MDMA, Meh-DMA, and Sexual-super-freak MDMA.

But, yeah, it is just a totally different vibe. A friend of mine described the old magic MDMA as one prolonged orgasm, and that was my experience too. The meh-DMA just does not have that quality. And while I've never found babies particularly appealing, the meh stuff does just create a lazy vibe where you can't be bothered to do much of anything.
 

RyybsNarcs

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Sep 30, 2019
Messages
11
Consumed one of those red-yellow Pirelli's about two weeks ago. Initial dose was about 3/5 of a pill and about a hour later took the rest, so about 170mg initial dose and 110mg redose (if we can trust the lab tests I saw on internet) which is a pretty high dose. I'm not very experienced with MDMA and have never felt confirmed MagicMDMA, but I have to say that it didn't feel very intense at any point. Some euphoria and empathy but no tactile enhancement or music appreciation. Duration was about 3 hours for the MDMA, took about 20mg of 2C-B at about 2 hours mark, and felt sober at 4 hours, with some comedown.

I'd say it is meh, even though it was my best roll so far. Duration was so short, and it even killed the 2C-B. I took about 100ug of LSD a day before this roll, so of course it might have something to do with 2C-B. I had six months break from MDMA before this roll, and never abused it so it should not be the problem.
 

SlowandFastandSlow

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Jan 21, 2020
Messages
78
Consumed one of those red-yellow Pirelli's about two weeks ago. Initial dose was about 3/5 of a pill and about a hour later took the rest, so about 170mg initial dose and 110mg redose (if we can trust the lab tests I saw on internet) which is a pretty high dose. I'm not very experienced with MDMA and have never felt confirmed MagicMDMA, but I have to say that it didn't feel very intense at any point. Some euphoria and empathy but no tactile enhancement or music appreciation. Duration was about 3 hours for the MDMA, took about 20mg of 2C-B at about 2 hours mark, and felt sober at 4 hours, with some comedown.

I'd say it is meh, even though it was my best roll so far. Duration was so short, and it even killed the 2C-B. I took about 100ug of LSD a day before this roll, so of course it might have something to do with 2C-B. I had six months break from MDMA before this roll, and never abused it so it should not be the problem.
The lack of music appreciation is a dead giveaway, proper stuff could have me skanking to Mozart 😂.

This conductor is going the fuck innnnnn! 😂
 

Kvitamine

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Jan 12, 2020
Messages
1
I already apogalize for my bad english, but here is some background story. I have tried MDMA 5 times in 2 years before this roll with doses 100mg-200mg so I havent abused it. I've had 1 great and 1ok and 3 meh experiences before this and never had confirmed "Magic mdma" but I am very interested about this thread and want to tell my experience with those red-yellow pirelli's. I consumed those pills with ryybsnarcs and few other friends. I took little bit over half pill for initial dose and rest after 1.5hour mark. Comeup was really, really smooth, everything was so calm, peaceful and I felt so clean for all the time, euphoria, music appreciation, music felt and sound so wonderful, sharp and alive. Tactile enchantment and empathy, i never felt so much empathy from previous rolls, it was so real, so natural empathy and love. It felt like I was in some kind of love story for a whole roll. When I held hands with my friend, it felt like we had some kind of spiritual bond. everything felt incredible.(vicks inhalers smell so wonderfull) I literally was rolling my eyes back of my skull for whole peak :D I would say that it was magical experience and i want to quote shulgin "i am complete" . But why would I have so great experience from same pills that ryybsnarcs had? I really cant even imagine how roll would be any better than this was. 2 days after roll i felt drained, and tired. But after those 2 days, I had nice afterglow for almost a week. I know you guys are much more experienced than me, so was my experience really "magic"? because i really think so
 

indigoaura

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Jan 4, 2009
Messages
1,211
So, @Kvitamine, you and @RyybsNarcs took the exact same pills and had two opposite experiences? If that is the case, I think this will be the first time in the last 260 pages two people have taken the same product and reported wide variation in the results.

1. Do either of you take any prescription meds or supplements?
2. Did either of you take anything (vitamins etc.) before the roll to pre-load?
3. When did each of you eat before the roll? What did you eat?
4. What was your mood prior to consuming?
5. Did either of you chew the pill, dissolve it, or otherwise alter it prior to swallowing?
6. Weight for each of you?
7. Were you both together in the same place when you rolled?

Possible explanations:
@RyybsNarcs has "lost the magic" but @Kvitamine has not
Expectation/suggestion caused two different experiences
Pills are unevenly mixed/packed, and pills are not exactly the same with the same mg dosage
Uneven contaminants in the pills
 
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