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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

G_Chem

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
1,336
^^Funny you say that. I was going to mention that the only time I’ve ever seen product of this purity off the DN, it was 2013 I believe and it was MDA. I also just finished it off on my last experience :/ (worth it though without a doubt). That year I saw a lot of high purity MDA and DMT.

This summer I will be on the hunt for some more crystal clear MDA.

-GC
 

F.U.B.A.R.

Moderator: BDD, OD, LAVA
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May 12, 2010
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15,422
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UK
So I gotta be quick but was scanning MDMA reddit when I found this picture of “Canadian MDMA.”


Notice how jagged the crystals are compared to blockiness of the last picture I shared, I’ve found product like this to be very good.

-GC
Looks very much like the stuff I was raving about on page 117.

That was DN sourced
 

G_Chem

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
1,336
^^^IMO yes MDA can be magic or meh, and in fact I wrote up a thread on it a long time ago (like 8yrs ago) on DF, it’s called like “Variations in batches of MDA” or something like that.

Back then I was just starting to get a grasp MDxx batch variation, and I made the argument that it was isomers by comparing experience reports to the different isomers. I still think it could be...

But it does appear that certain batches have a magic quality that others don’t.. That said it also seems that MDA is only available in areas where magic MDMA is accessible, leading me to believe the synthesis routes for magic MDMA and MDA are similar.

High quality crystals clear MDA like the picture I showed is an amazing substance, that when I have friends and family try it they don’t believe it’s even MDA mixed in with their dose. It’s highly euphoric and empathogenic, very chatting and lovey.

Impure shit sass/MDA is sedating/mongy, bland and boring, little to no euphoria sometimes even dysphoric, visuals/trippy aspect is different too. Overall a waste of good precursor IMO.

The stuff I just finished off was crystal clear with beautiful formed shards, but if you broke open a shard or bit into one you’d get that taste/smell of safrole.

That’s something I notice with all the good product, even stuff that looks insanely pure with very nice clear crystals, upon breaking open the crystal or biting into it at least the faintest hint of safrole is detected.

Safrole is very potent smelling/tasting even at minuscule amounts, I’ve had a single drop ruin an entire batch of hash oil many years ago when I played with various oils, my guess is that even if safrole was there in .1% amounts it’d still be detected by the human nose and taste.

I’ll be sure to continue to watch for that though. Up until the past 5yrs I couldn’t really detect safrole in any of the product I was taking but my nose was also destroyed for awhile from other drug abuse. I was eating stuff then that people were saying smelled sassy, so I’m sure some people can’t detect it even in appreciable amounts.

-GC
 

indigoaura

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
759
There's this forum here: https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/ which is a chemistry forum, not a la thehive, it is a legit chemistry discussion forum but with some very open minded and knowledgeable souls.
I guess that we may get some interesting feedbacks from them specially when the discussion isn't focused on the best synth but rather what could go wrong and why (in this case, the Meh product).
If any of you guys would like to prepare a post with the proper questions asked I'll be happy to post it there...
@mooka Maybe post something like this:

Hello Science Madness,

I have been in discussion with an international collaboration of individuals who have noticed significant variation between MDMA batches that have all tested as MDMA through GCMS lab analysis. These variations have been confirmed by multiple people and under a wide variety of circumstances. Variation includes lack of traditionally observable physical phenomena such as mydriasis, as well as a lack of traditional sensory enhancement and euphoria. Before you assume the answer is user tolerance, please note that the variation has also been noted in "virgin" users of MDMA. To simplify our discussion of this phenomena we have been calling traditional product with typical results "magic" and non-traditional product with muted results "meh."

Our own research has revealed a few possibilities for what may be occurring, but we would like to get some more scientific feedback.

Here are some of the research articles that we read while considering this issue:

This research article seems to indicate that there are structurally similar compounds that could masquerade as MDMA to GCMS testing: http://etd.auburn.edu/bitstream/handle/10415/1304/AWAD_TAMER_45.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

This article shows that some synthesis byproducts could have an impact on transporters and also on the effect of MDMA: https://sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/10.1124/jpet.105.084426

These articles discuss variations in synthesis methods, and how those variations produce different byproducts:
1. 2. 3.
Currently, it seems to us that variations in MDMA synthesis methods result in variations of product due to either a) presence of active impurities or b) substitution of structurally similar compounds. Is this probable? Would synthesis techniques result in enough product variation to alter the end user experience in a significant way? If so, since GCMS testing does not appear to be detecting what is occurring, any ideas for how to identify these impurities? Also, any theories on what these impurities could be (specifically)?

Thanks for your help!
Feel free to revise and edit as necessary.
 

Chonciceptor

Greenlighter
Joined
Jul 7, 2016
Messages
11
Hi everyone, so it’s been just over a year since my wife and I last used meh-mdma sourced from the DN. I said screw it and decided I would try buying pressed pills and see if there would be any difference, checkpoint orange Tesla’s, supposedly legit, have glitter and glow under blacklight. Will be sending them off to be tested in the near future and when we finally decide to take them I will write up a roll report!
 

indigoaura

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Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
759
20437

@G_Chem Does this look like the "right" kind of crystal? It has more of that blocky, rocky look than the jagged ones you posted.
 

indigoaura

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
759
Hi everyone, so it’s been just over a year since my wife and I last used meh-mdma sourced from the DN. I said screw it and decided I would try buying pressed pills and see if there would be any difference, checkpoint orange Tesla’s, supposedly legit, have glitter and glow under blacklight. Will be sending them off to be tested in the near future and when we finally decide to take them I will write up a roll report!
Hope it works for you! Let us know how it goes!
 

MountainTrails

Greenlighter
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
48
Without a single doubt with the very high success rate they are having. I don't see MehDMA having any therapeutic value whatsoever.
I'm not sure I agree that the therapeutic success rate alone transfers into confidence about the "magic," and that's based on personal experience that I'm starting to talk about in the Psychedelic Medicine->autism thread. I'm hoping for more people and therefore more data. (I have no interest in splitting this focused conversation -- which is one I've been really enjoying -- but am interested in atypical experience with substances within the autistic community, and the swirl of conversation/topics around that.)

But anyway, I get no sense of well-being, euphoria, however you name it. It's *all* been MehDMA for me from that measure.

But, I have no doubt -- none -- it's been effective in opening me up emotionally in some as-yet-unclear way. I also noticed I seemed to have a greater interest in social communication, or lowered skepticism maybe. That was before I read the papers on that. I've observed that for some period of time after MDMA, I seem to go at communication with noticeably increased energy/interest, and then over a period of time as shit happens and disappointments occur, I sag slowly back into ... disinterest.

tl;dr: I seem to get at least some of the reported therapeutic benefit of MDMA from tested product that provides me no happy-head.
 

indigoaura

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
759
@MountainTrails I am in the process of reading that thread now. Lots of good information there.

Have you been sourcing the MDMA yourself, or have you been getting it through research studies/therapy?

Interesting to ponder whether the effects of MDMA on autistic individuals would be the same or different from neurotypical individuals. Do you know anyone else with autism who has experienced well-being or euphoria from MDMA?
 

indigoaura

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
759
Wanted to also get everyone's feedback on this oddity. So, I rolled on December 31. Felt fine for about 3 days, then had a typical emotional dip on days 4 and 5. On day 6 and 7 however, I had an extremely elevated mood and afterglow to such an extent that I even experienced enhanced hearing and appreciation of music. There is an effect I used to get on MDMA where I can hear more detail and musical separation than normal. I am not sure I hear music normally, honestly. I miss what is going on in the background. However, on MDMA, I can hear the background instruments and texture of the music (if it is good product). I had this same effect on days 6 and 7 after the roll, and then abruptly on day 8, it went away along with the elevated mood & I normalized. What do all of you make of that?
 

MountainTrails

Greenlighter
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
48
@MountainTrails I am in the process of reading that thread now. Lots of good information there.

Have you been sourcing the MDMA yourself, or have you been getting it through research studies/therapy?

Interesting to ponder whether the effects of MDMA on autistic individuals would be the same or different from neurotypical individuals. Do you know anyone else with autism who has experienced well-being or euphoria from MDMA?
Sourced via DW. Multiple vendors and forms.

I'm seeing mixed reports: autists in both categories (with and without euphoria). But the data is so, so limited. I had contacted someone with a role in the MAPS/autism work asking about any plans to release further reports/information about the study, but never heard back.
 

SunriseChampion

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 7, 2018
Messages
269
Location
Toronto
Wanted to also get everyone's feedback on this oddity. So, I rolled on December 31. Felt fine for about 3 days, then had a typical emotional dip on days 4 and 5. On day 6 and 7 however, I had an extremely elevated mood and afterglow to such an extent that I even experienced enhanced hearing and appreciation of music. There is an effect I used to get on MDMA where I can hear more detail and musical separation than normal. I am not sure I hear music normally, honestly. I miss what is going on in the background. However, on MDMA, I can hear the background instruments and texture of the music (if it is good product). I had this same effect on days 6 and 7 after the roll, and then abruptly on day 8, it went away along with the elevated mood & I normalized. What do all of you make of that?
I normally get a nice afterglow for about a week or so after the good stuff, but never have experienced negative aftereffects.

Maybe it was some sort of rebound effect after the negative effects of days 4 and 5?
 

indigoaura

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
759
@MountainTrails One explanation is some people get magic product and some people get meh product, and that is why not everyone gets the euphoria. I have not found anything particularly mind-blowing on the DW. Interesting that you have found positive therapeutic benefit despite the lack of a typical high. What is the high itself like for you?
 

MountainTrails

Greenlighter
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
48
@MountainTrails One explanation is some people get magic product and some people get meh product, and that is why not everyone gets the euphoria. I have not found anything particularly mind-blowing on the DW. Interesting that you have found positive therapeutic benefit despite the lack of a typical high. What is the high itself like for you?
Here are some words on that. If you have specific questions beyond what I have there, ask away.
 

Hilopsilo

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
557
Would the stuff given in mdma therapy be magic?
I'm sure it works as intended, and I'll bet its colorless and doesn't reek

^^^IMO yes MDA can be magic or meh, and in fact I wrote up a thread on it a long time ago (like 8yrs ago) on DF, it’s called like “Variations in batches of MDA” or something like that.

Back then I was just starting to get a grasp MDxx batch variation, and I made the argument that it was isomers by comparing experience reports to the different isomers. I still think it could be...

But it does appear that certain batches have a magic quality that others don’t.. That said it also seems that MDA is only available in areas where magic MDMA is accessible, leading me to believe the synthesis routes for magic MDMA and MDA are similar.

High quality crystals clear MDA like the picture I showed is an amazing substance, that when I have friends and family try it they don’t believe it’s even MDA mixed in with their dose. It’s highly euphoric and empathogenic, very chatting and lovey.

Impure shit sass/MDA is sedating/mongy, bland and boring, little to no euphoria sometimes even dysphoric, visuals/trippy aspect is different too. Overall a waste of good precursor IMO.

The stuff I just finished off was crystal clear with beautiful formed shards, but if you broke open a shard or bit into one you’d get that taste/smell of safrole.

That’s something I notice with all the good product, even stuff that looks insanely pure with very nice clear crystals, upon breaking open the crystal or biting into it at least the faintest hint of safrole is detected.

Safrole is very potent smelling/tasting even at minuscule amounts, I’ve had a single drop ruin an entire batch of hash oil many years ago when I played with various oils, my guess is that even if safrole was there in .1% amounts it’d still be detected by the human nose and taste.

I’ll be sure to continue to watch for that though. Up until the past 5yrs I couldn’t really detect safrole in any of the product I was taking but my nose was also destroyed for awhile from other drug abuse. I was eating stuff then that people were saying smelled sassy, so I’m sure some people can’t detect it even in appreciable amounts.

-GC
The MDA that blew my mind was, like the picture indigo has posted below, clear colorless crystal. MDA seems to vary just like MDMA in appearance, lots of "sass" thats smelly and colorful like MDMA but I've never tried that before

View attachment 20437

@G_Chem Does this look like the "right" kind of crystal? It has more of that blocky, rocky look than the jagged ones you posted.
As far as looks go, if that tested as MDMA, with even just reagents I'd be bet its really good
 

indigoaura

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
759
@MountainTrails I really appreciate the precision with which you present your experience. My initial, gut reaction is that you have never had magic MDMA, although your experiences sound pleasant enough. The overall lack of mydriasis is a giveaway, IMO, that something is not right with your product. Not surprising to me, as the majority of product available on the DW seems to be "meh." Also, the lack of tactile enhancement seems significant as well. Tactile enhancement was a cornerstone of quality product in the early 00s. Good MDMA is more than eye jitters and enhanced lights, although a lot of the meh product I have had has seemed like it just turned up the "symptoms" without providing the heart of the experience. Since your first use did not occur until this "meh" problem was quite widespread, you may just not be finding the right product.
 
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