First it would make no sense to go from safrole to piperional to MDMA.. literately it would make 0 sense, MDA yes... MDMA no
I stay up to date on the LATEST and greatest MDA/MDMA routes some hidden some more present, but most commercial route to Piperional clandestine and wholesale is now made by a new route typically speaking... without safrole... I imagine to QUALIFY for GMP thru SPS It would have to be . this route was patented in the 2000s so it is very old and well documented. The chemistry is sound knowing it is the 3,4 glycol
The present invention is to provide a process for producing piperonal which comprises continuous three steps of: (A) an addition reaction step wherein 1,2-methylenedioxybenzene and glyoxylic acid are reacted to form 3,4-methylenedioxymandelic acid in the presence of a strong acid...patents.google.com
The present invention is to provide a process for producing piperonal which comprises continuous three steps of:
(A) an addition reaction step wherein 1,2-methylenedioxybenzene and glyoxylic acid are reacted to form 3,4-methylenedioxymandelic acid in the presence of a strong acid,
(B) an extraction step wherein an organic solvent is then added to a reaction mixture and the mixture is neutralized with a base to extract 3,4-methylenedioxymandelic acid in an organic solvent layer, and separating the organic solvent layer and an aqueous layer, and
(C) an oxidation reaction step wherein the aqueous layer is removed and the organic solvent layer is concentrated, and then, nitric acid is added to a concentrate, and the 3,4-methylenedioxymandelic acid and nitric acid are reacted to form piperonal.
Of course I have another route to piperonal But I will not say it here... People who make it from pepper or safrole are retarded considering 1,2-methylenedioxybenzene can be made from catechol cheap a waste product ...
Or safrole can be oxidised directly to piperonal. Safrole is a cheap item of commerce. I wonder what do lot of the industrial producers do? Industrial as in commercial legitimate chemical manufacturers, not hive bee idiots or clandestine chemists. They can get hold of safrole, its dirt cheap. There are literally hundreds of routes to piperonal which any chemist could work out at least 10 in about 5 minutes, but only some of them are going to be cheap and why bother when you can just buy it.
SPS, if they are using piperonal, can just buy it. Indeed if they wanted to start from MDP2P they could just buy that too. They are not clandestine, if they wanted to start from safrole they could just buy it, they have a sch1 licence and can buy any MDMA precursor they like. So your clandestine methods and teks are totally irrelevant.
I suspect you don't know how cGMP works. The chemistry doesn't have to be novel, whilst the starting materials have to be quality controlled through acceptance criteria, but they can be ordinary items of commerce and it is up to the GMP manufacturer to state at which point the in process material is fully under cGMP. The purpose is to have a repeatable documented process in a suitable facility, where the impurities are identified, and a final release specification is created, the process is followed each time which ensures that the product is consistent within batch and batch to batch. A QP could in theory propose to take commercial products and do one step reaction under cGMP in a cGMP facility and it would then be compliant with CFR21 and the product GMP. cGMP is a strange paperwork generating religion, a lot of GMP manufacturers are not very dilligent or professional, it was historically designed for parenteral drugs but it has spread everywhere.
I've looked into cGMP before, this includes labs in india for drugs imported into USA and LMAO as you say are not very diligent or professional, I believe the route also has to be high yielding.. It's true they could Buy MDP2P or safrole or any other chem from sigma.. so your right the route is technically irrelevant,
Looking at MDMA from a GMP point of view, avoiding safrole is probably a good idea because safrole is listed by the FDA as a suspect human carcingen and has pretty tight limits on the amount allowed coming out of the infamous root beer controversy. It has effectively a blanket ban on using safrole in food and drugs.
but the rule could be circumvented by buying MDP-2-P as the SM.
Maybe SPS took MAPS for as much money as they could knowing that MAPS have pretty deep pockets and not much industry knowledge. Or MAPS realised that they could raise a significant amount of funds in a drive to make GMP MDMA. who knows.
I was personally excited, too, since SPS’ final proposal had selected as a precursor a compound used in flavoring and perfumery, and I have a personal interest in fragrance chemistry.
I had expected that manufacturing a chemical that is over 100 years old to be a simple process, like making widgets. I thought that there was a set of directions that all pharmacologists and chemists would know that would produce MDMA. However, from our discussions and exchanges during the search, we learned that building a chemical is more akin to cooking or artwork: finding a cost-effective, high-yield route to making a future medicine is a creative process of discovery, not to be found in a single set of directions.
A couple of things really stand out to me about that MAPS article.
What are they referencing here?
Doesn't this basically confirm a lot of what we have been discussing here? It implies that there are nuances and details to the process that go beyond simple step by step directions.
Also, correct me if I am wrong, but one thing I recall reading from waaaaay before MAPS started this research study was that MDMA was old and the license was open. In other words, nobody could really profit from it due to MERCK having patented it so long ago. If MAPS develops a proprietary formula for developing GMP MDMA, can they patent that? Would that provide a path for making it profitable?
piperonalA couple of things really stand out to me about that MAPS article.
What are they referencing here?
No.Doesn't this basically confirm a lot of what we have been discussing here? It implies that there are nuances and details to the process that go beyond simple step by step directions.
MAPS are not developing a proprietary formula, they might have eventually end up with an approved manufacturing process, and they would be the license holder if it ever got approved. there would be nothing stopping any generic company making their own version it provided they could show equivalence or non inferiority, which is really easy. The main positive outcome would be MDMA would be moved from Sch1 to Sch2 and that would be a great acheivement. They wouldn't have anything to patent.Also, correct me if I am wrong, but one thing I recall reading from waaaaay before MAPS started this research study was that MDMA was old and the license was open. In other words, nobody could really profit from it due to MERCK having patented it so long ago. If MAPS develops a proprietary formula for developing GMP MDMA, can they patent that? Would that provide a path for making it profitable?
we learned that building a chemical is more akin to cooking or artwork
This does not seem like just writing down steps to me. They say it is the opposite of "a set of directions." I get that GMP is all about setting a standard that can be followed in the future, but it seems l like they are implying there is more to it than simple directions.
Indigo, since you have access to all these different samples, could you try doing multiple trials of each? I know its a waste of reagent, but it would help to eliminate the chance that the test result just varies just due to factors like amount of reagent used, amount of MDMA used, or other randomness. If one smokes, and the other doesn't, thats a whole lot more conclusive if it can be reproduced over and over on the same samples.
If indgio or people has both meh and magic.. I have access to NMR proton cosy, HPLC etc. a polimeter I could REALLY get us some answers. Especially because my friend is knowledgeable about this thread and analysis is his thing.
I know we've basically ruled out stereoisomers, but I'll be damned if that doesn't sound like the problem... "(with 100 mg of the “ S ” isomer) “I feel the onset is slower than with the racemate. Physically, I am excited, and my pulse and blood pressure are quite elevated. This does not have the ‘fire’ of the racemate, nor the rush of the development in getting to the plateau.” Sounds like some damn MehDMA to me, and it doesn't sound like the R-isomer does all that much on its own at all, which is interesting since I was under the impression that S-isomer is more potent but I didn't think it was so much that a full dose of R does basically nothing according to him.