What is the real damage of maintaining a codeine habit..

[Nicomorphinist]

It was invented as a cure all patent medicine tonic in an era full of BS cure all patent medicines, not the same thing

I'm not saying you're wrong about coca cola helping you. Those are your choices to make. I just can't take calling coca cola a medicine seriously.

Besides. It seems reasonably well established that the Coca cola of today is not the Coca cola that was originally sold as a medicine.

It's apparently close enough that C-Jam shows up in GC/MS of the finished product in what are usually traces but some times have been higher, similar to an energy drink whose name I forget that actually had active amounts in it and there is only one firm with a licence to import and decocainise the leaves and bottle the decocainized extract to sell to Cloaca-Cola and other companies and sell the blow to Mallinckrodt in St Louis -- the flavouring component they took out that caused all the sound and fury in 1985 was Decocainised Coca Leaf Extract. There is just no substitute, it turns out. I forget if the cane sugar to high fructose cough syrup changeover was simultaneous or came later and made a bad problem worse, and they slid it in later to less controversy. I drank it before, during, and after this, and whilst I did not get the Inca Message, I have chewed coca leaves and I could detect the before, during, and after there.

Other than that:

Carbonated water: tick
Phosphoric acid: tick (the two ingredients doctors tell me helps queasiness)
Citric acid: tick
Cane sugar then HFCS: tick
Kola nut extract: tick
Lime Juice: tick
Vanilla: tick
Cardamom: tick
Lime oil: tick
Lemon oil: tick
Orange oil: tick
Cinnamon: tick
Neroli oil: tick
Nutmeg oil: tick
Coriander: tick
Decocainised Coca Leaf Extract: tick
Carmel colouring: tick
Caffeine citrate powder: tick

Coca-Cola changed their three-years old recipe in 1886 to improve the taste according to Dr Pemberton the inventor, changed it again to take out the blow in 1903, then tried again in 1985-6 when it blew up and fizzed all over them like putting bottles in a freezer. The change was made in 1903 after carping in Harper's, Cosmopolitan, The Public, Frank Leslie's Illustrated Newspaper, other magazines and Upton Sinclair getting on the trail then Eugene V Debs ripping them a new arsehole, the Pure Food & Drug Act was passed 30. June 1906 and the patent medicine era (not that it was as much a patent medicine before or after with the Nose Candy in it then caffeine) ended only with another company being fined for reacting to the act by doubling the cocaine content of Celery Cola in 1910.

By the way, depending on the region of North America and the world one is in, various people recommend Coca-Cola, RC, Pepsi or local brands, and arguably Sprite/Slice/7-Up are healthier to an extent. I have mixed in the 3 grains of Bolivian Marching Powder per 240 ml and of course there was a little difference, but nothing in the GI system.

 

[KS78]

Some people really moderate their doses right when it comes to seed tea, but the other half of people tend to lose control and constantly redose throughout the day.

Unpopular opinion here but I think seed tea and pods can be stronger than heroin by a long shot depending on how potent the batches you get are. If you don't taper down off seed tea the withdrawal from perpetual use is SO BAD. However I guess at least you can taper down. From what I've seen most people rarely ever taper down off heroin.. if it's even possible.

I agree with everything that you wrote but my point is it won't leave you with ilnesses or physical issues once you stop using as far as I know. Like you said poppy tea can be very potent. I was an IV H addict for a long time; I don't remember getting higher with H than poppies and for such a long duration as well. Other than the IV part, I think that poppies have a much better high than heroin especially if you have decent quality pods.

Codeine always gave me bad stomach pain after an hor of taking it and it didn't go away so easily. This stabbing stomach pain was the reason I was never into Codeine. The weird thing is that I've a dependency of poppy pods (I just eat dried ones without any preparation when I can't get opium and sometimes to potentiate the opium) and opium. Codeine is one of the main active alkoloids in both poppies and opium but I never suffer from any kind of GI discomfort. I have no idea why it doesn't cause any issues when I consume it this way but not in pill form.

 

[Nicomorphinist]

I agree with everything that you wrote but my point is it won't leave you with ilnesses or physical issues once you stop using as far as I know. Like you said poppy tea can be very potent. I was an IV H addict for a long time; I don't remember getting higher with H than poppies and for such a long duration as well. Other than the IV part, I think that poppies have a much better high than heroin especially if you have decent quality pods.

Codeine always gave me bad stomach pain after an hor of taking it and it didn't go away so easily. This stabbing stomach pain was the reason I was never into Codeine. The weird thing is that I've a dependency of poppy pods (I just eat dried ones without any preparation when I can't get opium and sometimes to potentiate the opium) and opium. Codeine is one of the main active alkoloids in both poppies and opium but I never suffer from any kind of GI discomfort. I have no idea why it doesn't cause any issues when I consume it this way but not in pill form.

There are other alkaloids in different families along with chlorophyll, dietary fibre, resins, oils, and waxes in opium which help ease stomach and intestinal discomfort, so opium will never be replaced as a comprehensive, if second-line for political reasons, GI medication

 

[KS78]

Is there still chlorophyll once the poppies are bone dry?

 

[Nicomorphinist]

Is there still chlorophyll once the poppies are bone dry?

There must be in one form or another, because chlorophyll is the active ingredient, along with celery, parsley, and poppyseed oil, in a capsule they give people in hospital in places to reduce or eliminate the odour of faeces, which the poppy pod tea does well for me, especially when I use fresh-squeezed 35 per cent lime juice, 50 per cent lemon juice, 15 per cent grapefruit juice. I believe the moisture content in dried poppies may still be in the 20 per cent range, which may be part of it persisting -- and the poppy seed extracts do not do the same thing for me

 

[Zonxx]

My neighbor in Oklahoma did Codeine almost her entire teens and it turned on her. It wasn’t because of anything else, it tore her stomach up. Then she switched to Alcohol and then the harder painkillers. She always has to eat with pain meds

holy shit, can you stop writing my life story, get outttttt *spank*

 

[Zonxx]

It's apparently close enough that C-Jam shows up in GC/MS of the finished product in what are usually traces but some times have been higher, similar to an energy drink whose name I forget that actually had active amounts in it and there is only one firm with a licence to import and decocainise the leaves and bottle the decocainized extract to sell to Cloaca-Cola and other companies and sell the blow to Mallinckrodt in St Louis -- the flavouring component they took out that caused all the sound and fury in 1985 was Decocainised Coca Leaf Extract. There is just no substitute, it turns out. I forget if the cane sugar to high fructose cough syrup changeover was simultaneous or came later and made a bad problem worse, and they slid it in later to less controversy. I drank it before, during, and after this, and whilst I did not get the Inca Message, I have chewed coca leaves and I could detect the before, during, and after there.

Other than that:

Carbonated water: tick
Phosphoric acid: tick (the two ingredients doctors tell me helps queasiness)
Citric acid: tick
Cane sugar then HFCS: tick
Kola nut extract: tick
Lime Juice: tick
Vanilla: tick
Cardamom: tick
Lime oil: tick
Lemon oil: tick
Orange oil: tick
Cinnamon: tick
Neroli oil: tick
Nutmeg oil: tick
Coriander: tick
Decocainised Coca Leaf Extract: tick
Carmel colouring: tick
Caffeine citrate powder: tick

Coca-Cola changed their three-years old recipe in 1886 to improve the taste according to Dr Pemberton the inventor, changed it again to take out the blow in 1903, then tried again in 1985-6 when it blew up and fizzed all over them like putting bottles in a freezer. The change was made in 1903 after carping in Harper's, Cosmopolitan, The Public, Frank Leslie's Illustrated Newspaper, other magazines and Upton Sinclair getting on the trail then Eugene V Debs ripping them a new arsehole, the Pure Food & Drug Act was passed 30. June 1906 and the patent medicine era (not that it was as much a patent medicine before or after with the Nose Candy in it then caffeine) ended only with another company being fined for reacting to the act by doubling the cocaine content of Celery Cola in 1910.

By the way, depending on the region of North America and the world one is in, various people recommend Coca-Cola, RC, Pepsi or local brands, and arguably Sprite/Slice/7-Up are healthier to an extent. I have mixed in the 3 grains of Bolivian Marching Powder per 240 ml and of course there was a little difference, but nothing in the GI system.

just a wild amphetamine fueled speculation, stemming likely from my drug deprived brain, god am i edgy but that's not because i'm without, i'm sitting infront of the equivilent to meh, 15-17 grams of morphine so can i get a hip hip hurray for abstaining for going on16-17 hours? back to my speculation sorry about that, If i were to dump a gram of my coke into say some pepsi then stir the fucker up, and down it what would said effects be? lethal potential aside though. because if coke was going to kill me it'd have done it by now, or it's just waiting for me, that or the amphetamines told the cocaine it's going to kill me first, ah lord lalalalalalal i'm rambling.

 

[sonicwhite]

Why? Do you think God doesn’t reveal things to me? Meh

 

[Zonxx]

Why? Do you think God doesn’t reveal things to me? Meh

though hath no idea of true revelation, come to me after you've been on a two week amphetamine/coke binge and are still going at it, i'm pretty sure i made shadow people friends around new years, then we'll talk revelation sir

 

[sekio]

There used to be a boogeyman here by the name of E[redacted]e. You want a good example of the kind of trouble a codeine habit can provide? She'd be the one to ask.

As for cocaine in acidic soft drinks, I'd reccomend you consume the drink rapidly after adding the cocaine. You're fighting an uphill battle against hydrolysis of the methyl ester - once that has been broken off you are left with benzoylecgonine which is a local anesthetic, and not a stimulant. From memory Coca-Cola has a pH of like 3 - so it's a pretty darn strong acid. The same acidic conditions in your stomach (plus eserase enzymes in your liver) are responsible for the poor oral BA of cocaine.

 

[Keif' Richards]

That was kind of irresponsible of me to make that earlier post without coming back for a rebuttal. There is unfortunately not a lot of research from what I have seen, regarding direct and overtly negative side-effects as a result of Codeine usage. I'm 100% not a doctor obviously, so forgive me for my flimsy attempt to understand this. I believe that gastrointestinal stuff, just like as caused by chronic Opioid administration in general, is the only problem worth worrying about and even still, I think that Opioid-induced Constipation can be prevented in most cases if not left unchecked.

 

[geekgrl]

Careful it is just codeine and not mixed with anything else. My friend ended up in hospital with a bleeding stomach and liver damage from doing cocodamol which is paracetamol codeine mix.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Careful it is just codeine and not mixed with anything else. My friend ended up in hospital with a bleeding stomach and liver damage from doing cocodamol which is paracetamol codeine mix.

This.

My friend died of multiple organ failure from cocodamol abuse. It's a nasty way to go.

 

[geekgrl]

I wish I still had a nice codeine habit. From there I went to DFs, then morphine, then oxy, then heroin because it's cheaper. Took me over 10 years but the love of opiates has ended up costing me a ton. Between myself and the medical professionals I've ended up with a right habit.

 

[Gobuchul]

Close to a necro, but the question was so close to my life, I felt I should share the lived experience.

240mg does seem bad? But what you can get? What I'm almost willing to guarantee you will get? Your circumstances, the particulars, they'll differ depending on how well off you are, your support network, where you live etc. But here's a not so short summary of what can happen:

A slow descent into needing it - poor perscription by GPs resulting in a habit that seemed managable (240-300mg a day max) turning into 2000mg a day (it doesn't mix well with CPY 2D6 inhibtors, which I told my docs for years, no one believed me, despite citing papers, now it's a NICE warning for codeine in the UK- are you on an SSRI? Check out which you're on an consider how fast a metaboliser you are - get it genetically tested if people don't believe you) which turns into ever increasing doses for very real pain...

... then you're using cold water extraction and getting inconsistent doses, the whole nine yards. Because your tolerance is sky high, you know if you tell the doctor they'll just take it away and that the 'treatment' that _should_ be Gold Standard everywhere (understanding, figuring out why you want / need to take so much, slow tapering, support through withdrawal and PAWS) will be non-existent, you have to do it yourself - and the codeine seems easier, you can always quit tomorrow.

I didn't lose my job because of the drugs, I had the 'habit' under control - I actually came way down to 60mg a day, and went cold turkey and came off them (it was awful) - ironically, I went back on them and it got worse because of the drugs. It was a very seperate set of difficult circumstances related to pain and being the wrong person in the wrong stressful workplace, but difficult circumstances = stress and those little pills make the stress go away. Stress shoots you up. Your tolerance goes up and suddenly 240mg is normal for a single dose, then it gets to you - it fucks with your emotions badly at high levels - sure, it caps at about 420mg, but when you're taking that every four hours? You find yourself buying it by the trainload illegally just to function. The same amount converted to morphine in your system would be safer and easier if you just got a morphine shot. Still awful for you, but a whole lot less stress, financial loss and heartbreak for you, your family and anyone close to you...

... and so next week I start Bupe replacement therapy, because no one will help with a controlled taper in the UK for straight codeine, But... thats not how you get off it, where I live. The UK - and Scotland, inventor of the 'supervised consumption' 'guidelines' will put you in the same category as the worst case of heroin addiction - and truthfully, you're no more or less an addict or human being than they are - but people don't treat addicts well, the system treats them as a problem. Some are - some non-addict drug users are, everyone is different. But you'll be stuck with what you can get your hands on, what the law allows, and your willpower to get better.

So, you have to use what's available - and after a hell of a search, I found people who will _listen_ to me about my condition, about why I got where I am. But I'm still going on the Bupe, and then I have to look at my mad mix of perscribed meds which - while some may be working - screw up my life, and I slowly have to taper off a bunch of them, starting with who knows what - to bring whats going into my system back down to a controlled, sensible state for me. Which may not be what medicine in your area considers appropriate - and you'll go through professional after professional until you find the ones who listen and think, eventually, if you're lucky.

So for years, in the prime of your life, you'll be slowly working your way up through the circles of hell to be 'normal' (I won't be 'normal', as I have ADHD, but I will be controlled, stable and with minimal side effects) and you'll curse the wasted years, the sexual impotence (yes, you can 'treat' that but sex with a stuffy nose isn't as great sex as it could be) and whatever else you threw away to try and keep your habit.

That's where '240mg a day doesn't sound so bad' will get you. Places you do not want to be. Even if you were perscribed it - and were using it - for pain management.

(Although if you want the hilarious story, you'll discover the pain went away as soon as the stress of work, or of dealing with the NHS, or the DWP did, then you'll get an ADHD diagnosis and life will make a lot more sense. But I can't guarantee why you've got the script, what you're taking it for etc. I've had to fight panic, depression and anxiety for years because I was a square peg in a round hole. But codeine only made me _feel_ round. I was still a peg being hammered out of shape.)

And your devil - it'll always be opiates, unless you find something worse to hook onto - twenty years on, you'll know that an easy to get 60mg of codeine will take the pain away on a hard day. I don't _know_ that from lived experience, but I can read others experiences.

(If I sound bitter about professional treatment - I am not, with two exceptions I am bitter with the system and with the fact that I've only ever gotten close to appropriate tailored treatment by going private.)

 

[Tifftifco2]

Could of written this myself having just realised that the reason I've been of work (NHS professional) for the last 2 months is that the symptoms I'm having are actually caused by my dihydrocodeine misuse and anything and everything else I'm putting in my body to try and deal with the stress and mundane life I've got. I take so many pills every Day I'm just a slave to it but I'm now at the point where I've built up such a tolerance they dont do anything except make me feel well again from the withdrawals. I'm so tired because I take high doses of gabapentin (not prescribed get it off a freind) along side to potentiate but that use has rocketed up also. I love had tests after test as they thought I had colitis and fibromyalgia but actually I've got withdrawals and side effects but I tell them I take it properly when infact I take my daily dose all in 1 with a whole heap of other stuff I buy which is mostly codeine then benzodiazepines when i can get them (so hard) in fact i think if i had benzos i could probably reduce my opiate use so much as i did when i was able to buy them off someone but cant get them now. I also put in all sorts of over counter stuff from antihistamines to cough stuff its ridiculous my life completely revolves around pill use and now I'm off work in a mess (doctors confused as hell) but like you say if I tell them then they will stop it, take away my only bit of comfort and I'll be left fighting a worse battle (I feel like that would be worse) than what I am now but at least this battle has a tiny bit of comfort when I feel them kicking in and taking me back to feeling ok. Your story seems exactly like mine. I just dont feel I'm ready to stop yet. Well done to you for taking those steps though I feel I'm not too far away but not quite there yet. My plan is in the next couple of weeks to get where i am only taking what and how it is prescribed and see what happens then.

 

[Gobuchul]

I'm not ready to jump yet - we considered detox, but there is a bunch else wrong in my life that detox depression and PAWs would just put me on a giant relapse circle to where I was, moving to Bupe is a holding pattern - safer, legal and monitored, with access to other therapies.

So I figure we all have some idea when it's time to change, and when it's time to jump. Mine were both pretty ugly emotionally and physically.

Oh yeah. What can happen, in the words of a famous doctor:

Fecal Impaction.

You _do not want this_, it is not a joke, it sneaks up on you. As does - from a short, but painful memory, dehydration then trying to pass stool that had the consistency of concrete. Maybe it's fortunate I had genetic hemorrhoids from about 18, so the blood didn't freak me out and just prompted a 'I want to check' GP visit.

The smooth flowing of your gut will become a memory, and... that's not much fun, honestly!

Uh. Anyway. Tapering down to your perscribed dose is a _great_ start, if you can do that while considering still working for the NHS, great. But take a look at that job, and your life surrounding it. I'm not betting you won't like what you see, but I was a (well paid, materially well off) Civil Servant.

A tip I found worked for me was acceptance I _was_ taking the pills to cope with the stress, then - even when it cost tears, failures, and pain - looking the stress in the eye. You can't always beat it, thats not the point. The point is you learn what causes it and... well... for me at least, I'm surprised more people in my workplace were not alcoholics or junkies - I mean, 1/3 of my team were borderline alcoholics, and one was alcoholic and another died aged 63 a year after retirement. You may not be coping in a healthy manner, but for me at least - there was no healthy manner, I have made a firm affirmation never go back to my old line of work, no matter how good I am at it. Hence the wanting to see other therapists. I never thought I'd have need of an Occupational Therapist before...

Good luck, break a leg, etc. If you can get to a perscribed dose, you've made a big step.