What is the current laws on Research Chemicals?

[Ekstasis-//7]

What are the current laws on Research Chemicals?

Hi I was wondering if someone could inform me of the current legal status of the following research chemicals in NSW, Australia.

2C-I
2CT-7
4HO-DIPT
5MEO-DMT
5MEO-AMT

I have recently read this report on Erowid.org but had not since found any further publication as to the current legality of these research chemicals.

from Erowid
The National Drugs and Poisons Schedule Committee has a draft document which suggests it will probably formally add 2C-I, 2C-T-2, 2C-T-7, and 5-MeO-AMT to the list of controlled substances in australia sometime in early 2005. See NDPSC Pre-February 2005 Scheduling Meeting Notice. (Thanks to grantos, Jan 2005).from Erowid

My primary interest is in the legality of 2C-T-7 following the Drug and
Poisons Scheduling Meeting if indeed that meeting has already taken place. Also I am interested to know if any of these laws are likely to change in the near future.

also I was wondering if someone with experience could tell me how long their order took when they previously ordered a legal research chemical from outside Australia and how customs dealt with their order.

 

[Ekstasis-//7]

Ok so thanks mods for re-opening this thread.... I don't mean to go into too many shady areas with this question and spark off flamming ect....

My main unanswered question is the one about the TGA scheduling meeting that was supposed to happen in Feb 2005... I have not heard anything about this outcome and if they have included all the proposed research chemicals on the scheduling list for prohibited substances. I would love to know what has been the outcome of this meeting?

Also as far as I know (this could well be wrong so please give input) 2-ct-7 and other research chemicals are not specifically illegal in NSW as they are in QLD. My question is this if 2-ct-7 is supposedly illegal by federal law as an analog then why would the QLD government move to pass a law that made it and others specifically illegal in their state...this was from Peter Beattie's announcement back in 2003. Also if 2-ct-7 and other research chemicals are supposedly illegal by federal law as an analog then why the would the TGA propose to add them to the scheduling list specifically? Why would they have a meeting if these are already illegal? Would they not rather simply rewrite the federal law to state each research chemical by name if they wanted it to be clarified to be more easily understandable by the public ect (wich seems against the way they normally act IMO) rather that have to have a meeting about such a subject?

 

[BigTrancer]

The NDPSC haven't released (online) the post-meeting report from Feb 2005 yet. Hopefully it will show up soon.

http://www.tga.gov.au/ndpsc/ndpscgan.htm#2005

The pre-meeting notice is online here: http://www.tga.gov.au/ndpsc/gazette/g0502prea.pdf

BigTrancer

 

[Ekstasis-//7]

E-mailed TGA they say 13th of April the report will be published on their site...

 

[Ekstasis-//7]

Starting to get the feeling that to be a psychonaut these days requires a law degree....

If only I'd lived in the 60's or 70's then I could probably have pursued my interest in a university and made a degree out of it... as well doing lots of new and interesting uni reasearch...

 

[dabb]

Federal and NSW drug laws seem pretty tight i've been interested in importing RCs, primarily 2C family drugs, as well my research lead me to believe this was probably illegal and at the time i couldn't afford any legal trouble so i abandoned the plan. The thing is though i don't have a hope of understanding the analogue laws and the points you bring up seem very valid so i could well be wrong ill just post a bit of stuff and why i thought importing the 2C family would be illegal.

The analogue stuff i quote below is from the NSW Drug Misuse and Trafficking Act 1985, this as well the list of prohibited drugs is found here on this page or you can look at the whole act here
This is exactly the same stuff is found found in federal law which you can look at here just the purpose of the act is making importation rather than possession illegal.

Prohibited plant or prohibited drug

Any substance that is an analogue of a drug prescribed in this Schedule, being a substance that has psychotropic properties, is not separately specified in this Schedule and is, in relation to the drug, any of the following:

(a) a structural isomer having the same constituent groups as the drug,

(b) a structural modification obtained in one or more of the following ways:

(i) the replacement of up to 2 carbocyclic or heterocyclic ring structures with different carbocyclic or heterocyclic ring structures,

(ii) the addition of hydrogen atoms to 1 or more unsaturated bonds,

(iii) the addition of 1 or more of the following groups having up to 6 carbon atoms in any alkyl residue, namely, alkoxy, cyclic diether, acyl, acyloxy, monoalkylamino and dialkylamino groups,

(iv) the addition of 1 or more of the following groups having up to 6 carbon atoms in the group and being attached to oxygen, namely, alkyl, alkenyl and alkynyl groups (for example, ester groups and ether groups),

(v) the addition of 1 or more of the following groups having up to 6 carbon atoms in the group and being attached to nitrogen, sulphur or carbon, namely, alkyl, alkenyl and alkynyl groups,

(vi) the addition of 1 or more of the following groups, namely, halogen, hydroxy, nitro and amino groups,

(vii) the replacement of 1 or more of the groups specified in subparagraphs (iii)–(vi) with 1 or more other groups so specified,

(viii) the conversion of a carboxyl or an ester group into an amide group

Now the act lists 2cb (4-Bromo-2,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine) as a prohibited drug so my uneducated guess was that the analog stuff would cover 2C-I (2,5-Dimethoxy-4-Iodophenethylamine).

2C-T-7 (2,5-dimethoxy-4-(n)-propylthiophenethylamine) i thought could possibly be covered directly by this next bit i've quoted or by the analogue stuff;

2,5-Dimethoxy-4-methylamphetamine and other substances structurally derived from methoxyphenylethylamine being those substances having hallucinogenic properties

As for 5-MeO-DMT (5-Methoxy-N,N-Dimethyltryptamine) while DMT (N, N-Dimethylamphetamine) is mentioned i couldn't even guess if it that makes 5-MeO-DMT illegal as an analogue.

5-MeO-AMT and 4-HO-DiPT seem most likely to be legal as only DMT and N:N-Diethyltryptamine are the only tryptamines mentioned in the act.

Well i've pointed out what i know which is really sweet fuck all but it would be really cool if someone with the chem knowledge to comprehend the analogue laws could help us out.

 

[KostoN]

So importing 5-MeO-DMT would be LEGAL under them laws ?



I wish I knew sites who sold these RCs and other organic chemicals just for research, be interesting to see if these places are listed on the NASDAQ etc...places of origin and safety regulations would be an interesting read...most of them that i've found are bullshit..maybe just not looking hard enough

 

[phase_dancer]

Most chemicals used as recreational drugs or as "RCs" can be purchased off the major chem suppliers. I've several catalogues that between them, list many of these substances. Of course that doesn't mean the buyer won't require a permit to purchase. These suppliers are right onto diversion, so expect a nasty house call if you try ordering anything without the appropriate approvals.


As DMT is covered by this statement;

N:N-Dimethyltryptamine and its derivatives being those derivatives having hallucinogenic properties

That covers everything else really.


5-MeO-DMT is also covered by this bit;

(iii) the addition of 1 or more of the following groups having up to 6 carbon atoms in any alkyl residue, namely, alkoxy, cyclic diether, acyl, acyloxy, monoalkylamino and dialkylamino groups,

4-OH-DIPT: The ring substitute (OH) is covered by

(vi) the addition of 1 or more of the following groups, namely, halogen, hydroxy, nitro and amino groups

The diisopropyl bit here;

(iii) the addition of 1 or more of the following groups having up to 6 carbon atoms in any alkyl residue, namely, alkoxy, cyclic diether, acyl, acyloxy, monoalkylamino and dialkylamino groups,

5-MEO-AMT is also covered by this bit;

(v) the addition of 1 or more of the following groups having up to 6 carbon atoms in the group and being attached to nitrogen, sulphur or carbon, namely, alkyl, alkenyl and alkynyl groups,

The bottom line is that the legislation is so tight that one would require a completely different structure to the PEA/AMP or TRYPTAMINE skeleton.

And as soon as the core structure was listed, the analogues law would cover any likely modification that retained activity.

 

[Flexistentialist]

For the record, Queensland has just recently scheduled both AMT and 5-MeO-DIPT.

 

[dabb]

Thanks so much for clearing things up phase_dancer, very informative much appreciated.

 

[Ekstasis-//7]

Are you talking about Australian chemical supliers or international?

I have been interested in ordering 2-ct-7 from a company I think from Hong Kong I am still unsure of the finer points of the law when it comes to analog laws and if 2-ct-7 is specifically illegal or would get siezed on importation here in NSW.

I have e-mailed the chemical suply company and they said all their Australian orders have come through but they said as to my questions on legal status I would need to check myself if unsure.

I have emailed the scheduling section at TGA.gov.au and he said basically they will post a reason as to why the substances (2-ct-7 ect) are considered to be added to the schedulling laws. The post should be up on the 13th of April. Still by the sounds of things this is only A REASON for proposing scheduling rather that actually stating that these chems are scheduled... This could be my misinterpretation though.

The TGA guy also e-mailed me saying I should contact by phone an individual from the Pharmaceutical Services Branch of The NSW Department of health as to the legallity of posession and importation of 2-ct-7. I instead looked on their website and tried to e-mail him. (The idea of talking to him in person was not very applealing!). I got a e-mail back. Saying

"Dear Anonymous

you may phone me on 9xxx-xxxx to discuss this matter."


...Now I don't know if I should call him or not... should I use a public phone box? for risk of possibly having a not so friendly house call to possibly investigate my interest or possible importation of 2-ct-7? I definately expect him to ask about what are my reasons for importing becuase of my "anonymous" name in my e-mail to which I would reply "for research purposes" any following questions about my company or affilated university I'd say "no affiliation just private reasearch" and furthur questioning I'd say "my reasons are my own". So do you think I should bother? I'm obviously a bit freaked at the idea talking to this guy. At the end of the day isn't an e-mail better because at least it's in writing which would be better evidence in case I did get in a hot spot if I imported? Should I simply reply to the e-mail and state that I want it in writing the legal status and therefore boycot a phone meeting?

 

[BigTrancer]

It sounds like an awful lot of hassle, and I'm not sure about the potential to explain any legitimate research purpose for a tiny quantity of an obscure chemical that was created specifically as a drug -- remember, following a couple of fatalities 2C-T-7 was written up in popular magazines and all over the internet -- besides 2C-B it's possibly one of the more widely known experimental drugs. In my opinion unless you are actually doing scientific research in chemistry, it would be very difficult to supply evidence to back up this claim.

I assume you're not talking about importing kilograms of this substance, and most likely not trying to arrange permits to import it on a regular basis, so I don't see why the TGA would bother to put any time into checking whether it is permissible. Their usual line if you're importing an obscure (legal but not approved by the FDA/TGA) medicine is that you can import 3 months personal supply at a time. After that, if it gets caught and they ask the hard questions I think then the onus would be on you to provide answers to explain your need for the chemical.

The 'grey area' that made research chemicals popular as legal alternatives to MDMA and LSD has been steadily shrinking as analogue laws become more general, and more of these chemicals are specifically being prohibited as they gain popularity. Since 2C-T-7 was 'emergency' scheduled pending an investigation by the FDA, and is now on the list of chemicals 'going to be scheduled' in Australia, I would say this chemical has the least likelihood of having a legitimate need explained for it.

BigTrancer

 

[phase_dancer]

Are you talking about Australian chemical supliers or international?

Both.



2C-T-7 is definitely covered by the analogues law.

 

[Ekstasis-//7]

2C-T-7 is definitely covered by the analogues law.

fuck!

Thanks for all the feedback people I really apreciate it.... I think I'll decide against importing...