I'm fairly certain you won't feel the kratom at all. Sorry bud. I'm sure people have found ways around the sub timeline though--and I know specifically they have with shooting up heroin for sure.
It does not prevent you from getting drunk. But please don't drink on it for many hours after it's receded. Maybe... 8 hours? Unsure. Drinking on other opiates is more potentially fatal but suboxone isn't exactly safe to take and then go on a bar bender with. Best to wait a few hours.
That's where kratom is unique. I've eaten a ton of kratom while drinking a lot of alcohol. Most people would vomit, but I love the combo. Kratom is safe to drink alcohol on-suboxone is questionable so best not to risk. You won't die from 1-2 beers though.
No need to apologize dude, cause the whole point (with POSSIBLE exception of Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone which she says she'll THINK ABOUT but isn't yet willing to prescribe) is to find something to preferably block BOTH kratom and alcohol and also help with the cravings, not so much the acute WD though cause I already have klonopin which helps with both and i know i can get over both the kratom and dex WD in probably less than the 12 days I have off work, and if i have any alcohol wd it would be weak and also helped by the klonopin.
I'm kind of weird in terms of what i'm looking for, though addicts like us probably wouldn't find it as weird as doctors, in that i can't moderate well with any of these drugs so I figure the one sure way to either moderate or temporarily abstain is a drug that does it for you (i still have to have the will power to take it) but i know for almost a certainty i'll still want to use both kratom and drink many more times in my life, but i just can't allow myself to do either as frequently as now cause they mess with my life.
But ultra low dose naltrexone HAS BEEN PROPOSED, though not proven, to be different from high dose and possibly more effective in terms of helping with drug cravings without actually being addictive or an opioid, possibly helping with depression as an off label anti-depressant, and since i have depression that's appealing, and many people on reddit and other forums have said that IF THEY GET THE DOSE RIGHT, they can take Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone not only with kratom but any opioid and not only have it NOT block it, but POTENTIATE IT, while also simultaneously reducing tolerance, dependence, WD effects and side effects DRAMATICALLY, as well as cravings.
This sounds amazing of course, cause I especially LOVE kratom, but i don't ''want to want it'' as often as i do, and same with alcohol and dex. I want to be able to take it if I choose to, and not if I don't, but not crave it like crazy, and that seems like it MIGHT be possible with ULDN, but that is exactly why my doctor won't prescribe it, cause she knows I'll eventually want to try the combo, and that plus ULDN not yet being though clinical trials and approved makes her feel like she'd be liable, other than if she prescribes full dose naltrexone. But..it's ironic that she'll prescribe suboxone which MY GUESS is is not safer than kratom and probably more dangerous, and also probably more dangerous than the combo of ULDN and Kratom.
I read on reddit that some Kratom users who were up as high as me dosing like 10-12 grams per dose or more and when combining it w/ ULDN were able to get back down to 2 grams a dose while having their kratom high feel STRONGER than on like 6 times as much, BUT, also making them NOT FEEL THEY WANT OR NEED TO TAKE KRATOM, like it's an easy choice to take or not, AND that supposedly they have been able to stop taking kratom cold turkey while continuing to use ULDN with about 75 percent decrease in withdrawal effects!!
Heroin users and morphine users have also said that they have combined their opiate w/ ULDN and brought their tolerance down by like 4 times and have been able to go cold turkey off of heroin and moprhine and also methadone with VERY little WD effects, which seems impossible, and while it is far from proven, I believe that these people aren't lying.
So my doctor knows i believe this and want to eventually combine ULDN w/ kratom so she doesn't want to prescribe it to me, and while i get that, because she feels liable legally if she prescribes something that isn't normally prescribed to a drug users, EVEN BY HER OWN ADMISSION SHE DOESN'T SEE HOW IT WOULD BE DANGEROUS TO MIX KRATOM WITH ULDN...she just won't do it because of the very slim chances that something could go wrong and she's liable.
And i've explained to her that my interest in it is NOT just as a potentiator, and that regardless of whether or not it works with kratom like that, that i STILL am determined to go AT LEAST 3 months without any drugs at all, kratom, booze, dex etc, and only THEN would i MAYBE be interested in combining them...but she still sees it as too much of a risk for her...and again, i understand, but it's not dangerous to do and yet i think suboxone is more dangerous which she'll prescribe.
I mean, IF the accounts are true then using any opiate w/ ULDN WOULD MAKE IT SAFER, and she's like ''yeah but that's not proven'', and it's not, but again, she has admitted that AT WORST it would not be dangerous. Maybe it would even operate like full dose naltrexone and block the kratom, and according to the people who have done it they have to get the dose EXACT between like 1.5--4.5 MICROGRAMS or it will block their opiate.
I want to be able to choose to block a high or alcohol buzz if i want, or take what i want on it if i want to, BUT, still have MASSIVELY decreased cravings so i don't want to and can stop thinking like an addict and using so much, and have the potential anti-depressant effect ULDN MIGHT bring, along with the POSSIBLE ability to diminish kratom WD....but OF COURSE a doctor sees this as an addict just wanting to find a better way to use, and again...it PARTIALLY IS...but I also have some pure intentions for how i'd use it, and i just feel I should be allowed to LOL...typical addict thinking.
People are doing a lot of interesting studies w/ microdosing naltrexone and many SEEM to suggest it operates differently than full dose.
What i have heard is that basically both high dose, low dose and ultra low dose naltrexone increase endorphins and paradoxically block opiate and pleasure receptors somehow by flooding them with so many endorphins, but that at ultra low doses, unlike high doses which produce so many endorphins they block everything, that then they produce just the right amount of endorphins to allow you to be able to get either partial or full effect from opiates, decreased effects from alcohol, but still some, BUT...still make you not crave them...sounds like best of both worlds.
The couple studies i read that proposed this made sense because they said that UNLIKE full dose naltrexone, ultra low dose naltrexone basically gives one a similar kind of ''runner's high'' to that achieved by exercising due to the increase in endorphins, and supposedly exercise, sunlight and other healthy habits, along also with smoking weed, can potentiate the effects of ultra low dose naltrexone.
It makes sense cause when i am trying not to use any drug exercise helps me more than anything with my mood and cravings, and if i have just worked out really hard and feel calm from the endorphins my cravings for any drug or alcohol is about as low as they can get. That also makes sense as to their proposal that that is why it can MAYBE work as an off label antidepressant.
But..i am aware that really none of this has been 100 PERCENT PROVEN, and studies are still ongoing, but i still read that so far they show a lot of promise and are in phase 3 trials. So we are just talking about a much lower dose of an already approved drug here, and i don't see why a doctor shouldn't be willing to let a patient experiment, but again, they feel liable. I could have asked her for ketamine or oxy or a drug that gets me high...but i'm just asking for a lower dose of a drug blocker that she's already willing to prescribe....and yet...NO.
But the studies are so experimental, especially with kratom involved, and while there are RARE doctors who prescribe ULDN, it's still rare and showing promise in phase 3 trials, but still not approved medically yet IN THE USA.
In Finland however, there is something called ''The Sinclair Method'' to help alcoholics stop drinking, and the protocol is SPECIFICALLY TO DRINK WHILE ON ULTRA LOW DOSE NALTREXONE, which is contrary to what doctors normally advice.
Supposedly the way it works is that it reduces but doesn't ENTIRELY eliminate the pleasure from drinking, so you can still get drunk or buzzed on it and it KIND OF feels good, but not as good as usual and you don't end up craving more alcohol over time.
The way they do it is they say the method will ONLY WORK IF YOU DO TAKE ULDN AN HOUR BEFORE YOU DRINK every time, and that over time your brain stops associating alcohol with pleasure and you no longer want to drink. I'm not sure if they say you CAN'T take ULDN while not drinking at all for their method to work, or that you can but it's pointless, but they just say that you can drink as infrequently as you want, but just to make sure that every time you do to take the ULDN before and eventually you will no longer think like an alcoholic.
It actually has a 78 percent success ratio in Finland of helping alcoholics quit, but my doctor doesn't believe in it of course cause Finland isn't the U.S. so therefore we don't know they are human like us LOL.....
I read actual reports from people who cured their alcoholism by using the sinclair method, and not only are they not alcoholics anymore but they can drink in moderation and enjoy it TO SOME EXTENT, just so long as they take their ULDN.
One woman said it's hard to explain, that you just don't get the full pleasure of drinking, but you still get some, and you don't really care about drinking anymore eventually, but if she wants to she will, sometimes even get really drunk, and basically, it turns alcoholics into people who respond to alcohol as if they can just take it or leave it.
These studies and those with kratom make me want to try it, but she won't prescribe it...BUT.....she kind of said ''wink wink, nod nod'', that ''I could make my own Ultra Low Dose with the high dose pills she'd give me but she doesn't recommend it'', and I TOTALLY WANT TO and will try if i get that....but it could be hard to get the dose right and i never even took chemistry in school and even suck at cooking lol, so i don't know if i could figure it out myself. I know there are instructions online to make ULDN from full dose though.
To even get naltrexone in ultra low dose forms my doctor said you'd have to send it to a compounding place first cause it's not usually made that way but you can get it done.
I was like ''yeah, but i wouldn't know how to get the dose right and no doctor would help me'' and she's like ''yeah''....as if to say ''and since a doctor won't help you you shouldn't do it''.....but it's like, i believe in harm reduction where if someone is going to do something anyway then a doctor SHOULD help them do it the safest way possible, but they won't do that cause their legally liable.
And yeah, I also drink while on Kratom quite often and have never thrown up or gotten sick. I've never thrown up from taking Kratom either.
Sounds like you like the combo more than me though. I'd say that I only like it because I like kratom and i like alcohol, but i don't find them FOR ME to potentiate eachother. It's just like I'm liking how i feel cause i like both but they don't seem to work together for me.
But WEED...now weed potentiates both kratom and booze for me, so if i drink while on kratom AND smoke weed i feel incredible.
The best really IMO is weed, alcohol, Kratom and Phenibut/F-Phenibut, and maybe throw a few cannisters of nitrous in there for fun ahaah.
I find Phenibut and Kratom potentiate eachother, and weed also potentiates both, and it KIND OF potentiates alcohol too, so all together is a great time....though obviously you need to be careful, but i don't feel it's a big risk for respiratory depression like drinking on oxycodone for example.
Sorry....WAY too longer winded again....but yeah, still, even if suboxone blocks kratom and is dangerous to drink on, it still doesn't sound like what i want.
Yeah, i think i'd be too scared to drink on it so therefore it would help me with both not using kratom and drinking, but i think i would still be switching from one opioid to another, and one which honestly to me sounds like it is probably stronger and more dangerous than kratom.
Yes, it would help with cravings, but again, only cause it's an opioid. Shocker that opioids help with opioid cravings haha.
Just seems like overkill and it has a long list of negative side effects which kratom and naltrexone don't have. I mean, if you can overdose on it and die then it's already more dangerous than i need.
Jk, that would be illegal. I wonder if suboxone would in theory help someone get off kratom though. Probably quite easily.. but the substances are so vastly different in compisition hmmm. I've recently relapsed on oxy and started to actually go into kratom withdrawals. I didn't even know that was possible until I felt totally normal after taking it again even though I was high from other opiates. It has it's own uinque withdrawal (provided, nothing like being dope-sick in terms of intensity.) I don't notice depression from kratom withdrawals, just grouchiness and restless legs to the max (causing insomnia). True opiate withdrawal is depression like no one's ever seen. I didn't see any point in being alive the first time I withdrew from oxy without knowing of kratom's existence in the past. My god I think I wanted to kill myself but resorted to alcoholism instead for that time period lol!