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What are your beliefs?

imfrmthedot

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What are your beliefs? The big question why are we here? What is the meaning of life? Let’s get a discussion going where we can all share our different believes, and maybe we can get an idea of the bigger picture and of our universe.
 

Vastness

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There are many ways to answer that question, and it depends from what perspective you want to answer it. On the individual level, the meaning of life is what you make it... maybe a cop out but, the what a mind chooses to assign meaning and value to varies hugely, and I don't believe it's sensible to say that on the individual level any given assessment of what has more meaning to that inidividual is wrong. In a more esoteric sense, the meaning of life is to find something that means something to you - or to find a way to give your life meaning.

Moving up a level on the scale of conceptions of reality, and outside the relatively isolated bounds that are the edges of perception of our individual minds, on the level of life itself, the meaning of life is to preserve life, by any means necessary, this is the evolutionary imperative which is deeply encoded in all of our genes, and while complexity of consciousness occludes the purity of this meaning, this is the meaning of life for everything that one could consider to be alive - and even some things that aren't - the unconscious, immutable drive of the self-replicating strands of genetic material in the protein coat of a virus is to preserve it's life by the only way it can.

Moving up a level again, to the scale of the universe, the meaning of a human life is no longer too different from the meaning of life of a bacterium - or, in fact, the meaning of the life of a star - to enforce the law of entropy - to take in energy and splurge it out in ever more disorganised, incoherent forms, even if in the relatively small timescale of our technological civilisation of straight edges and order we might feel we are doing something to fight it, and if we ever get off this planet we might continue to fight it until the heat death of the universe... and maybe it's not as unbreakable a law as it seems, and if entropy can be defeated and some kind of future intelligence can escape the destruction of the universe, then the meaning of the life of the universe and of the law of entropy itself is to give birth to gods who can eventually transcend the dying universe and begin a new existence in whatever is beyond it. But even if the heat death of the universe is immutable, undefeatable, the purpose of life within it is to iterate through the processes needed to fuel the engine of eternity, even if the exact nature of the engine will never be explicable in words.

Truly, words like "meaning", and questions like "why" are ultimately human ideas, or perhaps, more broadly, ideas which do not translate to things so far outside the scope of our ability to understand reality such as what, exactly, reality actually is. If we can step outside time for a moment, and view infinite existence as a static object, of possibly infinite dimensions some of infinite magnitude, and of varying nature such that time, space, and whatever else might be entirely absent from our own infinitesimal slice of sensation against a backdrop of something utterly incomprehensible - then the meaning of life is to provide a texture to the static crystal of eternity, and the only way to truly understand why we are here, is to understand why anything is here. I have no fucking idea personally but I LOVE to speculate about it.

Obviously, evidently, things exist because they must, I do not think it makes logical sense to say that something could have come from absolutely nothingness, since true, true nothingness would have no properties from which to give rise to something. On that basis, I believe existence itself has likely always existed, and always will exist. It may well change in some way - but change requires an axis of time, and as time is just another dimension, I think the changes experienced by Greater Reality are likely along an axis that is not directly analogous to our own understanding of the flow of time. In fact, all things considered, our own fairly linear arrow of time as something distinct from our perception of space is, likely, illusory.

Assuming conscious experience is an emergent property of a sufficiently complex, self sustaining, and temporarily negentropic system, and assuming that our own layer in the reality cake is one of many, it's almost inconceivable to me that experience is something that is replicated on many levels both upwards and downwards, although the nature of that experience will inevitably defy our own attempts to understand it. Maybe not everything "experiences", at least not in a way that we could understand. Maybe the universe does experience, and the entire cosmos is the brain of a god, or maybe it is a more mechanistic entity, more like a tree or a flower. Or maybe these distinctions are themselves illusions. Either way, somewhere up the reality tree for sure is a complexity of organised, self-aware, self-organising, intention, so beyond us that even the multiversal Bulk of our most outlandish interpretations of String Theory is itself just the most meagre structure within the mind of a god.

Maybe the bulk is actually a fish tank, the branes of which our universe is one weird jellyfish kept as pets by something like a child even though they would be immortal gods to us. Equally, maybe the entire universe and the multiple zillion year evolution of it until it fizzles out is actually the flickering and spark of something analogous to a neuron in the mind of a god, or maybe just something analogous to an oscillation in the hyperdimensional allegory of the rubber sole of the shoe of a god walking down the street. Or maybe it's a bubble of false vacuum, triggered by a 5-dimensional raindrop falling into a pan-dimensional eternal ocean of lifeless, senseless, random darkness and silence except for the intermittent storms that birth clouds of bubbles of whole realities that strain against the firmament and then pop, merging again with the eternal sea.

If the universe is the spark in the neuron of a god, the meaning of our lives is to keep that spark alive and aid in thinking whatever thought the entire smorgasbord of Hubble volumes invisible to us in an unfathomably large void that make up the brain even if "we" ourselves will never know what that thought is. Or maybe that thought is an idle moment in a dream, all of us random operators in a temporary nonsense world of shadows and patterns and shapes, an abstract representation of the true reality of the spark within the neuron and the transcendent laws that govern it. Or maybe we are the thoughts - in which case the god mind might be closer than we think. Or maybe, again, it's not a mind, but it's still an abstraction, but outside the abstraction, meaning means nothing, purpose means nothing. Maybe there are other concepts that transcend there paltry human ideas like we like to think all our philosophising transcends the base desires of a bacterium as it follows a chemical scent to imbibe a snack of a mere few molecules... or maybe this layer of reality is special, and the meaning of meaning here is surpassed by nothing else... although I'd say this is astronomically unlikely.

So yeah... why are we here and what is the meaning of life? To experience life, and fulfil our cosmic destiny, even if we may never know it. Even if we don't know it, we've already done it, because time itself means nothing outside our narrow realm of transient conscious experience.

Perhaps we will know it one day, say death is not the end - or even say it is - and when a human being has lived a million lives - or, better yet, countless zillions of lives have lived all the life they can live - and the universe oscillates from birth to heat death as the stars burn out - and eventually it starts to mean something, and awareness returns, and we awake, collectively, from our slumber we finish thinking the small thought that took a subjective eternity to think - and suddenly it makes sense, and we realise what we are, and immediately, it ceases to matter - because the thought was remembering some extradimensional equivalent to a single word, in a sentence, while speculating on the nature of the greater reality above... or perhaps just in idle daydreaming... but now, the we can't see the trees for the forest, for the forest has completed growing, and completed it's purpose - the trees that were universes, the leaves that were lives... have fulfilled their purpose.

Imagine this - we don't know what level of complexity is sufficient to give rise to conscious experience - just as reality is a construct of greater reality "above" in the reality cake, when you go to sleep, and dream, what if the entities you see within your dreams experience things? What if the mechanisms needed to project a realistic simulation of a person within your mind, require that that entity has an inner world. What if within that inner world, from when the dream ends, to when you awaken, the firing of a simulated neuron in the mind of a simulated person of the most arbitrary, hazy detail just before you wake up, contains within it levels of complexity and abstraction and indefinable depth, such that a whole other parallel reality cake blooms, comes to fruition, executes it's function, which is to give your mind a dream... just a moment in an endless river of experience through which we all must sail.

What is the meaning of life? I have no fucking idea, but it's very very fun to think about.
 

madness00

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^ I wish i didn't have ADD, but thank you for summing stuff up here and there.

I don't think there is a true meaning of life. But, i do believe that we can make one, if we so choose. Many people meander around, and in fact it helps us find ourselves through the process of elimination, but a lot of us don't take meaning out of our journey and simply hope things will go our way. It's not like that, IMO.

We need to constantly be trying to grasp experiences, make sense of them. Our perceptions are constantly changing, sometimes taking one step back, or repeating cycles.. we must break the cycles and trying to find new views on life. Shit, i am constantly doubting myself. Maybe this post makes zero sense. Maybe it's ground breaking.

Up to you. No skin off my dick.
 

nznity

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What are your beliefs? The big question why are we here? What is the meaning of life? Let’s get a discussion going where we can all share our different believes, and maybe we can get an idea of the bigger picture and of our universe.
Life Is a beautiful unique mysterious thing weve Been given, experiencing it Is truly amazing. even tho it can get bad sometimes, we must carry on until the end if u really want to Know what Is it about. Life Is truly a blessing.
 

nznity

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I've taken too many benzos today so there are a lot of typos, missing words, and possibly less-than-coherent sentences there, so my apologies, it's not as palatable or easy to read as it might have been.
I enjoyed reading ur post, shit if that's u on benzos i can't imagine how u write when you're Sober. Cheers
 

Vastness

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Haha, thanks man, tbh I have done a lil cocaine and other stimulants today, I'm actually on a sort of very tame overnight bender right now, I say very tame because there is no ketamine involved and I fully intend to stop before I've finished this gram.

I think about this shit all the time though honestly, I find it fascinating. Reality is just such a whacky, incomprehensible mystery, inside and out. And by inside, I mean within the landscape of mind, how really your memories could be illusions, your senses could be illusions, you really have nothing absolute to rely on except that there's just no other course of action than to accept your own reality. But essentially what the brain is doing is generating a simulation based on input data which would otherwise be incomprehensible noise. The simulation hypothesis is a pretty popular idea today and I put a lot of weight in that idea that reality could be a simulated reality, but what I never see people mentioning is that computers and advanced VR are not the advent of reality simulations... which happen all the time, all over the world, within our own minds. Even consciously when we imagine how one or another event is gonna transpire... we don't assign too much meaning to these thoughts except in a practical sense, but if a dream is a low-fidelity abstraction of waking reality, why could waking reality not be a lower fidelity abstraction of a dream in the mind of a god? And, that being the case, how do we know for sure that the beings we involuntarily simulate within our own minds and our own transient reality simulations we use to make judgements - do not have some kind of conscious agency which contributes transparently to our own thoughts and feelings?

That's just a glimmer of within, and there's an equal amount of whacky stuff happening without. From the Everettian interpretation of quantum mechanics, that seems to be maybe somewhat demonstrated with our rudimentary quantum computing systems, that somehow a problem with a calculation difficulty that tends to infinity can be solved in moments by, somehow, the superpositioned calculations seeming to bind multiple parallel universes for a moment such that the computers collaborate and then share the correct answer with all parties... and then the wavefunction collapses again and our universe is causally isolated once more. From the absolute insane mathematical conjecture of string theory that our 3D space is a (mem)brane, floating in the "bulk" some kind of higher dimensional space of a nature that so far entirely eludes us, although we can make all sorts of interesting theoretical predictions. The fact that empty space is made of something, and that something if you look close enough is a seething foam of "virtual particles" popping into and out of existence every moment... the fact that most of the universe is mind bogglingly huge voids, that dark energy seems like it will eventually tear apart the universe like a snapping elastic band. The fact that within this single brane if that is what it is there might be completely causally isolated "Hubble volumes" in the far far distance, and there's actually a number although I don't recall it and it would be pointless if I did, for how far we'd have to travel before entering a hubble volume that was identical to our own... how little we actually truly know about anything. I posted another thread a while back about multiverse theories, essentially, just HOW MUCH SHIT IS THERE OUT THERE!? And the fact that everything is so mind bogglingly huge.

Reality is indescribably bizarre and to me it's like a puzzle I know I'll never truly get but that's fine and I'm happen to spend my life trying. Some fundamentals I think many people overlook in their frantic search for true meaning in a universe where human concepts are an evolved mechanism to do whatever life or chemistry is supposed to do - that time is almost definitely entirely illusory, and that free will almost definitely has no real meaning when you analyse it closely enough - I think you can analyse it either purely rationally or directly via a sustained meditation practice. But when you strip down the mechanism of choice, you will generally find there is nothing left. But that doesn't mean choice isn't something that happens, but choice and decisions are just another part of the experience of being a human, rather than some special kind of autonomy that we would allocate to, say, a magnetic pulsar weighing something ridiculous like several million times the mass of the sun and rotating hundreds of times a second and occasionally flashing magnetically with enough energy to vaporise whatever fragments of any planetary system it once held, despite the fact that the actual mechanisms giving rise to these starquakes are probably even more incomprehensible than the flickering of neurons in our searching minds. It can be a dangerous dichotomy to hold and requires some introspection to safely hold it in your head, because obviously we need to make choices to operate in the world, even if we know that we can (probably) only ever make one choice - but we don't know what it's going to be until we've made it. But such a dichotomy, in my view, can be helpful in letting go of attaching too much important to ultimately unanswerable questions like "what is the meaning of life?" Because in actual fact all our actions have meaning. But we obviously have to find a meaning to live.

In a less esoteric sense, I ascribe to the evolutionary imperative argument, that the meaning of life is to work towards spreading life, and good life, into the wider universe, discovering as much as we can about it, and taking a small step on the road to create the godlike entities fighting against the oncoming darkness at the end of time. At the moment the Earth is the sole light of life and higher conscious awareness that we know of for sure, and as such I feel that has some meaning in itself, and we should try to protect it. But if we fail, then that's the way it was always going to be, and hopefully some other species will pick up the mantle and do better than us - or maybe our universe will suddenly be snuffed out, the simulation switched off, impact with something in the Bulk that we have no hope of seeing before it's too late... that's fine too, that's the way it is.

There's a really wacky idea I read about recently which I love but I keep getting sidetracked before I'm hyped up on coke and valium and love talking about this shit - but this is the idea of the Tipler Oracle - Tipler's ideas have been somewhat lambasted by most other scientists but it's such a cool idea, he essentially proposes that the purpose or the likely course of the universe is that sentient beings will create ever more powerful computing substrates, converting more and more of the matter and energy in the universe into absolutely godlike minds - assuming essentially incessant exponential growth, some bizarro version of Moore's law, then the power and computing capacity of this being will tend towards infinity, and at some point - I can't remember if he actually says it's mind will be infinite or if it will just be close enough - at the end of time as we know it, essentially - this being will be so transcendentally powerful and knowledgeable that they will be able to simulate the entire history of the universe that birthed them within their mind, possibly multiple iterations of this history. That being the case (I might actually be embellishing a bit here beyond Tipler's own ideas) we have a snake eating it's own tail scenario where the universe which eventually gives birth to this truly omnipotent, omniscient being is recreated in the mind of said being, and thus the cycle repeats indefnitely with all sorts of whacky fucking shit and implications happening along the way.

The extent of what a mind could be fascinates me a lot, I think it is unlikely given the scale of everything there seems to be in eternity which we are discussing - the human consciousness is the apex possible state on the scale of consciousness. Some people balk at the idea of true AI so I try to avoid going down that road too much but in my view it's just not necessary, if reality is as large and complex as it seems like it well might be, then somewhat up there or down there in some of the folded up dimensions or some shit there's going to be a being who's conception of reality is just greater than anything we can imagine. The AI examples of future megaengineering within this universe give some fascinating food for thought though. Like for example a Matrioshka brain - I read a really interesting paper I might try to dig up which entitled this vast computational structures "Information Processing Mega-Objects" - anyway a Matrioshka brain is essentially a nested set of dyson swarms around a star - in this case, all devoted to computation - supposedly this thing would have the capacity to simulate something like several billion versions of the entire history of man or maybe even life on Earth. Assuming these things are self-organising after a point, and that, obviously, even a planet full of humans, after a point, would not be able to modify their programming or even really understand them any more than a fruit fly could understand my job. What would these things be doing? What would their motivations be? What would have meaning to them? Again - it's like a fruit fly - or, say, your cat, or dog or whatever to be a bit more generous to us - trying to understand why you do what you do in your day - truly, why. It's just something beyond the scope of their inner world, and the motivations of the machinations behind our small slice of reality are equally beyond the scope of ours.

But again - meaning still has meaning. And, perhaps, there is a greater meaning... but we're all just passengers, ultimately, trust that everything means something and try to enjoy the ride I guess... I dunno... christ, this was another long post.
 

Gnostic Bishop

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What are your beliefs? The big question why are we here? What is the meaning of life? Let’s get a discussion going where we can all share our different believes, and maybe we can get an idea of the bigger picture and of our universe.
I am a Gnostic Christian and our basic belief is that nothing on earth or in heaven is superior to mankind.

We are all here to learn and create memories to take to our graves. If any care to look at there own loives, this is all they will see themselves doing.

The meaning of life, is encompassed in learning.

We are all like the Johney 5 robot character and all crave input.

Even all the drug takers here want new input and that is a part of why they do drugs.

An altered consciousness, to them, would appear as a random access route to new input.

Regards
DL
 

sonicwhite

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I’m a born again Christian.
I believe God first created the heaven which is stars and moons and the earth.
Our sole purpose was to have fellowship w God. That got put on the back burner because of the fall and why God allowed Satan to do what he did I can’t answer.
 

Gnostic Bishop

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I’m a born again Christian.

Our sole purpose was to have fellowship w God. That got put on the back burner because of the fall and why God allowed Satan to do what he did I can’t answer.
Then you cannot be born again or you would know the answer.

You call Eden a fall, while Jews call it where man was elevated. Christians seem to agree aqs they sing of Adam's sin as a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

How can you sing that while calling Eden where man fell?

If Adam had not sinned, god's plan would have been derailed. Right?

As to being born again, I know the way but you are not ready for it as you seem to be in a confused or delusional position if I go by your bible and what Jesus said about those like you. That being that if you have even a smidge of faith or belief, you can do all he did and more.

Start doing Jesus like acts or be seen as a non-believer by Jesus' own standard.

Regards
DL
 

Yourbaker

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Whenever you stick to a belief, regardless of proof, you will be certain to miss the truth when it is presented to you.

Being wrong about a belief and being able to dismiss it opens up so many possibilities, sometimes I'm just glad I was wrong about so many things I used to believe.

Really enjoyed both walls of text Vastness, ideas that just inspire you to consider a new possibility. So many possible stories and no reason to be enslaved to some story dead people wrote that has a shitty ending.

I try to believe today matters more then yesterday, people matter more than things and life matters more than luxury. I believe how humanity spends it's time will decide our fate.
 

sonicwhite

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Then you cannot be born again or you would know the answer.

You call Eden a fall, while Jews call it where man was elevated. Christians seem to agree aqs they sing of Adam's sin as a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

How can you sing that while calling Eden where man fell?

If Adam had not sinned, god's plan would have been derailed. Right?

As to being born again, I know the way but you are not ready for it as you seem to be in a confused or delusional position if I go by your bible and what Jesus said about those like you. That being that if you have even a smidge of faith or belief, you can do all he did and more.

Start doing Jesus like acts or be seen as a non-believer by Jesus' own standard.

Regards
DL
Not here Gnostic. This isn’t the place for debate and who’s right and who’s wrong. It’s an open discussion of ppls faith. Or whatever they believe in
 

tracedwards313

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I think that we are here to experience, suffer, and learn throughout our individual human experience. Our consciousness is a time for our souls to learn through a finite lens.

I believe there is so much going on that we are incapable of understanding while we are trapped within our human condition. We were never meant to figure our lives out while still living them, its all part of a much larger journey.

The thing about life is, there is no single meaning or purpose. Life is not defined by any one moment and we never "arrive". Our life at age 5 was just as valid as at age 30, only the perception changed.

Perception is one of the most important aspects of a humans life. It means absolutely everything. Thats why some people can find peace, while others are destined to remain miserable.

The truth is, what we do in life doesnt really matter, so much as what we "think" about what we do.

Unfortunately, its easy to have our perceptions scewed and we spend much of lives aimless or misguided. Our life can seem doomed which causes all sort of suffering, anger, and frustration. Of course, we can always adjust our perception.

The important truths in life are not overly complicated. Learn them, use them and try to find something valuable in your life.

Personally, I know God is real. But we all have our own spiritual journey and mine has changed many times. I dont argue or discount anyones beliefs or see much use in it.
 

Gnostic Bishop

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Religious reductivism really sucks the fun out of these conversations.
I agree, but the religious have been dumbed down so much that the religious are too mentally lazy or incompetent to get into the more complicated parts of religion.

That or they are just being tribal and do not really care about their gods.

Look at the complexity of Kabballa, for instance, compared to the simplicity of Christianity.

That is why it is so easy to argue against Christians and that is why they had to use inquisitions to grow. They had and have no decent moral arguments.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Bishop

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Not here Gnostic. This isn’t the place for debate and who’s right and who’s wrong. It’s an open discussion of ppls faith. Or whatever they believe in
That is what we are doing, and if Jesus was a third man in here, he, like I did, would tell you that scripturally speaking, you are to show that you are telling the truth by getting to work.

I do not blame you for backpedaling. There are no real Christians except Gnostic Christians. That is why we were called the only good Christians.

You won't believe that of course but if you read up on the Chrestian religion, not a typo, whose holy books Christianity usurped, you will get a hint of why we are better Christians than you literalists Christians.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Bishop

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Personally, I know God is real. But we all have our own spiritual journey and mine has changed many times. I dont argue or discount anyones beliefs or see much use in it.
Then you are not living by the Golden Rule, which is the main or first rule of most religions.

Insert gays and women harmed by homophobic and misogynous religions to this quote. You should get an idea of what you should be doing with the homophobic and misogynous mainstream religions if you live by the golden rule.

Please get back to me with your conclusion.

Martin Niemöller
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Regards
DL
 

PriestTheyCalledHim

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Then you are not living by the Golden Rule, which is the main or first rule of most religions.

Insert gays and women harmed by homophobic and misogynous religions to this quote. You should get an idea of what you should be doing with the homophobic and misogynous mainstream religions if you live by the golden rule.

Please get back to me with your conclusion.

Martin Niemöller
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Regards
DL
This tiresome BS again? You need to study basic European or world history, the history of world religions and put down the METH pipe and stop trolling. You are like a broken record, or a boring one trick pony.

Christianity has had many reformations and there are sects of Christianity that have supported both women's rights, the rights of LGBT (Gay, bisexual, and trans) people and our rights and freedoms, and human rights longer than you have been alive. Judaism except for certain sects has also done this, as have all other religions except for Islam which needs to be reformed and enter into the 21st Century finally and end the tribalism mentality of the 7th Century many Islamists still have today in 2020.

The majority of Christians in the USA, and North America as well as the rest of the world are not fundamentalists, do not believe everything in the bible or other religious texts is 1,000% true or cannot be challenged or interpreted differently, and they do not like the Fundamentalist types who are in the minority.

Your argument against Christians or basically any religion or sect of a religion including Gnostic Christianity, is akin to claiming most or all Jews in the USA or worldwide are Orthodox, Haredi, or other sects that are extreme and against LGBT people and women's rights when this is not correct at all.

It's like that old poem/haiku:
First they came for the gays/bisexuals
But I didn't know I am bisexual
So who cares?
 

PriestTheyCalledHim

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That is what we are doing, and if Jesus was a third man in here, he, like I did, would tell you that scripturally speaking, you are to show that you are telling the truth by getting to work.

I do not blame you for backpedaling. There are no real Christians except Gnostic Christians. That is why we were called the only good Christians.

You won't believe that of course but if you read up on the Chrestian religion, not a typo, whose holy books Christianity usurped, you will get a hint of why we are better Christians than you literalists Christians.

Regards
DL
Original term χρηστιανος, Chrestian does not describe Christ worshipers but Kres (south slavic word for fire and sun fire in particular) worshipers from the Balkans. They worship krs, hrs, hrast, meaning oak, then totem pole, then cross all meaning holy tree of life which grows from the sun. They called themselves krstjani, krsjani, kresjani...They adopted some of the Christian teachings and mixed them with their own old faith creating mixed "half faith" as this faith was called by bisantian church of Nemanjic Serbia during 12th and 13th century.

This "half faith" was destroyed by Stefan Nemanja and his descendants and was replaced with Byzantine orthodoxy.
 
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