interesting. i've been using ketamine monthly for over 10 years without ever having a serious issue with it.
I know a guy that used daily for over 15 years all kinds of dissos and didn't get bladder damage. Some ppl are just built for it and others aren't. Just listen to your body's warnings if they happen.
You are a fucking tank my friend. Props to your body for weathering that storm.I've commented on this issue throughout the years.....and it's no joke. I am thankful to still have my bladder, and that I don't have any issues anymore.
In my early 20s, I had access to a limitless supply of ketamine. I started out using it with tiny bumps because I was honestly scared to go into a hole, for whatever reason I have no clue lol. Then I accidentally fell into one, and it was amazzzzziiiinnngggggg. Anyway, I was getting it from India for $4/g, flipping it from $30-$120/g.....so I was making fuck tons of money and everything was free. I started sniffing bigger lines, and the tolerance raises quickly. After a while I was sniffing 2g at a time and barely feeling it. Obviously I was using a lot at that time and my nose was not happy. I was at a festival and remember the first time seeing my septal perforation.....a tiny pinhole through my septum. I still continued to sniff it for a while, before switching to IMing it.
IMing was great at first because it was like I didn't have a tolerance anymore.......and then it built up after so long. I was eventually using 100, yes one hunded, gram every week. 2 grams at once split by 5 needles at once, injecting to my hips, thigh, ass, arms, wherever. Not only did I have a horribly swollen, bruised body, and a hole in my nose, but then started the urinary issuse......and the excrutiating k pains in the sternum. This started long before I got up to those insane amounts though.
I would literally piss out ketamine, like a discharge.....it was horrible. I would piss blood clots. I had to piss, or at least felt like I needed to every two seconds. And when I did, it was usually only a couple extremely painful drops. Eventually I couldn't go anywhere because I had the feeling to piss all the time. I missed some serious music gigs that I was booked for because of it.
That was finally the time that I had to clean myself up. It took maybe two months on my couch. I would have buckets next to me because it was futile to go upstairs to use the bathroom.
Anyway.....long story made short.....I got clean 8 years ago and I have no ill effects, surprisingly and thankfullyI use ketamine maybe once a year now, because it is still so amazing, but when I have it....I still go hard. BUT, I can't do it for long because my body reminds me REAL quick with having pain trying to piss after a couple grams.
I want to be involved in some study somehow, because I'm sure I've done more K than thousands of people should in a lifetime 0_o
Be kind to your body with this, and DCK, MXE, 3-MeO-PCP, and the like. They will do the same thing.
Sending lots of love
For sure. Even DXM does that, and even when the last trip(s) were bad.
The study with rats only induced bladder damage with mxe by giving them, quite frankly, fuck off sized doses, for three months. The equivalent dosing in humans would produce a constant state of unconsciousness. As such, I honestly feel that mxe achieved one of my goals in creating it ie. bladder friendly, as there were no reported cases of bladder damage in humans, all the time it was easily available (and we know how many people hammered it then!)EDIT: The first thing I want to add to this thread is that if you have any odd sensation whatsoever in your bladder, difficulty with strong stream, or pressure. STOP YOU ARE LIKELY DOING PERMANENT DAMAGE
2nd: If you are having pain, the most important thing to halt it is to switch to this diet linked below. You will only get worse if you keep eating caustic foods and already have an issue.
For those "wondering" if its just ketamine or other dissociatives, here is a paper documenting the same effects from MXE (in rats)
Ketamine Analog Methoxetamine Induced Inflammation and Dysfunction of Bladder in Rats
The novel synthetic psychoactive ketamine analog methoxetamine is reportedly being used for recreational purposes. As ketamine use can result in urinary dysfunction, we conducted the present study to investigate how methoxetamine affects the bladder. A cystometry investigation showed that female...www.mdpi.com
Damage to the ureter and kideny:
"51% of patients with ketamine-induced urinary symptoms had unilateral or bilateral hydronephrosis "
"hydronephrosis was accompanied by varying degrees of ureteral lesions, ureteral wall thickening, ureteral stenosis, or vesicoureteric reflux."
"one patient who continued to abuse ketamine ended up with gross bilateral hydronephrosis and acute renal failure "
Ketamine damages the billary tract:
Recreational ketamine use increases risk for biliary tract anomalies
Serum alkaline phosphatase and prior emergency attendance for urinary symptoms among individuals who recreationally used ketamine without concomitant drug use predicted biliary anomalies in magnetic resonance cholangiography, according to recently published data.“Long-term ketamine use is ...www.healio.com
Chronic biliary colic associated with ketamine abuse - NCBI
Clinical use of Ketamine for chronic pain results in liver injury:
Possible link between ketamine and bladder cancer (rodent study)
Changes to the bladder epithelial barrier are associated with ketamine-induced cystitis
The aim of the present study was to investigate the changes of the bladder epithelial barrier in the pathogenesis of ketamine-induced cystitis (KIC). A total of 60 female mice were randomly allocated into control and ketamine groups, which received daily ...www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
" In the present study, bladders of ketamine-treated mice exhibited squamous cell metaplasia following 12 weeks of treatment, leading to the hypothesis that long-term ketamine abuse may eventually contribute to the development of bladder cancer; however, whether ketamine abuse would eventually result in the development of bladder cancer is unknown and long-term follow-up studies are required. "
BL user thread chronicling bladder damage from K: https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/why-you-shouldnt-abuse-ketamine-nsfw-photos.895520/
I am aware of one former member who was killed from organ damage bile duct cancer which we all seem to agree is likely due to his super heavy disso use. sporadic dissociative use over the past 3 years or so did more damage to my body than 5 years of slamming heroin 2-5 times per day and smoking crack daily when i was younger.
The mechanism of bladder cystitis has been hypothesized to the result of down stream cascade resulting from NMDA antagonism....not the drug itself damaging the bladder. Basically am immune response is induced with cytokine storm like response that attacks the bladder. Anything that it's antagonizing nmda would in theory do this.
Do you have a source for this? Afaik another theory is that it's the arylcyclohexylamine structure being the culprit and independent of NMDA antagonism, for which would speak that e.g. DXM doesn't induce cystitis (but indeed even memantine has it listed as a possible side effect - I didn't notice any irritation with it tho and in astronomical dosages - 120mg acutely and 40mg/d for many months). My experience at least was that the amount of irritation is directly correlating to the total amount of arylcyclohexylamine and negatively to the amount of hydration during the experience. A K binge is much much worse than a MXE binge. But it might of course be that there are multiple mechanisms involved, as it's weird if you ask me that it's a pretty recent phenomenon and in the past decades most K was diverted from legitimate pharm/vet pharm supplies while nowadays it's illicitly synthed with a pretty huge content of impurities (dark net K is called pure when it's more than like 80% pure and some of the impurities are nasty. Ever got the K cramps? Only happens with certain batches of illicit K.).. so maybe NMDA antagonism is mildly irritating. Arylcyclohexylamine structure too. Add in some toxic impurities and the hell's freezing over.
If it's not in the papers on my OP I'll have to find it again but I swear on my mother's life I've read the paper.
Unfortunately I don't know about healthy options; any dissociative will work (memantine is one which doesn't hurt the bladder any more, and might be active in low [medicinal, like 20mg/d] dosages which don't interfere with everyday life after you got used to it. Maybe even agmatine could help a bit, I never took it but as its used to lower opioid tolerance, there seems to be some central activity.
There must be some impurity/synthesis leftover going around which seems to be heavily toxic. I used a solid three figure number and got a similar level of pain but mine recovered within months, and felt that illicit (darknet) K was the worst by far, the only one which gave me the 'K cramps' and this from just a few g over a short amount of time.
The weird point remains that K has been around for long time and some used it for years on end without getting any bladder related discomfort (see John Lilly) - this makes me believe that we have it to do with some nasty synth leftover rather than the K itself. Arylcyclohexylamines are somewhat irritant to the bladder but this here is far far worse. Also the RCs (2-F and DCK) did only minorly irritate even after probably two-three years of multiple doses daily. It's not healthy for sure but nothing like what we see with current illicit ketamine.
