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☠ WARNING ☠ *WARNING* Chronic ketamine/dissociative use causes bladder/organ damage

LucidSDreamr

LucidSDreamr

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May 23, 2013
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EDIT: The first thing I want to add to this thread is that if you have any odd sensation whatsoever in your bladder, difficulty with strong stream, or pressure. STOP YOU ARE LIKELY DOING PERMANENT DAMAGE

2nd: If you are having pain, the most important thing to halt it is to switch to this diet linked below. You will only get worse if you keep eating caustic foods and already have an issue.


For those "wondering" if its just ketamine or other dissociatives, here is a paper documenting the same effects from MXE (in rats)

www.mdpi.com

Ketamine Analog Methoxetamine Induced Inflammation and Dysfunction of Bladder in Rats

The novel synthetic psychoactive ketamine analog methoxetamine is reportedly being used for recreational purposes. As ketamine use can result in urinary dysfunction, we conducted the present study to investigate how methoxetamine affects the bladder. A cystometry investigation showed that female...
www.mdpi.com www.mdpi.com

Damage to the ureter and kideny:


"51% of patients with ketamine-induced urinary symptoms had unilateral or bilateral hydronephrosis "
"hydronephrosis was accompanied by varying degrees of ureteral lesions, ureteral wall thickening, ureteral stenosis, or vesicoureteric reflux."
"one patient who continued to abuse ketamine ended up with gross bilateral hydronephrosis and acute renal failure "

Ketamine damages the billary tract:

www.healio.com

Recreational ketamine use increases risk for biliary tract anomalies

Serum alkaline phosphatase and prior emergency attendance for urinary symptoms among individuals who recreationally used ketamine without concomitant drug use predicted biliary anomalies in magnetic resonance cholangiography, according to recently published data.“Long-term ketamine use is ...
www.healio.com www.healio.com

Chronic biliary colic associated with ketamine abuse - NCBI


Clinical use of Ketamine for chronic pain results in liver injury:



Possible link between ketamine and bladder cancer (rodent study)

Changes to the bladder epithelial barrier are associated with ketamine-induced cystitis - PMC

The aim of the present study was to investigate the changes of the bladder epithelial barrier in the pathogenesis of ketamine-induced cystitis (KIC). A total of 60 female mice were randomly allocated into control and ketamine groups, which received ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

" In the present study, bladders of ketamine-treated mice exhibited squamous cell metaplasia following 12 weeks of treatment, leading to the hypothesis that long-term ketamine abuse may eventually contribute to the development of bladder cancer; however, whether ketamine abuse would eventually result in the development of bladder cancer is unknown and long-term follow-up studies are required. "

BL user thread chronicling bladder damage from K: https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/why-you-shouldnt-abuse-ketamine-nsfw-photos.895520/


I am aware of one former member who was killed from organ damage bile duct cancer which we all seem to agree is likely due to his super heavy disso use. sporadic dissociative use over the past 3 years or so did more damage to my body than 5 years of slamming heroin 2-5 times per day and smoking crack daily when i was younger.
 
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I support the creation of this sticky thread as I would like to learn more.

I've used ketamine therapy for depression, albeit at low dosage levels, and I would like to hear more stories about how dissociative use affects the urinary system. My concern is that the dangers are not just limited to heavy use, but any use.
 
What types of disassociates cause this damage and how does it occur? This is fascinating, because I was diagnosed with interstitial cystitis about 15 years ago, but never considered the possibility it had any association with drug use.
 
A short stint with chronic MXE use caused me some minor problems with my bladder. I started to feel like I constantly had to go but had issue with reliving myself fully. I'd often go 6-10 times a day but only dribble out a little urine each time. I also started to experience minor leakage that I didn't have before. It was 6-8 months after I'd ran out of MXE that I felt I'd fully recovered from these problems.
 
After using 50gr of 2-f-dck over about two weeks, my liver felt infected, taking diclofenac and tramadol cured me after 4 days of horrible pain on and off. my doctor didn't call me back after sending my blood samples to the hospital for investigation. oh well.
 
I don't have feeling in my bladder left after using MXE for about a year. I'm indifferent to it, it hasn't caused any loss of life quality. If something doesn't feel quite right, I shake my lower body to check whether there's inertia from a full bladder, and then I know it's time to go. I can't do long, intense, confusing trips anymore though. I simply forget the need to urinate, which translates to a heart and kidney load.
 
Okay I've stickied this and changed the title. My thought it that we can discuss this issue and share stories, and also compile informaiton/resources and edit them into the first post. Anyone who has something to add on this topic should contribute and I'll compile it all into the first post as we go.

Thanks for bringing it up again, I agree this is very needed.

indigoaura said:
What types of disassociates cause this damage and how does it occur? This is fascinating, because I was diagnosed with interstitial cystitis about 15 years ago, but never considered the possibility it had any association with drug use.
Click to expand...

It seems to be any arylcyclohexylamines (ketamine, MXE, O-PCE, 3-MeO-PCP, etc, but not diphenidine/etc or other classes). Some people seem more prone to it than others. For example, I took MXE multiple times a week for 2 years and 3-MeO-PCP in small doses almost every day for 2 years after that and never experienced problems.

Dosage seems to be a factor, which is why ketamine is particularly dangerous in this regard, since the dose is so high.
 
awesome31311 said:
DXM, too! People think it's a soft drug because it's readily available OTC. Well guess what, it can still fry your organs!
Click to expand...

My main concern with DXM use was all the sorbitol and other additives in the syrups/gels. It was the main reason that I had to stop attempting to gain something from that substance. My first time with it was amazing and a lot of fun but going back two more times just provided more and more body load as my body refused and rejected the substance. I would try it again if I ever got pure DXM but considering all the other options I don't think I'll ever buy any. I never took DXM often enough to notice bladder/organ problems like I did with MXE. I don't understand how some folks are able to take DXM in cough syrup regularly.
 
Nice LucidSDreamr, when I was doing research for a friend on this topic I realized it was you that are the face of this info getting out by being so candid and honest. There are so many posts and I have links if needed that I saved. I gave up on my friend. Never in my life have I seen such a stubborn addiction. This guy also gave up IV H but still does ketamine after he lost most of his life and health. And here I thought cigarette smokers that lose a lung and still smoke was a stubborn habit.

Mescaline to me is a very special experience. But I will go to my grave maybe doing it a less than 25 times in my life. Dissociatives need that same respect if they are used. Not as an escape or it just turns into any other regular escape pattern but this one (arylcyclohexylamines ) eat at the bladder which to me is as crazy as it gets. The bladder is the last thing I want to screw with.

Well I hope anyone seeking info finds it. It is a start. At one point it seemed every day we had people posting with issues.
 
Indeed, thanks Lucid for being so focused on getting this information out. I know you've had to suggest it a number of times and I kept meaning to do something about it but I probably never would have if you hadn't kept at it. So thanks. :) It's really important information, because when I first started exploring dissociatives, the general consensus seemed to be that ketamine at least was really safe and non-toxic. But in fact the ACHs are not non-toxic and there are some very severe potential consequences. I think using dissociatives from time to time is probably pretty harmless, and they have a lot of potential for profound experiences and consciousness exploration, but a lot of people develop an addiction to them since they're such good escapism drugs, and end up really fucking themselves over. Our departed member vortech did a TON of dissociatives, and he died of a rare form of cancer that affected his bile ducts. It's speculation, but I think it's sensible to consider that it may have had something to do with the long-term bombardment of dissociatives.

I would really like to fill this thread out and make it a central information resource about the risks involved with dissociatives.
 
I'm just getting around to updating my initial post now, and will add more. I am very behind with work from missing a week from the pain and haven't had time to come here because i recently had a bad flare up of pain after about 4-5 months of being pain free. This was some of the worst pain i have ever had in my life. fentanyl and i was still in pain.

good luck getting pain meds if this happens to you. truly terrifying time right now to be in pain, doctors are not prescribing shit. i had to beg and beg in tears for some extra opioids because my normal script was not cutting it. People are having bladder surgery for this disorder and not even getting sent home with opioids. I have started to research leaving the united states because of this. I will not survive in america if this sort of thing keeps happening.
 
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Did you ever look into hyaluronic acid? I think that's how you spell it. Remember someone started a thread about a study where it cured bladder cystitis? Worth a try. Sorry it sucks so much for you man. :(
 
^ i have a bag of it. I've come across those papers but have not studies them in detail, i'm too scared to take many supplements because the more random stuff i take the harder it is to figure out what makes the pain come back.

after doing some reading tonight and updating the OP, I'm wondering if i can handle the responsibility of contributing here. I am having some crazy anxiety based on the stuff I'm learning.
 
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LucidSDreamr said:
good luck getting pain meds if this happens to you. truly terrifying time right now to be in pain, doctors are not prescribing shit. i had to beg and beg in tears for some extra opioids because my normal script was not cutting it. People are having bladder surgery for this disorder and not even getting sent home with opioids. I have started to research leaving the united states because of this. I will not survive in america if this sort of thing keeps happening.
Click to expand...

It's really bad right now. All the doctors are spooked because of the major investigations going on. It'll be decades before we see sane pain management treatment in America again. I've had to resort to doing what my Great Grandmother did in the old days and growing my own herbs and such for this just to have a stock around in case someone majorly hurts themselves. I didn't think it would ever get so bad that I would be afraid to buy pain medication on the street for fear of it being Carfentanil. I've seen people on radiation treatment for cancer being denied Tramadol!

The sad thing is despite the "Opioid Crisis" no one gives a shit about the people. All it is are news stations being able to show another death every day and a crooked industry afraid to lose the free money they've been printing for a decade. They're making more off the Suboxone than they were off the Oxycodone. In the past I would have never advised this but now I'm telling folks; If you have the means to produce your own morphine it might be a good idea to do so and store it for the long term.
 
This thread is pure gold. So sorry about you, LucidSDreamr. Go try the hyaluronic route, it seems really promising.

My experience with dissos is K only 3-4 times in my life. And with MXE and 3-meo-pcp something like 1-2 mini or micro doses per week during 8-9 months along 3 or 4 years, so quite a medium to low usage.

So basically only 3 or 4 holes in my life, the rest really low-low dosages from time to time. I have no problems but my urinating amount capacity is some smaller that before the disso usage. Also the use of quite potent dissos versus K seems to be potentially less harming. It´s a shame that such a food for the soul eats our bladders.
 
I was IM'ing small doses (10-30 mg, with a few times around 50) of ketamine on a weekly/bi-weekly basis last spring/summer. Not before long, after every session I would feel a distinctive throbbing pain in my bladder, which would resolve after a few days. I stopped using K altogether and never experienced it again. So IME health problems can start occurring even with light use.
 
blistersinthedark said:
I was IM'ing small doses (10-30 mg, with a few times around 50) of ketamine on a weekly/bi-weekly basis last spring/summer. Not before long, after every session I would feel a distinctive throbbing pain in my bladder, which would resolve after a few days. I stopped using K altogether and never experienced it again. So IME health problems can start occurring even with light use.
Click to expand...


it definitely can. I was trying to find a scientific paper from japan showing some users that used moderately for only 6 months that developed cystitis. Some people that have never touched drugs whatsoever develop this disorder also.

I had a friend using massive amounts of every disso in the RC market for about a decade, like holing everyday. He never had problems. My use was sporadic but when i had a bag i tended to use it everyday in threshold doses until it was gone. If you're going to abuse dissos you have no way of known if your bladder will survive it until its too late.
 
Wow that's heavy stuff, sad day to read that its not specific to ketamine but applies to all dissos / arylcyclihexylamines.. Probably I can call myself lucky not to have any serious problems after doing dissos for years with a heavy addiction binge over two years and still again using daily..

My subjective feeling is that a) it is absolutely crucial to stay well hydrated and eat healthy, and b) classical ketamine is more toxic than the more potent RC ones.

Does everybody/-rat get these organ damage or might it be a genetical thing that part of the population is more sensitive than others? Or even the body can get used to steady low doses of arylcyclihexylamines, cause this is how it feels to me.. That I got initially some bladder aches after heavy K binges but it passed, thanks god, and now I am fine with daily 2-FDCK even when I skip some days there is no pain, so it is not the ket masking pain..
 
I have also not developed any problems despite near-daily 3-MeO-PCP for like 2 years. However in general I do have to pee often... but I've always been that way. it might be a little worse but it's hard to say.

Agreed that ketamine is worse than the others, but I believe it isn't anything to do with the molecule itself, but rather the MUCH larger doses required.

Some people seem to develop problems very quickly even after light to moderate use, while some never develop problems, so it's likely partly down to individual metabolic or other factors.
 
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