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Opioids W-15

foolsgold

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any one any info trip reports?

<snip dude stop copying and pasting directly from vendor websites. It's pretty apparant that your shrilling>

It has never been used in humans, but animal studies has shown that the compound is around 5x more potent than morphine. The structural differences from any other controlled drug make it likely to be legal throughout the world.

Wikipedia describes that possible effects on humans should be close to other potent opioid agonists, including analgesia, sedation, euphoria, itching, respiratory depression, constipation. Tolerance and dependance should develop rapidly ad it is similar in strenght with carfentanil and would most likely cause pronounced tachyphylaxis following repeated dosing, as it was seen with potent fentanyl analogues.

This part sounds a bit suspicious to me, because since when wikipedia describes "possible euphoria in unrecorded human use"?

If anyone has any information or thoughts, don't hesitate to share.

nicked both from the site and another post
 
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Montresor

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Wikipedia is probably referring to the fact that it's beginning to be sold as a research chemical. No doubt a few people around the world have had a good time with it, even if nobody has posted a bioassay (that I can find.)

The only similar opioid I can find is W-18 which also appears to have never seen human trials, most likely because it's 10,000x stronger than morphine. There doesn't appear to be any other opioids in this series that have been patented. W-15 is only 5x as powerful as morphine, so I think it'll get banned quick.

Anybody have any idea what this might metabolize into?
 

DickTate

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This substance is sold in a mixture with creatine in a relation of 1 to 3,5. So 1g contains 35% of the W-15.
That fact alone would scare me off. Fuck these mixtures (like butyr-fentanyl with lactose). No one can guarantee they are evenly distributed and if they don't want to sell it in pure form than just don't at all.

My 2 cents (But still curious of course :|)
 

King-Anubis

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Interesting. Although we should note that it has been found to be five time stronger then morphine in animal studies only. For all we know it could be as strong as Fentanyl or as weak as Dextropropoxyphene in humans - which makes experimentation very risky. Either way, considering the ratio, 350mg is a lot for the price.

I'd be happy to order some and test oi out if someone could give me guidance on chemistry and ROA. Would it show up on Marquis' reagent? Would it be destroyed orally? Etc.

Of course, it could take a few weeks. I wouldn't go any higher then a few mg to start with, if that. But still, could be interesting.
 

thesameoldfears

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This substance is sold in a mixture with creatine in a relation of 1 to 3,5. So 1g contains 35% of the W-15.
That fact alone would scare me off. Fuck these mixtures (like butyr-fentanyl with lactose). No one can guarantee they are evenly distributed and if they don't want to sell it in pure form than just don't at all.

My 2 cents (But still curious of course :|)
I know! I hate the mixtures...I mean I'm supposed to bet my life on the fact that it is entirely homogeneous?

That being said...I am very curious about the opioid rc's...never something I'd even heard of prior to discovering this site.
 

foolsgold

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so more possible death from the rc world . i cant understand why bring these out to be truthful they make their livings of people getting high yet release stuff like this daft innit :) what quicker way for them to just jump on every thing to do with rc
 

orgone

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I agree DT... wouldn't bet on any manufacture foreign or domestic with a substance this potent. The only RC's I've tried are phenaz and etizolam. They were dangerous enough in terms of pure powder dosages.
 

walterdini

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Its only a matter or time till the entire RC thing gets shut down IMO. And sure, while a few deaths due to opiate rc Overdose might make legislators shut down all RC's faster than they would otherwise, I don't see the harm in releasing an effective RC opiate with potency and effects similar to morphine or oxycodone. What's the diff btwn people getting high and addicted to an effective rc opiate versus an effective rc benzo or stimulant like those already popular. And I think most of the people with knowledge of the rc opiate scene and who actually buy the substances, are more educated and careful than most, and thus less likely to OD due to a dosing error. But who knows

All I'm saying , is that I don't think a nice, potent, effective, and non-toxic opiate RC would reek any more havo in society than a benzo rc or stimulant rc. Since the people using would likely be opiate addicts already..
 

Hammilton

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If you don't see the difference, you're effectively retarded.

The difference is that if I swallow 2 or 3x a normal recreational dose of etizolam, I'm going to act retarded, pass out and have no memory.

If I take 2 or 3x a normal dose of mephedrone, I'm gonna have a shitty night filled with anxiety, delirium and maybe some chest pain.

I do that with an opiate my wife will be casket shopping tomorrow.
 

sekio

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In light of my closing of the ADD thread on this drug because of a bitter dislike for discussion of novel opioids, here's some hard data because nobody else seems to be doing any sort of research.

Structural SAR observations, related compounds


This molecule looks a lot like fentanyl and relatives (carfentanyl) except with the piperidine group rotated around a bit. The phenethyl substitution & presence of an electronegative group very near the phenyl ring is what makes me say this. It also looks like anilieridine., which used to be marketed as an opioid.

This compound contains a sulfonamide linkage, which makes it unsuitable for people with sulfa drug allergies.

The absence of polar moieties on the compound also suggest it will have a large Kow (octanol/water partition coefficient), meaning it will be redistributed to fatty tissues and will be expected to be poorly excereted in urine. However the possibility remains that there could be otser secondary metabolites as well.

Data on analgesic activity/potency

(from the patent)
Doses needed for effective inhibition of phenylquinone writhing (i.e. dose needed to produce analgetic effect in rats)
W-15 = 0.007 mg/kg (~5.5x morphine)
morphine sulphate = 0.038 mg/kg
aspirin = 50 mg/kg
dextropropoxyphene = 56 mg/kg (1/1500 the potency of morphine)
This suggests the analegsic effect will be rather strong, similar to oxycodone but stronger (when administered systematicaly). Doses are likely in the single millligrams to tens of milligrams. Given the high Kow, and lack of metabolically labile groups, duration could be reasonably expected to be long.

Next stop - a literature search. But sekio, aren't you supposed to speculate wildly rather than basing your claims on fact? I know, right!

Refs
Wiki

US patent 4468403 - Analgesic substituted piperidylidene-2-sulfon(cyan)amide derivatives
 
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orgone

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Wow thank you Sekio... I don't understand structure enough but I do know what Sulfa Drug allergies include. I'm allergic to a lot of the penicillin family. I'll be sure to avoid this substance completely.

Thank you for this information!!
 

PANDAmonium

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The absence of polar moieties on the compound also suggest it will have a large Kow (octanol/water partition coefficient), meaning it will be redistributed to fatty tissues and will be expected to be poorly excereted in urine. However the possibility remains that there could be otser secondary metabolites as well.
The sulfanomide bond will be easily cleaved by liver enzymes. It's been a few years since O-chem, but I'm pretty sure the results of that cleavage will be polar, so the duration may not be particularly long. I think it will have a similar half life to fent.

Is the half life mentioned in the research article that first published this chemical? I can't seem to find it.
 
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walterdini

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I just don't see the difference btwn an RC opiate and an rx or illicit opiate like oxy and heroin. Is an rc opiate more dangerous b/c it is sold in specific concentrations which may not be accurate? If this wasn't an issue, then how is an rc opiate any more dangerous than oxycodone or morphine? I just don't get the argument why ppl advocate getting rid of rc opiates but not for also getting rid of diverted rx opiates

And ps, thank u for the info seiko!
 

sekio

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how is an rc opiate any more dangerous than oxycodone or morphine
Oxycodone has been around and in use in humans for 100+ years, morphine/codeine for 200+. These new opioids have not even been in regular use for 5 years. There's just not enough evidence yet that these are any safer than pre-existing opioids, in fact, the lack of information makes using rc's more risky. If you wanted to use morphine, you would be able to look up a dosage and effects no problem. With new RC opioids, you don't know and you have to guess. Every time you use a totally novel drug that has never been tested in humans, you are taking a risk.

The fact that these drugs are sold on the gray market, and quality control problems could kill people, do not help...

Also, penicillin is not a sulfa drug. Sulfa drugs are a family of anttibiotics that are generally not used any more.

Part 2 of the W-15 info pack.
A cursory literature search reveals essentially nothing other than the US patent (& a corresponding Canadian one which is identical) and a few papers on synthesis of related compounds (but nothing on biological activity). This makes this a "true research chemical": there exists practically no publically available data showing human usage of any sort.

A related compound, W-18, supposedly surfaced a year ago, (thankfully) it looks like nobody actually did anything with it though.

So, for now. There are a couple of unanswered questions.
1. Half life.
2. Bioavaibility
3. What other actions does it possess? (related cmpds are antidepressants/antiprotozoals/antihelminitics (dewormers))
4. Metabolites?
5. Toxicity? LD50? The patent suggests it is "nontoxic" but...

Basically the whole ADME&T (Absorbtion, Distribution, Metabolism, Excretion, and Toxicity) series of tests needs to be done before this is a good "drug". Right now it's just a lead compound.
 
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mllx

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Nov 11, 2011
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Today I got 1 gram W-15 (35% w/w). I'll send 30 mg to Energy Control today.
For novel compounds they usually spend more time analyzing it, I'll post results ASAP.
 
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