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Opioids vegetarian bupe

Mishmashed

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
51
Hi I'm currently on bupe but am prescribed the espranor brand which are the ones that melt on the top of the tongue. I've recently turned vegetarian but my meds contain gelatin from cattle. Other than subutex which they refuse to prescribe, does any1 know of any vegetarian alternatives available in the UK
I would of thought it was my human rights to have an alternative prescribed but there been arsey about things.
Thanks and any advice would be appreciated ✌
 

PrincessDiz

Banríon na Fothrach
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
845
Location
Ireland
There should be bupe tablets that do not contain gelatin just ask your pharmacist or dr.

Just to say though, every medication you take is tested on animals so none would be vegetarian or vegan anyway if you think about it.
 

draculic acid69

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 22, 2019
Messages
1,268
Hi I'm currently on bupe but am prescribed the espranor brand which are the ones that melt on the top of the tongue. I've recently turned vegetarian but my meds contain gelatin from cattle. Other than subutex which they refuse to prescribe, does any1 know of any vegetarian alternatives available in the UK
I would of thought it was my human rights to have an alternative prescribed but there been arsey about things.
Thanks and any advice would be appreciated ✌
Tell them you want the shit without the beef gelatine in it.maybe them not giving u the vegetarian option violates some of your rights and could be cause for some sort of lawsuit.look into it.consult a lawyer
 

Mishmashed

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
51
Tell them you want the shit without the beef gelatine in it.maybe them not giving u the vegetarian option violates some of your rights and could be cause for some sort of lawsuit.look into it.consult a lawyer
Thats exactly what I said, they tried giving me the BS that it maybe a vegetarian gelatin,so I rang the pharma company up and spoke with them. need I say the prescriber didn't like me doing this.An ye I will speak with a solicitor about this as my habits got out if control since I became a veggie. 1 my habits a bit much to take them ATM and also I don't want to put meat products into my body.
 

PrincessDiz

Banríon na Fothrach
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
845
Location
Ireland
Thats exactly what I said, they tried giving me the BS that it maybe a vegetarian gelatin,so I rang the pharma company up and spoke with them. need I say the prescriber didn't like me doing this.An ye I will speak with a solicitor about this as my habits got out if control since I became a veggie. 1 my habits a bit much to take them ATM and also I don't want to put meat products into my body.
Why can your prescriber not give you one without it? Have they said there are no alternatives available?
 

OpiateKiller

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
676
While I admire your dedication to vegetarianism, I think this is a losing battle. It is sad they won’t prescribe subutex, but they’re tired of hearing excuses of people trying to get subutex for abuse purposes.

But I agree we should be prescribed what we need and want. It’s ridiculous. I mean even Jails in America have to have Jewish / Hebrew / vegetarian options for inmates I believe. So I’d hope a UK doctor would do the same.
 

PrincessDiz

Banríon na Fothrach
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
845
Location
Ireland
Gelatin is a by product of the meat industry if that makes it more comfortable for you to take. They don’t kill cows for gelatin, it would go to waste otherwise. I was a vegan for 24 years but even I took medication with animal products because it was a bit hypocritical of me to be taking meds that were tested on animals anyway.
 

Mishmashed

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
51
Why can your prescriber not give you one without it? Have they said there are no alternatives available?
yea there is plenty of alternatives but there stubborn as hell, they must think I wanna snort it or something, thing is the wafers I'm getting ATM are very water soluble and easier to take intrenasaly if I don't mind a mint sting on the nose.
 

Mishmashed

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
51
Gelatin is a by product of the meat industry if that makes it more comfortable for you to take. They don’t kill cows for gelatin, it would go to waste otherwise. I was a vegan for 24 years but even I took medication with animal products because it was a bit hypocritical of me to be taking meds that were tested on animals anyway.
I hear you but it's more about principle now as I worked as an advocate for the methadone Alliance 10years ago. it doesnt have to be subutex a generic bupe would be fine.
 

CfZrx

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
2,397
Location
East St. Paul
there's a bupe that you can just put on TOP of your tongue?? Rad! I looked it up :) So would it hit even harder if you dissolved under the tongue, and with some 120 proof alcohol?
 

HeadphonesandLSD

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Messages
1,168
AFAIK the strips are mainly being produced this way still due to patents (the same family that got America hooked on Oxycontin owns the patent for bupe strips). There are generics that come in tablet form. Ask your doctor if you can be switched over to them.
 

TargetX

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Messages
78
Thats exactly what I said, they tried giving me the BS that it maybe a vegetarian gelatin,so I rang the pharma company up and spoke with them. need I say the prescriber didn't like me doing this.An ye I will speak with a solicitor about this as my habits got out if control since I became a veggie. 1 my habits a bit much to take them ATM and also I don't want to put meat products into my body.
Yes because what we need is more totally frivolous lawsuits aimed at a health service under pressure. I think it's true that people who get their treatments and medication for free feel entitled and don't appreciate how easy and great they have it. Think less about your "rights" and demands and more about how great it is that you are able to get the treatment and meds that you get, beef gelatine or no. There are millions of people the world over who would be over the moon to be in your situation. There are instances when it is right to take a doctor or the health service to court: negligence, treatment without consent, using the wrong drug. If they were refusing to put you on buprenorphine or refusing to take you off I could understand, but this is such a petty, insignificant "problem". Work with your prescriber, with your pharmacist, not against them. You say you recently became vegetarian? New converts are often the most zealous, you might find that as you adapt to your new lifestyle, trivial issues such as this become far less of an issue, you don't want to ruin your relationship with your doctor over this. Find out how to appeal to someone higher in the management, not suing them. Anyway...

Some questions for you and questions for you to ask your prescriber: Is the prescription specifically for Espranor? Why do they prescribe this specifically? Do they use it for everyone under their care receiving buprenorphine? If not, what is the criteria that determines who gets generic tablets vs Espranor? Are you required to take the espranor in the pharmacy (supervised consumption)? How long have you been in treatment? Have you been compliant?

I really can't understand why they are giving you this over generic bupe. It is significantly more expensive, offers no advantages in a community setting and you don't want to take it due to the gelatin. Sure it dissolves quicker, which can be an advantage if the pharmacy has a lot of patients, but In my area the prescriber states the tablets are to be crushed before being given for supervised consumption and pharmacies are more than happy to do so, as it takes much less time to dissolve and be absorbed. You've every right to ask for the generic, since it's the same drug taken in basically the same way. They would have to up your dose if you switched as espranor has a higher bioavailability compared to the generic tablets, but that's no issue either. Most NHS CCGs either flat out refuse to prescribe it, citing cost and lack of advantages or restrict it to use only in a narrow set of circumstances. Espranor: Do not prescribe Espranor Report
 

Mishmashed

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
51
They gave me 2 reasons that I checked out and as I suspected they are BS Espranor is apparently cheaper! This makes me think there in a contract with Martindale pharmaceuticals. They tried to tell me it was a vegetarian based gelatin(pmsl) so I rang Martindale up and they were clear it is suitable for Muslims but not vegetarians as it's bovine beef gelatin from cattle. There other reasons are you can snort generics, they are naive and obviously aren't aware that espranor dissolves in water and is easily taken intrenasaly and there other reason was they can't guarantee a constant supply. I spoke to the pharmacy and they said this is not the case!
I pick up fortnightly due to lockdown but usually weekly as all my UT,a have been negative for morphine.
I've been in treatment since 1998 but they have it down as 2002 for some reason. I've also worked for them in the past. since then I've been on concentrated meth 10mg/1ml @ 14ml pd so 140mg which is blue, then mxl (morphine sulphate)700mg p/d which was for pain but prescribed by a service for addiction pffttt... then back onto methadone 10/1 and some 1/1 as I'm intolerant to something in regular meth app they tried to reduce the concentrate and see how much normal meth I could tolerate as higher doses caused bigger issues,then finally onto Espranor in Oct 2019. I turned veggie after Xmas. Hope this helps paint a picture and thanks for the advice.
I've no idea why west Sussex nhs don't prescribe espranor??? im up near Leeds so different guidelines I guess.
 

CfZrx

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
2,397
Location
East St. Paul
They gave me 2 reasons that I checked out and as I suspected they are BS Espranor is apparently cheaper! This makes me think there in a contract with Martindale pharmaceuticals. They tried to tell me it was a vegetarian based gelatin(pmsl) so I rang Martindale up and they were clear it is suitable for Muslims but not vegetarians as it's bovine beef gelatin from cattle. There other reasons are you can snort generics, they are naive and obviously aren't aware that espranor dissolves in water and is easily taken intrenasaly and there other reason was they can't guarantee a constant supply. I spoke to the pharmacy and they said this is not the case!
I pick up fortnightly due to lockdown but usually weekly as all my UT,a have been negative for morphine.
I've been in treatment since 1998 but they have it down as 2002 for some reason. I've also worked for them in the past. since then I've been on concentrated meth 10mg/1ml @ 14ml pd so 140mg which is blue, then mxl (morphine sulphate)700mg p/d which was for pain but prescribed by a service for addiction pffttt... then back onto methadone 10/1 and some 1/1 as I'm intolerant to something in regular meth app they tried to reduce the concentrate and see how much normal meth I could tolerate as higher doses caused bigger issues,then finally onto Espranor in Oct 2019. I turned veggie after Xmas. Hope this helps paint a picture and thanks for the advice.
I've no idea why west Sussex nhs don't prescribe espranor??? im up near Leeds so different guidelines I guess.
Hi MM, so can you just put it under your tongue even though it's designed to be on top?
 

JessFR

Sr. Moderator: AADD, H&R
Staff member
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
8,331
In my experience. Most doctors absolutely despise doing anything they haven't done a hundred times before.

They don't give a shit about your preferences, they don't give a shit about wasting your time (God forbid you waste theirs though).

And if you ask them to exercise even the slightest bit of judgement, to act like a person instead of a robot, they just give you bullshit excuses.

It sucks but I've experienced it countless times over countless different issues.
 

Mishmashed

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
51
there's a bupe that you can just put on TOP of your tongue?? Rad! I looked it up :) So would it hit even harder if you dissolved under the tongue, and with some 120 proof alcohol?
It's absorbed into the body through a different way, I can't remember the name but it's absorbed differently to the sublingual tabs so no is most likely the answer. sorry
 

Mishmashed

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
51
In my experience. Most doctors absolutely despise doing anything they haven't done a hundred times before.

They don't give a shit about your preferences, they don't give a shit about wasting your time (God forbid you waste theirs though).

And if you ask them to exercise even the slightest bit of judgement, to act like a person instead of a robot, they just give you bullshit excuses.

It sucks but I've experienced it countless times over countless different issues.
yup it does, worst thing is I sat in on the prescibers job interview with HR and recommended the guy back in 2009. I did seasonal work for the company and ran a forum for users rights. it was called kuf Kirklees users forum where we encouraged ppl to challenge any bad stereotyping of service users.
 
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