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Vegan vs Veggie vs Meat eaters?

Markomarkh

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Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
497
There seems to be more of an agenda to push Vegan and veggie food and lifestyles now. I cooked my self a veggie homemade curry the other day and loved it more than a takeaway curry. But is there an agenda to push veganism onto us and why? Seems that veggie recipes are popular at the moment. What you think?
 

emkee_reinvented

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Joined
Jan 27, 2009
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In the goo
Fuch yeah, do you love our planet and want to continue human extistance on it.

Then eating meat is polution factor nr. 1 exhaust of car's, planes and factory's takin a humble second place.

You could litterrally shower for hours and not resembly polute the planet as by eating bacon on a double cheese burger.

So yes.
 

MJ420

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Joined
Jan 12, 2020
Messages
154
It's better for the environment and healthier and cruelty free.
I used to eat meat when I hunted it, now i live in a city and eat little meat. Luckily my family in northern Canada keeps me going in moose/caribou because I don't support factory farms.
I'm native so it's against my beliefs to torture an animal to feed me.
It should be strongly advised, factory farms are cruel
 

JessFR

Moderator: CEPS
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Oct 22, 2012
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6,943
No there's no fucking agenda. There's money and people being people.

People are people and they get into these fads, and right now veganism is big.
And companies are companies and they don't like looking at having less money and hearing the answer "well it's because a lot of people are vegans now and won't buy your food".

So what do they do? They offer more vegan food so they'll make more money again.

Not everything has some sinister motive. Sometimes the answer is exactly as obvious as it looks.

It's better for the environment
Is it? Maybe in some respects. But something increasingly obvious is that vegans actually do still want meat, provided it isn't actually meat. How much energy and water goes into processing a fake meat substitute?

I dunno, but I see reason for some healthy skepticism. It wouldn't be the first time environmental claims turn out to be missing all the hidden energy costs.
 
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novaveritas

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Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
487
Fuch yeah, do you love our planet and want to continue human extistance on it.

Then eating meat is polution factor nr. 1 exhaust of car's, planes and factory's takin a humble second place.

You could litterrally shower for hours and not resembly polute the planet as by eating bacon on a double cheese burger.

So yes.
Meat production itself is minor, last I looked cows didn't emit CFCs HFCs PFHs, PCBs PM10s or PAHs. Meat production can happen on land that is not suitable for arable and grazing animals are critically important for ecosystems.

So if you want to sit in your righteous bubble convincing yourself that your veggie lifestyle is saving the planet just go for it. It isn't true.

Good for correctly identifying that showers are polluting, maybe you should cut down on your shower habit too. The righteous shall smell bad and have B12 deficiency so sayeth the lord.

How dare you!
 
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JGrimez

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Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
2,795
The anti-meat propaganda is strong and based on lies.

We need animal products to achieve optimal health and they're trying to tell us that they're unhealthy.

Next they'll be telling us that bioavailable B12 can be found in dirt.

Here is someone who knows what they're talking about debunking the latest vegan propaganda:
 

G_Chem

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Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
1,451
I love how everything wrong in the world is meats fault... Pollution? Meat. Diseases? Meat. Lack of motivation and constantly sitting on ones phone staring at it like a moron? Meat. Fires in S.A.? Meat.

It’s fucking ridiculous and watching how many vegans fall apart is astounding.

And great point about the processed foods. I love when vegans try to tell me how much healthier they are or how much better they eat. Then they pull out their milk substitute, have a piece of frozen daiya pizza, and stab a needle of b12 into themselves. Sounds so healthy and “natural”.

Living healthy and natural is eating whole foods that are preferably locally sourced. Cooking/baking as much of your food as you can. Micheal Pollan style, I like one thing he says.. “You can have your cake, have your donuts, so long as you bake and cook it all yourself.” That statement couldn’t be more true.

Meat is essential, I’ve watched so many vegans think they are getting healthy while simultaneously going frail, getting wrinkles, early grey hair, teeth falling out. I guess if that’s what they want to do..

I’ll stick my diet plan that has me still looking like I’m in my lower 20’s, single digit body fat, ability to work long hours without caffeine and still go home to pump out a workout.

-GC
 

emkee_reinvented

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Joined
Jan 27, 2009
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In the goo
Meat production itself is minor, last I looked cows didn't emit CFCs HFCs PFHs, PCBs PM10s or PAHs. Meat production can happen on land that is not suitable for arable and grazing animals are critically important for ecosystems.

So if you want to sit in your righteous bubble convincing yourself that your veggie lifestyle is saving the planet just go for it. It isn't true.

Good for correctly identifying that showers are polluting, maybe you should cut down on your shower habit too. The righteous shall smell bad and have B12 deficiency so sayeth the lord.

How dare you!
How dare you contradicting the fact the meat industry is the most influencing factor influencing our health of the earth. Though planes, cars and industrie contribute but they are runners up.

About the showering comparing with an day meat One meat equals a month long 1 hour daily shower roughly and simplisticy put, Caprice?
 

Gormur

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Joined
Jan 20, 2009
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Pasadena
I don't know. I guess i'm sympathetic towards it, since i have celiac disease. I definitely could be vegan. I have trouble digesting meat and it's rare that i even have it. It just makes me so damned tired afterwards

I just think now we finally have close to enough variety for veganism to work. I mean on a commercial consumer level

Hope this post makes sense
 

atara

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Joined
Apr 1, 2010
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not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent
No there's no fucking agenda. There's money and people being people.
A reasonable position that I would have believed until last month:


That flurry of pro-vegan Netflix documentaries apparently hasn't been a coincidence.
 

novaveritas

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
487
How dare you contradicting the fact the meat industry is the most influencing factor influencing our health of the earth. Though planes, cars and industrie contribute but they are runners up.

About the showering comparing with an day meat One meat equals a month long 1 hour daily shower roughly and simplisticy put, Caprice?
10/10 for sarc or 10/10 for comedy if you are not being sarc.

Caprice is a blonde former model,
Capisce or capiche is italian or mob for understand. Bene?

How dare you!
 

novaveritas

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
487
A reasonable position that I would have believed until last month:


That flurry of pro-vegan Netflix documentaries apparently hasn't been a coincidence.
Both sides no doubt are busy lobbying like crazy. The industrial meat industry and the veggie industry on the other there are huge sums involved.

Do not believe a single thing nutritionists say. Ever.

Their recommendations change over time, take butter or other dairy fats, it was the devils work. Hydrogenated vegetable oils were supposed to be healthier, then someone realized that trans fats which are almost exclusively in hydrogenated vegetable oil are bad news.

High cholesterol low cholesterol, high carb, low carb high protein, low glycaemic carb, Fermented foods, they are all fads. Eat a balanced diet, cook from fresh and you will not go far wrong. You will of course die as a consequence of eating but you will also die if you don't eat.

Other wonder foods include rape seed oil which likely causes damage to heart muscle, soya bean oil which causes dementia. High fructose corn syrup vs cane sucrose (HFCS causes obesity and diabetes). Peanut oil which contains aflatoxins, known carcinogens. and so on

There also is a bunch of supposed truths about cholesterol or saturated fats which have zero solid evidence supporting them, but this is not the place go into the consequences of science for hire.
 

DopeM

Casual Observer
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
1,453
Even my wife keeps it to < 3 min on avg and only when necessary.

I completely agree with the fad nutrion advice. Keep it as close to whole and lightly cooked as possible.
 

novaveritas

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
487
The numbers are interesting,
A shower energy wise is something like 9 KW and 15lpm The water purification and transport cost is not included

so a 5 min shower is approx 0.7KWhr 2.7 MJ of energy 0.375Kg - 0.675kg CO2 depending on the power generation mix.
A 1hr long shower is 4.5 Kg CO2

compare that to a car:

A car travelling for 5 minutes at 60 kph travels 5km At 4 litres per 100km (normal car) 0.2 l of fuel consumed this is 0.17 kg and is 0.56 kg CO2. 3.3kg CO2 per kg Gasoline (this varies but is about right) This number doesn't include the energy needed to make the fuel and get the fuel to the car.

If your car is a Tesla and electric it is using energy mix that is roughly 0.5 Kg CO2 per KWh, 18KWh per 100 Km, 0.9 KWhr per 5 minutes 0.45 Kg CO2 best case

So it is only marginally more energy wasteful to go drive your car round in circles rather than having a shower.

1 hr car journeys are common, 1 hr showers less so.

Beef is approximately 18-20 Kg CO2 per Kg But the last car I drove was not fueled by beef, it burned diesel at 15 l per day 14kg of fuel at 3.15 kg direct CO2 per Kg of Fuel = 44.1 kg of CO2 I did not eat 2.2Kg of beef or have a 10 hour long shower. So the diesel was the biggest part of my CO2 footprint those days.

Save the planet live closer to where you work.
 

atara

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Joined
Apr 1, 2010
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not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent
How dare you contradicting the fact the meat industry is the most influencing factor influencing our health of the earth. Though planes, cars and industrie contribute but they are runners up.
Agriculture is responsible for about 9% of US GHG emissions; about a third of that is unrelated to meat. Other first-world countries are largely similar, although they may spend less or more on heating depending on climate, and more or less on transportation depending on population density.

Some people like to pretend that data averaged over the human population, which shows a larger fraction for meat at about 25%, ought to apply to Westerners, but it does not. I am obviously responsible for and capable of controlling my own emissions and not the emissions of someone in Uganda. Rich countries' emissions are overwhelmingly (>75% )related to fossil fuel usage, roughly evenly distributed among transportation, heating and electricity generation.

Furthermore, it's not like we can expect Ugandans to live in poverty forever. As the world improves, the fraction of emissions related to meat will drop, unless we specifically target emissions related to fossil fuels -- which is exactly what we should do and are doing.

Frankly, a lot of vegan propaganda regarding climate change is bad for the world because it muddies the waters about climate change -- allowing the fossil fuel industry to escape responsibility -- and the inconsistency of messaging about climate change is a principal reason that greenhouse-effect-deniers still have prominence. Hippies show up with distorted information like "the most effective thing you can do to lower your emissions is to stop eating meat" (if we ignore all of the more effective things, like, say, moving to a warm climate) and then people who care too much about stuff being wrong (guilty!) end up arguing with them, which is just ammunition for the right-wing story that global warming is "disputed" and policy approaches are "Chinese plots" to hurt the US economy.

It's exhausting to deal with this nonsense and it makes it much harder to have a useful conversation about the kinds of policy and technology that we do need, and how we can preserve economic competitiveness while implementing it. Meat replacements would be nice, but we already have a long-term solution in the works (lab-grown meat), and in the short term meat just isn't that big of a deal. Focus on meat is a distraction from the real problem of fossil fuel use.
 
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