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Using MDMA as a sleep aid?

BassOne

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Apr 7, 2021
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12
Yeah you had said the caps were 1/4 oz. My math was incorrect too I meant 7 grams.
Yeah it's hard to know exactly. It's the smallest gel cap I believe you can get and it's about three-quarters full so there's nothing "fat" about it I find.
But I think a lot of this stuff is relative. One person's fat is another person's skinny LOL
 

deficiT

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Yeah it's hard to know exactly. It's the smallest gel cap I believe you can get and it's about three-quarters full so there's nothing "fat" about it I find.
But I think a lot of this stuff is relative. One person's fat is another person's skinny LOL
Well if the MDMA is of any decent quality, 250mg would be a large amount to put in one cap, as a standard dose is 100mg. That's what I meant.

I think you're alone on this though, I've never heard of anyone using empathogens to fall asleep. Your tolerance is either high to the point that it doesn't work on you anymore, or the mdma is really poor quality or adulterated.
 

PriestTheyCalledHim

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Oct 7, 2005
Messages
12,769
MDMA/MDA are stimulants. You will not sleep, relax, or fall asleep from them. I have never used them and I have insomnia.

It is like using Amphetamine, METH, or coke and expecting to fall asleep.
 

PriestTheyCalledHim

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Oct 7, 2005
Messages
12,769
No. Frequent mdma use even at low doses is a terrible idea and will fuck your brain up big time
What does frequent MDA use do? I have a bisexual friend that took it a lot in the 1970s and 1980s on weekends when he went to discos, clubbing, and to raves. He told me when he tried MDMA in the 1990s how compared to MDA it was less stimulating, less visual, and he found the effects more subtle and was just more open or talkative socially like with alcohol while on it.
 

Tramalala

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Joined
Mar 20, 2021
Messages
56
MDMA/MDA are stimulants. You will not sleep, relax, or fall asleep from them. I have never used them and I have insomnia.

It is like using Amphetamine, METH, or coke and expecting to fall asleep.
Lol, I know a guy who could sleep after doing amphetamine. I believe it's possible when you have a certain form of ADHD. People with ADHD tend to become more calm when taking certain stimulants.
 

December Flower

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Joined
Oct 22, 2020
Messages
955
Well if the MDMA is of any decent quality, 250mg would be a large amount to put in one cap, as a standard dose is 100mg. That's what I meant.

I think you're alone on this though, I've never heard of anyone using empathogens to fall asleep. Your tolerance is either high to the point that it doesn't work on you anymore, or the mdma is really poor quality or adulterated.
That is just too much for one dose, in my opinion. I was a frequent MDMA user for 3 years, and I always had the same system. First 20mg, 30 minutes later 50mg, 30 minutes later 100mg, 30 minutes later 100mg again


A total of 280-300mg, but taken over this time just always had a much bigger effect on me than say taking 300mg at once. I've had many people experience the same, trying my system themselves. It would stay much longer in my system (about 48 hours, although sometimes I would redose 100mg after 24), and the comedown was essentially non-existant. 0 Depression after. At least for me, that only came after 3 years of very frequent use(not daily, but about 2 times a week for 48 hours), which was the point where I stopped.

@ topic: I think it would be a miserable sleep aid. Things get too distracting
I was a slight insomniac, until I invented a game which I play in my imagination to induce sleep. It's a metaphor for what you're supposed to do, which is turning the lights of in your conscious mind. I just picture that in my mind and focus on that, seeing a bunch of lights that are turned off one by one. The mind is such an important part of insomnia, because it's the only part truly holding you from sleep. You can be 0% tired, and just have a nap for 30 minutes. I'd play around with a few mind games and see if you can find the right one, the right image, the right sound to make you sleep.
If that doesn't work there's always something you can imagine that just genuinely calms you down. Don't try ladies, you'll never sleep. Puppies, kittens, I don't know. A waterfall, wait that might make you urinate. Tweeting birds, sunlight, music, laughter. If you have trouble sleeping, your mind is the first place to start. I've become strong opponent of inducing drugs of any kind, unless there is an absolute necessity, especially sleep aids and antipsychotics do more damage in the long-term, than just sitting yourself the fuck down and clearing your mind. When that's not enough, you go to a doctor and talk about your options.
 
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G_Chem

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Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
3,325
What does frequent MDA use do? I have a bisexual friend that took it a lot in the 1970s and 1980s on weekends when he went to discos, clubbing, and to raves. He told me when he tried MDMA in the 1990s how compared to MDA it was less stimulating, less visual, and he found the effects more subtle and was just more open or talkative socially like with alcohol while on it.

So you can use MDA more often than MDMA with less diminishing returns but the serotonin depletion is brutal. I’m not sure it’s necessarily as neurotoxic as others want to think but it definitely drains the pipes, you’ll feel too much MDA.

I remember my one buddy ate MDA a couple days in a row and the comedown he was actually physically sick like fever/chills, puking, tripping out, it wasn’t fun. But he rolled hard the whole time...

I like MDA, but it’s best mixed with MDMA. I usually use MDMA as the base empathogen then maybe add in some MDA or 5-MAPB.

-GC
 

PriestTheyCalledHim

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Messages
12,769
So you can use MDA more often than MDMA with less diminishing returns but the serotonin depletion is brutal. I’m not sure it’s necessarily as neurotoxic as others want to think but it definitely drains the pipes, you’ll feel too much MDA.

I remember my one buddy ate MDA a couple days in a row and the comedown he was actually physically sick like fever/chills, puking, tripping out, it wasn’t fun. But he rolled hard the whole time...

I like MDA, but it’s best mixed with MDMA. I usually use MDMA as the base empathogen then maybe add in some MDA or 5-MAPB.

-GC
Is it true high doses of MDMA in 100+mgs convert to MDA when taken or is this a myth?
 

G_Chem

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Joined
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Messages
3,325
Is it true high doses of MDMA in 100+mgs convert to MDA when taken or is this a myth?

The average MDMA dose converts 6-10% to MDA. This starts to go up based on a number of factors. Increased dosage, redoses, ambient temperature, and more.. I’ve seen numbers as high as ~33%.

I had one odd experience where if I had to estimate over 50% must have converted to MDA with how hard I was tripping off a batch of MDMA I was very familiar with.

The metabolism of MDMA starts to rely heavier on demethylation as it gets bogged down it seems.

-GC
 

AutoTripper

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Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
2,794
I'm a long time MDMA user, more than 20 years. I barely drink alcohol or use a lot of other drugs. Now I've read that MDMA can cause insomnia. And it probably has for me, but my sleep is always been screwy way before I was doing MDMA.
So of course after so much use it takes more to get me "high", but I take one small gel cap as an experiment to see how I would sleep.
I slept fantastic! 5 solid hours which is good for me, and felt like I could have slept a little more or pop right out of bed.
So I'm wondering what people's insight on this may be?
Has the MDMA cause my insomnia, but is now the cure? I strongly feel that my sleep issues are only a small part of my MDMA use.
And what I've learned, if I take one MDMA gel cap, I sleep great and feel great!

Do you think this is sustainable?
Do you think this is dangerous?
Thanks
Have you ever tried the much safer (understate-ment lol) cheap, available 5 http?

For many it’s surprisingly helpful with sleep.

So is good quality CBD Oil. Melatonin works for some. Cutting out all sleep (or even better, ideally for maximum melatonin production)- after dark Bluelight.

People use Bluelight shielding sunglasses for this, diff models to allow over glasses fit too.

I don’t do that, but to turn out all sources of Bluelight during sleep time, goes long ways as Bluelight essentially prevents the manufacturing of Melatonin.



Now I took silly amounts of MDMA, so I’m no preacher. But it has it’s well known perils.

I never took it or viewed it as a sleep aid, though it’s not alien at all to me it could work that way.

However, I think it’s a little daft, insane even, to employ the use of very neurotoxic MDMA, a divine experience, as a sleep aid type supplement.
Simple bananas too, before bed, release lots of tryptophan and massively facilitate sleep.

Even if there were no other, perfectly safe and sustainable avenues to explore,I would strongly urge against it.

But there are! And I’m not anti-MDMA at all.

I mean, the wheel was not invented to hang on a wall.
 

PriestTheyCalledHim

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
12,769
The average MDMA dose converts 6-10% to MDA. This starts to go up based on a number of factors. Increased dosage, redoses, ambient temperature, and more.. I’ve seen numbers as high as ~33%.

I had one odd experience where if I had to estimate over 50% must have converted to MDA with how hard I was tripping off a batch of MDMA I was very familiar with.

The metabolism of MDMA starts to rely heavier on demethylation as it gets bogged down it seems.

-GC
Ok I read this trip report where some guy took 400-500mg of MDMA and it sounds fun and sort of trippy to me. Or did he really take MDA?

 

PriestTheyCalledHim

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
12,769
Have you ever tried the much safer (understate-ment lol) cheap, available 5 http?

For many it’s surprisingly helpful with sleep.

So is good quality CBD Oil. Melatonin works for some. Cutting out all sleep (or even better, ideally for maximum melatonin production)- after dark Bluelight.

People use Bluelight shielding sunglasses for this, diff models to allow over glasses fit too.

I don’t do that, but to turn out all sources of Bluelight during sleep time, goes long ways as Bluelight essentially prevents the manufacturing of Melatonin.



Now I took silly amounts of MDMA, so I’m no preacher. But it has it’s well known perils.

I never took it or viewed it as a sleep aid, though it’s not alien at all to me it could work that way.

However, I think it’s a little daft, insane even, to employ the use of very neurotoxic MDMA, a divine experience, as a sleep aid type supplement.
Simple bananas too, before bed, release lots of tryptophan and massively facilitate sleep.

Even if there were no other, perfectly safe and sustainable avenues to explore,I would strongly urge against it.

But there are! And I’m not anti-MDMA at all.

I mean, the wheel was not invented to hang on a wall.
L-Theanine also works. I never took the supplements. I just drink green tea.
 

G_Chem

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
3,325

PriestTheyCalledHim

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Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
12,769
That’s too high a dose for sure. I wouldn’t recommend taking a large dose of MDMA to get there though, much safer to just take MDA.

-GC
Does MDMA usually have semi-psychedelic effects like the trip report described?

Is MDA still produced? My friends that took MDA in the 1970s and 1980s, when they took MDMA they said how MDMA was super overrated and MDA was much more enjoyable.

Does MDA make everything dreamlike the way high doses of Psilocybin mushrooms do?
 

December Flower

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 22, 2020
Messages
955
Does MDMA usually have semi-psychedelic effects like the trip report described?
Definitely semi-psychedelic. The way you senses expand is very psychedelic. The way how music sounds, or basically how anything you touch feels amazing and super fluffy.

I've also had full-blown hallucinations on higher dosed MDMA a couple of times. I kept seeing transparent people that I could walk through, but they'd still talk to me or each other. One particular MDMA experience was of a floating eye that kept staring at me, following me everywhere. Whenever I looked at the eye, it would disappear into a corner of the room, and resurface later.
 

BlueBull

Moderator: M&ED
Staff member
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
Messages
2,952
Does MDMA usually have semi-psychedelic effects like the trip report described?

Is MDA still produced? My friends that took MDA in the 1970s and 1980s, when they took MDMA they said how MDMA was super overrated and MDA was much more enjoyable.

Does MDA make everything dreamlike the way high doses of Psilocybin mushrooms do?
Not semi-psychedelic even. You can have full on balls-to-the-walls trips on MDMA if you take waaaaay too much, there's nothing semi about it in my case. I've written a report on that at some point, I'll look it up later, on my phone now. It does depend on the person though, I'm pretty susceptible to that but I've had MDMA 'trips' that were more intense than a medium to high dose LSD or mushroom trip. It seems to be amplified by weed in my case and accompanied by lots of confusion. It usually starts in the last part of the roll, presumably when the converted MDA has had time to build up
 

AutoTripper

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
2,794
Yeah you only need about half a gram of very good MDMA to have psychedelic effects. Especially with cannabis.

Although, 5 MDMA white butterflies over 100 mg each, would feel like walking a child in the sunny park compared to 5 beige over 100 mg MDA Hexagons.

I realise now on reflection, the MDA pills would really lift you off the planet in a different way. Afterwards feeling you’ve been somewhere else. Marvelling back to certain, or entire points, of the rave.

Like this one dark Warehouse rave in London we went to. On the entrance, about £5 they asked if you had it, just two guys in that one warehouse room, leading 50 metres across into multiple other rooms with rigs- like an entrance and corridor.

Anyway, THEY were selling the pills. These small, hard, hexagons. Not the MDA Hexagons I was comparing above to the MDMA butterflies.

But these rave hexagons were unquestionably MDA. It is more dreamlike, dissociative, detached, very visual, really quite mental (in a good way) stuff.

Far less of a socially cohesive experience, but you would be quite content to just continually drift through your own mind and thoughts, like sitting up on a hill, feet dangling, enjoying the view until you’re bored and time to go home.

I took 7 of those MDA hexagons that rave plus 5 MDMA Heineken’s, about 2 grams of ketamine. Most of the night there, I actually knew very little lol!

I knew it was truly mental. But in those states, you literally forget you are a person, at a rave, dancing to techno.

No subconscious thoughts of anything else, like the previous, following day, normal life, society etc.

I often used to imagine I was at work, and it was my job, dancing in front of this big rig in a dark barn or warehouse!

I did that all night one time on mostly MDMA pills but some MDA in some of them I felt.

7 phenomenal Heineken stars, 5 White Hearts and a Smiley face, 2 grams ketamine again.

The difference though- following evening Sunday, after the MDA hexagon rave 13 pill total, by Midnight Sunday, hometown, around a house, I was still off my face, feeling electric in the afterglow like you do with LSD, actually feeling more communicative than when on the pills all night, as if you’ve processed loads of stuff, almost feel a little disconnected, head still in pure awe at the amazingness of the whole experience.

And totally off my tree still.

Now the other 13 pill rave, was in farmyard with barns, tractors, hay etc lol....I was so tripped out, nicely, I also thought it was my employed job to keep dancing.

I couldn’t have been higher on ecstasy all night. The morning sunrise I remember feeling I was in another dimension.

I mean, the whole thing was very intense and hallucinogenic, but more involved, sociable.

The difference too- by 7 pm Sunday evening, hometown friend’s house, from those mostly MDMA pills, despite reaching transcendental magical heights (I’d estimate 130 mg average per pill so 1.7 grams plus the ketamine), I recall feeling very different to the MDA Hexagon rave.

Much more grounded, returned, as if things had blended together, always in the present moment. Feeling very normal. And very good too.

I felt great after the MDA Hex’s, but not at all normal. It was like after a heavy trip where you could think back over it’s different stages for days, and would talk about it if you knew how.

So yes MDA is a much bigger “thing” overall and in entirety. But MDMA is it’s own Orange, with special functions. I can’t actually say, I would choose MDA of the two to take to Mars.

But I wouldn’t feel like I had drawn the short straw either. Lol, MDA tripping on the Red Planet.

Luckily I’ll never be faced with such a dilemma. I think there would be times I’d fancy and enjoy MDMA more, and vice versa.

Although- MDMA is for ALL occasions. MDA can be that bit more twisting and detaching.

I’ve given myself there, by reflection here after an unexpected deep cained 5 hour sleep following a heavy acid trip, a unique insight into some very specific differences between MDMA and MDA, just by comparing those two different raves.

I can revisit visually, walkthrough experience style, so many other pills which I can filter into definitely MDA, def MDMA, mixtures or not sures, plus MDE pills, with confidence, very distinct from both of those others.


Now if the OG hippy culture were turning their noses up at MDE, in comparison to their beloved MDA, then I’d agree with them.

But you can’t say, with sufficient experience and perspective, MDA is way better than MDMA, period!

It needs context as I’ve tried to provide.

Right, need get high on weed now and what not, totally wasted from acid still.
 
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PriestTheyCalledHim

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
12,769
Yeah you only need about half a gram of very good MDMA to have psychedelic effects. Especially with cannabis.

Although, 5 MDMA white butterflies over 100 mg each, would feel like walking a child in the sunny park compared to 5 beige over 100 mg MDA Hexagons.

I realise now on reflection, the MDA pills would really lift you off the planet in a different way. Afterwards feeling you’ve been somewhere else. Marvelling back to certain, or entire points, of the rave.

Like this one dark Warehouse rave in London we went to. On the entrance, about £5 they asked if you had it, just two guys in that one warehouse room, leading 50 metres across into multiple other rooms with rigs- like an entrance and corridor.

Anyway, THEY were selling the pills. These small, hard, hexagons. Not the MDA Hexagons I was comparing above to the MDMA butterflies.

But these rave hexagons were unquestionably MDA. It is more dreamlike, dissociative, detached, very visual, really quite mental (in a good way) stuff.

Far less of a socially cohesive experience, but you would be quite content to just continually drift through your own mind and thoughts, like sitting up on a hill, feet dangling, enjoying the view until you’re bored and time to go home.

I took 7 of those MDA hexagons that rave plus 5 MDMA Heineken’s, about 2 grams of ketamine. Most of the night there, I actually knew very little lol!

I knew it was truly mental. But in those states, you literally forget you are a person, at a rave, dancing to techno.

No subconscious thoughts of anything else, like the previous, following day, normal life, society etc.

I often used to imagine I was at work, and it was my job, dancing in front of this big rig in a dark barn or warehouse!

I did that all night one time on mostly MDMA pills but some MDA in some of them I felt.

7 phenomenal Heineken stars, 5 White Hearts and a Smiley face, 2 grams ketamine again.

The difference though- following evening Sunday, after the MDA hexagon rave 13 pill total, by Midnight Sunday, hometown, around a house, I was still off my face, feeling electric in the afterglow like you do with LSD, actually feeling more communicative than when on the pills all night, as if you’ve processed loads of stuff, almost feel a little disconnected, head still in pure awe at the amazingness of the whole experience.

And totally off my tree still.

Now the other 13 pill rave, was in farmyard with barns, tractors, hay etc lol....I was so tripped out, nicely, I also thought it was my employed job to keep dancing.

I couldn’t have been higher on ecstasy all night. The morning sunrise I remember feeling I was in another dimension.

I mean, the whole thing was very intense and hallucinogenic, but more involved, sociable.

The difference too- by 7 pm Sunday evening, hometown friend’s house, from those mostly MDMA pills, despite reaching transcendental magical heights (I’d estimate 130 mg average per pill so 1.7 grams plus the ketamine), I recall feeling very different to the MDA Hexagon rave.

Much more grounded, returned, as if things had blended together, always in the present moment. Feeling very normal. And very good too.

I felt great after the MDA Hex’s, but not at all normal. It was like after a heavy trip where you could think back over it’s different stages for days, and would talk about it if you knew how.

So yes MDA is a much bigger “thing” overall and in entirety. But MDMA is it’s own Orange, with special functions. I can’t actually say, I would choose MDA of the two to take to Mars.

But I wouldn’t feel like I had drawn the short straw either. Lol, MDA tripping on the Red Planet.

Luckily I’ll never be faced with such a dilemma. I think there would be times I’d fancy and enjoy MDMA more, and vice versa.

Although- MDMA is for ALL occasions. MDA can be that bit more twisting and detaching.

I’ve given myself there, by reflection here after an unexpected deep cained 5 hour sleep following a heavy acid trip, a unique insight into some very specific differences between MDMA and MDA, just by comparing those two different raves.

I can revisit visually, walkthrough experience style, so many other pills which I can filter into definitely MDA, def MDMA, mixtures or not sures, plus MDE pills, with confidence, very distinct from both of those others.


Now if the OG hippy culture were turning their noses up at MDE, in comparison to their beloved MDA, then I’d agree with them.

But you can’t say, with sufficient experience and perspective, MDA is way better than MDMA, period!

It needs context as I’ve tried to provide.

Right, need get high on weed now and what not, totally wasted from acid still.
How was the comedown/crash from all of that MDA/MDMA?

Also what was MDE like for you? Is it true it can be sort of sedating? I know people who took ecstasy pills/capsules that they said were like MDMA or more sedating but this is how the myth that heroin was put into pills/capsules came about.
 
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