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Opioids Using Loperamide to combat methadone withdrawal?

Vit D3 (lots)
Omega 3s (like fish oil, or flax seed oil if you're vegetarian, but make sure you get a good one and take lots)
L-Lysine (can potentiate benzos a bit so be aware of that)
L-Glutamine
Chelated magnesium (chelated magnesium is better absorbed and less laxative than regular magnesium, but if you find you get diarrhea lower the dose)
Potassium
Zinc

Some other things you could try:
Ashwagandha
Rhodiola
L-Phenylalanine
5-HTP
Vit C
Vit A
Kava

If you want you could tell me exactly what your symptoms are, including things you don't think are associated with stopping methadone, and I can better recommend specific supplements tailored to your individual needs and give you an idea about doses.

Thanks once again and I might as well thank you for next time too. I am sorry to hear what a hard time you have had. I know you want to be off all opioids but now that your system is clean kratom might work. I think at a very low dose it is as addictive as caffeine. Now that I am down to less than 2.5 grams two to three times a day I get a burst of energy almost like caffeine without the anxiety (and I have terrible anxiety!). I have never had a stimulant that I liked because I always feel like my body is working a million miles a minute but I don't have the energy to do the dishes, trash etc.... I think I could stop taking the kratom with no withdrawal because I only take it when I feel tired and sweaty. Nothing like what I was experiencing in full withdrawal. I am going to continue to taper to nothing because whatever ssri inhibitor is in kratom it works for me. I am off all my anti-depressants too (I quit taking those months ago and every month I have dropped an addiction every month. Cigarettes, caffeine and now methadone. I am going to let my body level out a little bit before I stop any remaining habits. I think too much change too fast is what causes us to withdrawal because it is not just opioids. I felt a very light benzo type withdrawal from either the gabapentin or the pregabalin. I only took them for about three weeks and very low doses. So any way I was saying that just a small dose of kratom takes away my pain and PAWS I literally have no symptoms and I will be down to 1 gram next week and zero the next. I will continue to keep it around for if I have a bad day and depression starts to set in then I may take a small dose. Or if my back is bothering me it will help alleviate the pain without having to go to the doctor run to the pharmacy and get addicted to whatever they give me. For me kratom and kratom alone works for pain and depression.

@SWIMMINGDANCER I am going to go grab some vitamins today. I really don't have any symptoms right now but we will see when I am done with my kratom taper. I still have anxiety but I have always had it since I was just a little kid. Plus I still have my benzo kick in a few months so that should be fun for I hear that is worse than opioids. 8(
<3 KICKIT
 
@SWIMMINGDANCER I am going to go grab some vitamins today. I really don't have any symptoms right now but we will see when I am done with my kratom taper. I still have anxiety but I have always had it since I was just a little kid. Plus I still have my benzo kick in a few months so that should be fun for I hear that is worse than opioids. 8(
<3 KICKIT

For anxiety and helping to quit benzos I'd especially recommend the L-lysine, kava and magnesium. Be careful when starting the kava and L-lysine as they might potentiate/synergize with benzos or gabapentin/pregabalin. When I have taken kava with benzos or gabapentin (especially gabapentin) I have noticed a huge synergy, and L-lysine seems to just more gently and subtly potentiate for me, but I had a friend who was taking clonazepam and said he felt like he took triple his dose when he took some L-lysine with it, so go with the assumption that these things might increase the effects of benzos or gabapentin/pregabalin. If they do for you perhaps that could help you with your taper. I've heard valerian and rhodiola recommended for benzo withdrawals but people seem to have mixed results. I personally find valerian very subtle, but I think some people take way bigger doses than me. L-theanine is another one some people use for anxiety.

I think you might want to avoid the L-phenylalanine and 5-HTP for now. Omega 3s and the other things I listed in the first list are a good idea for everyone though.

Thanks for your kind words and feel free to let me know if you have any other issues that come up when you quit kratom or start lowering your benzos, (or any other questions). You are doing a great job <3
 
First off I'd just like to say that I'm at break from work so I didn't have time to read through the whole thread but would like to put down my 2 cents on this topic and perhaps later I can read through everything and edit my post.

I am on methadone and have successfully used loperamide to combat methadone withdrawals on days when I missed a dose or even two. I didn't use any potentiator's or other chemicals that could help lope pass the BBB more easily (although I think I may have used omeparazole a few times and noticed no difference).

IME, Looeramide is a really great thing to have lying around for all those who are dependent on opiates, and it certainly does work with the stronger opiates/opioids such as methadone too. The thing to know about loperamide is that it doesn't completely obliterate withdrawal IMO (though it does at super high dosages for me), but rather makes the WD more of a background noise that is easy to ignore. It helps a lot with anxiety, insomnia, as well (of course) as stomach issues. I typically use a minimum of 60mg, though I find a dose between 80-145mg to be ideal. The relief is pretty long lasting as well. Side effects include blurred vision, headaches, nausea, dry mouth and other typical unpleasantries that most opioids have. I'll add more later.
 
First off I'd just like to say that I'm at break from work so I didn't have time to read through the whole thread but would like to put down my 2 cents on this topic and perhaps later I can read through everything and edit my post.

I am on methadone and have successfully used loperamide to combat methadone withdrawals on days when I missed a dose or even two. I didn't use any potentiator's or other chemicals that could help lope pass the BBB more easily (although I think I may have used omeparazole a few times and noticed no difference).

IME, Looeramide is a really great thing to have lying around for all those who are dependent on opiates, and it certainly does work with the stronger opiates/opioids such as methadone too. The thing to know about loperamide is that it doesn't completely obliterate withdrawal IMO (though it does at super high dosages for me), but rather makes the WD more of a background noise that is easy to ignore. It helps a lot with anxiety, insomnia, as well (of course) as stomach issues. I typically use a minimum of 60mg, though I find a dose between 80-145mg to be ideal. The relief is pretty long lasting as well. Side effects include blurred vision, headaches, nausea, dry mouth and other typical unpleasantries that most opioids have. I'll add more later.

Loperamide also worked great for my methadone detox/wd. I only took it the first five days but was able to taper from 120mg on day one all the way to 20mg on day five. I had also started my kratom so I am not sure if the 20mgs would have even held. Anyway yes it worked great I wish I had known about it a long time ago.
 
I had to go the this health food store yesterday because I am moving about three hours away. I know the owners very well so were very helpful. Can I post pictures of my meds? I will just read off everything that was not a vitamin.
L-Theanine 100mg Suntheanine twice daily with food,
True Calm - 45mg niacin, Vitamin B-6 8mg, Magnesium 13mg, GABA 200mg, Glycine 200mg, Taurine 200mg, Inositol 100mg, and Valerian-root 25mg three times a day without food or just before.
Ashawagandha 470mg twice daily with a meal and a glass of water.
L-Lysine 500mg three times daily with or between meals.
Kava I don't under stand the directions on this? suggested use
Shake Well Before Use
Two to five drops per day
take 30 to 40 drops in a little water

So what one am I supposed to do 5 or 40?

Anyway I tried to stop my kratom again after I got all the supplemets. I took all as prescribed. the day before yesterday was a blur because I came home and past out. I did not care for if I am sleeping I am not taking kratom. I slept for about ten to hours waking up periodically. I have not slept for more than four hours in the last month so this was very much needed. The next day I awoke and felt normal for about an hour so I took all my supplements as prescribed (by the label) and felt good enough do handle the day with no kratom, Pregabalin, Gabapentin and even ibuprofen. I hope this continue to works this is my third day on nothing but supplements from a health food store. I have had some really hard days but for the most part this was not very hard. If you research and talk with like-minded people you can beat this opioid addiction. There is way better pain relievers and euphoric supplements that there is no reason for us to be stuck on prescription medication. I watched my brother at 22yrs old check himself into the hospital because he was suicidal and now he can barely function at times. He is/was no more fucked up than me. He is also trying some of these medications after he has seen what they have done to me. We are both doing way better psychologically.

For anxiety and helping to quit benzos I'd especially recommend the L-lysine, kava and magnesium. Be careful when starting the kava and L-lysine as they might potentiate/synergize with benzos or gabapentin/pregabalin. When I have taken kava with benzos or gabapentin (especially gabapentin) I have noticed a huge synergy, and L-lysine seems to just more gently and subtly potentiate for me, but I had a friend who was taking clonazepam and said he felt like he took triple his dose when he took some L-lysine with it, so go with the assumption that these things might increase the effects of benzos or gabapentin/pregabalin. If they do for you perhaps that could help you with your taper. I've heard valerian and rhodiola recommended for benzo withdrawals but people seem to have mixed results. I personally find valerian very subtle, but I think some people take way bigger doses than me. L-theanine is another one some people use for anxiety.

I think you might want to avoid the L-phenylalanine and 5-HTP for now. Omega 3s and the other things I listed in the first list are a good idea for everyone though.

Thanks for your kind words and feel free to let me know if you have any other issues that come up when you quit kratom or start lowering your benzos, (or any other questions). You are doing a great job <3

Thank you! So now that I am down to just supplements can I still get dependency?
I am starting my benzo taper too because I have no bad withdrawal anymore. I have went from six 1mg Xanax a day to about three or four. Is that because the of the L-Lysine? And is it helping my taper or just increasing my tolerance?
If you know a taper method that worked for anyone else that would mean the world. I am going to try and go Xanax to Klonopin to Ativan. I think that is the easiest way from what I have read. I am going to save these supplements for when I get ready to jump from by benzos. Unless any of these will help me taper?<3

Also is the GABA as in Gabapentin or Pregaba all in the same?
 
Kava I don't under stand the directions on this? suggested use
Shake Well Before Use
Two to five drops per day
take 30 to 40 drops in a little water

I'm pretty sure that should say two to five times per day, not drops, meaning you would take 30-40 drops each time and take it 2-5 times a day. I'd start out with less drops per dose than that to see how it affects you first though. I'm just headed out but I'll answer your other questions tonight sometime :)
 
You really gotta check the amount of kavalactones in your kava products. They can vary greatly, and usually the health food items are shit.
 
Can I post pictures of my meds?
I don't think there is a need to and I'm not sure if OD really likes people posting photos (and if the photo links to a site that sells anything that's not allowed).

Anyway I tried to stop my kratom again after I got all the supplemets. I took all as prescribed. the day before yesterday was a blur because I came home and past out. I did not care for if I am sleeping I am not taking kratom. I slept for about ten to hours waking up periodically. I have not slept for more than four hours in the last month so this was very much needed. The next day I awoke and felt normal for about an hour so I took all my supplements as prescribed (by the label) and felt good enough do handle the day with no kratom, Pregabalin, Gabapentin and even ibuprofen. I hope this continue to works this is my third day on nothing but supplements from a health food store. I have had some really hard days but for the most part this was not very hard. If you research and talk with like-minded people you can beat this opioid addiction. There is way better pain relievers and euphoric supplements that there is no reason for us to be stuck on prescription medication. I watched my brother at 22yrs old check himself into the hospital because he was suicidal and now he can barely function at times. He is/was no more fucked up than me. He is also trying some of these medications after he has seen what they have done to me. We are both doing way better psychologically.
Wow, that's really good to hear :)

So now that I am down to just supplements can I still get dependency?
The only thing on your list I've ever heard of being dependence-causing is the kava and that's extremely rare and has been in people using very high doses every day for long periods of time. I've personally used kava long-term and then stopped abruptly with no problem, as have many people I've known. However since you are already dependent on benzos and I'm not sure the strength of your kava extract it's something to be aware of.

As for the other things, if your supplements help and you then stop taking them you may no longer feel as good, but that's more akin to, say, switching from eating healthy food to junk food as opposed to a drug dependence.

I am starting my benzo taper too because I have no bad withdrawal anymore. I have went from six 1mg Xanax a day to about three or four. Is that because the of the L-Lysine? And is it helping my taper or just increasing my tolerance?
All of those things you listed could potentially be helping with benzo withdrawal. L-lysine might potentiate benzos (not by increasing the blood levels etc but by possibly making their effects stronger at the receptor level), but it shouldn't do it by that much, and it shouldn't be raising your tolerance if you are lowering your benzo dose. Kava could synergize with benzos in some way as well. Although studies are unclear and contradict each other it's theorized that part of the way kava might work is sort of similar in action to a mild benzo [EDIT: See this post I made about kava helping new receptors to grow in animal studies]. I definitely think it is helpful and harm reduction to use these kinds of supplements to help you get off benzos, just try not to take huge amounts of the kava. I think it's fine to use them while tapering if you feel like it helps, just try to use the minimum amounts necessary and continue tapering the benzos relatively quickly if possible. The GABA is unclear, there are studies that say it doesn't pass the blood brain barrier, but presumably it is at least able to act peripherally (outside the brain and spine) so it could synergize with benzos in that way by making more GABA available - benzos work by enhancing the effect of GABA at GABA-A receptors. Theanine may increase GABA levels in the brain.

If you know a taper method that worked for anyone else that would mean the world. I am going to try and go Xanax to Klonopin to Ativan.
I would not do the Ativan personally. I would just taper using the Klonopin. Ativan is short-acting, gives you high levels/effects fast, then withdrawals come on fast, so it's like an up/down/up/down. Klonopin is long-acting, comes on more slowly and more gently and wears off slowly and gently so it's more suited to tapering. I'm not sure what dosage of pills you have or how easy they are to break into fractions? The clonazepam (generic Klonopin) I had were 0.5mg and very easy to break into smaller pieces so I could do a taper like 2mg, 1.75mg, 1.5mg, 1.5mg, 1mg, 0.75mg, 0.5mg, 0.375mg, 0.25mg, 0.125mg, 0.0625mg.

Also is the GABA as in Gabapentin or Pregaba all in the same?
GABA (gamma-Aminobutyric acid) is our chief inhibitory (calming) neurotransmitter (it also has other functions). Naturally the brain makes GABA itself, and GABA taken as a supplement should not be able to pass through the blood brain barrier in significant amounts. However, GABA supplementation has been shown to have calming effects in studies but the mechanisms by which it does this are unclear (and it's subtle, it's not like taking a benzo). There are GABA receptors outside the brain so it should at least be accessible for them. Gabapentin and pregabalin were designed with the idea that they would be GABA analogues, drugs that acted as though they were GABA, yet were able to cross the blood brain barrier, but in reality they don't actually bind to GABA receptors like GABA. We don't fully understand how they work but a big part of it is likely by binding to voltage-gated calcium channels - I can try to explain more or direct you to relevant threads or studies if you want.

You really gotta check the amount of kavalactones in your kava products. They can vary greatly, and usually the health food items are shit.

From the description it sounds like possibly the Herb Pharm kava extract, which is made from the whole root and is supposedly good quality, but I've never tried an extract myself, only whole root, powdered root or capsules. I've never actually had a problem finding decent kava at health food stores myself. And I've had excellent quality root before so I do know what to compare it to. I think because potency can vary, and the effects on different people can vary, plus it can synergize with certain drugs, the best idea would be to start with a low dose. Also if Tryingtokickit is just wanting to take it to help with PAWS/anxiety/insomnia/quitting benzos/etc, then it's best to just take the minimum needed IMO.
 
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^ Thank you so much I wish I knew half of what you know!

I would love to know a little more about the GABA. I just want to take the one with the least withdrawal. What would be the healthiest??? Pregabalin, Gabapentin or just GABA?

My Kava is Herb Pharm extract Dry Herb/Menstruum ratio: 1 : 1;) <3
 
TRYINGTOKICKIT said:
I just want to take the one with the least withdrawal. What would be the healthiest??? Pregabalin, Gabapentin or just GABA?
Definitely the GABA, but it's also not anywhere near as effective as gabapentin or pregabalin. I'll try to explain more about GABA when I have more time.
 
I don't know how to say this but I relapsed I guess. I was sick of feeling the pain in my legs so I used kratom for a few days again and when I go without the kratom I feel withdrawal? I have been taking 2 mg loperamide four times a day. I am stuck at this level. I can dose real low on each to maintain/no withdrawal. I just moved and started a new job. I am talking so much unnecessary pills because I dont know what is helping me so I take one of each gaba, lysine, kava, lopermide and or kratom. I have also been drinking a beer about three times a day. I feel like I am going in reverse. I know I need to study up but I just dont have the time. Is there a certain point where I am just dragging out this withdrawal and should jump. Last time it seemed I could taper to nothing with no problems. Now I am going backwards?
 
Don't give up hope, it's a process, with ups and downs. <3

Is there a certain point where I am just dragging out this withdrawal and should jump
Yes, I think so. Once you get down to a really low dose of opioids I think it's like ripping off a bandaid - tapering more slowly or staying on low doses for longer just prolongs the suffering. I would try to quickly taper off the kratom and loperamide. I don't think your opioid receptors or endorphins can fully begin to recover while you continue to take them. There is also a big psychological barrier to getting off opioids completely. It's scary to not take any opioids at all when you are so used to taking them for so long. Even if it's subconscious.

Do you mean that if you don't take the kratom now you do get withdrawal symptoms, or are you asking IF you will get withdrawal symptoms if you stop the kratom now? How much kratom have you been taking?

Are you still taking benzos, pregabalin or gabapentin?

Also have you checked out our Recovery Forums?

BTW you can PM me any time since you're a Bluelighter now.
 
Thanks much...day..omg..22 ..and still Ill..but yeah that very set in a few days ago ..ugh yuck:( not sure how it alleviate s otheriwithdrawal symptoms.. if that's what meant by feeling better...
 
Quick Question(if you're still 'round these parts)... As you stayed, you decreases, let body stabalize at 4, etc. Did you effectively get to 0 and when(if) you did, was it nothing toooo torturous? I have done this the same way- been a long road. Currently, at 7.5mg. Reducing 1mg. Per week- allowing body to adjust for another week when I felt a hard hit (only when it's felt like... heading towards a major wd, where I'd be tempted, in throws of frustration&defeat, that I would just jump from there- to "get it over with". (but I'd really like to go as LOW as I can before I step off... As I've planned for so long now... Nearing end) but I would like to avoid the intensely debilitating, fully sick ickies&all that jazz. So... the taper...down to the much desired 0000! How did that go?
(Old thread/post I know... Just a shot in the dark)... ;) Emme
 
Sorry, I forgot to include whom my inquires were to- being swimmingdancer&crzydiamond- in ref. To methadone taper- I still suck at posting, remembering to add quotes, etc. ;) I also expect this will prob. go unnoticed due to it being old thread.
 
I have been tapering each week-yesterday I decided to give this Immodium a whirl. I took 8mg. of it and for the 1st time in a few weeks, my legs aren't cramped(maybe just a fraction of what the cramps have been),but they don't feel like aged trees, cracking from the inside out. I did not take 1/2 tab. of clonidine when I went to bed & I did not wake up at 4am...feeling edgy, sweaty cold..the whole gnawing situation was by FAR less...maybe 80% improved. I woke at 7:30. It's now 8:30 & have not even yet taken my 7mg . dose (which I dropped by 1mg. 3days ago) and that is usually the 1st thing I do..I try to make myself wait as long as I can to take my dose, but it's a rough wait. Today, my body is not... Asking for it yet. All it can say, is this has not been par the course over this lower dose decreasing/tapering. I will def. use this as needed.
 
Ok so i am new to this site and what not i dont really know how it works but i have read almost everyrhing on detoxing with lope bit im still verry skeptical because if it dosint work my withdrawls are going to be complete hell...with that being said i know it works diffent for everyone etc but has anyone felt like me on this topic and has tried it and it works??....also what is the best way to dose so you feel no wd symptoms..thanks..
 
Are you W/d's gonna be from methadone? It WILL help, esp at higher doses, but something has come out about it not being good for your heart or whatever at high doses, but whatever, it's not like being hooked on large doses immodium is fun so it's just temportay for most folks. I know when I was taking anywhere from 60mg(bad day) to 180mg of oxy (abouant 120mg being my feel normal dose with mild buzz) immodium got rid of w/d's completly. I was taking large doses though, like 40 to 72 pills(this was when everything was dry and nothing was around and I was desperate.) I will say it RAISED my tolerance and BLOCKED other opiates., if I got something the next day I would not be able to feel it for a day or two until the lope got out of my system,wasted so many pills. Not that euphoric, just made me drowsy, and I was able to poop daily or every other day. I plan to use this and kratom when I get off of Subs. Seems like it will def. work if you get yourself down to a low enough dose of done'. It did get the nickname OTC Methadone from some guy that wrote an article about it in the 90's.
 
So SWIM has been using/taking opiates for about 10 years. In the last year SWIMs average daily consumption is about 100mg norco or oxy (either or), plus 120 mg morphine. So has a built up tolerance and if stop taking opiates goes into a terrible withdrawal.

SWIM lately saw a few articles and read A LOT of threads regarding use of loperamide (anti diarrhea meds OTC) for controlling WD and in higher dosing achieving pain control and high. Reason for the extremely high dosing is to have the lopeeramide cross the BBB as it is an opiod agonist.

The first try at it was taking 30 of the 2mg pills a week or two ago. This mildly seemed to help the sweats/chills and took the edge off of SWIMs WD but was nothing to write home about. The next attempt was around 70 of the 2 mg pills, where the same results were achieved.

Earlier this evening around 6pm SWIM was in terrible withdrawal and read the that taking a PPI like protonix or prilosec helps the loperamide cross over the BBB. So in a final attempt at pain relief and WD relief SWIM took 100 of the 2 mg loperamide and a 20mg pill of protonix (an Rx proton pump inhibitor). An hour later SWIM took 50 more 2mg loperamide and another 20mg protonix.

It took about an hour after the final consumption, but SWIM actually became completely WD free, and excellent pain relief with a rather intense and unexpected high. The last dosing was at no later than 7pm, and SWIM is still feeling the effects of a strong opiate type high to the point that they cannot sleep still at 4am.

This is not something SWIM would do on a regular basis, but in a pinch it definitely works.. (And anyone who thinks its a placebo affect SWIM promises it most definitely is not , as they are an experienced opiod user/addict and was in terrible WD earlier today)
 
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