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U.S. - FDA Overlooked Red Flags In Testing of New Depression Drug Esketamine

S.J.B.

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FDA Overlooked Red Flags In Testing of New Depression Drug Esketamine
Emmarie Huetteman
Daily Beast
June 10th, 2019
Ketamine is a darling of combat medics and clubgoers, an anesthetic that can quiet your pain without suppressing breathing and a hallucinogenic that can get you high with little risk of a fatal overdose.

For some patients, it also has dwelled in the shadows of conventional medicine as a depression treatment—prescribed by their doctors, but not approved for that purpose by the federal agency responsible for determining which treatments are “safe and effective.”

That effectively changed in March, when the Food and Drug Administration approved a ketamine cousin called esketamine, taken as a nasal spray, for patients with intractable depression. With that, the esketamine nasal spray, under the brand name Spravato, was introduced as a miracle drug— announced in press releases, celebrated on the evening news and embraced by major health care providers like the Department of Veterans Affairs.

The problem, critics say, is that the drug’s manufacturer, Janssen, provided the FDA at best modest evidence it worked and then only in limited trials. It presented no information about the safety of Spravato for long-term use beyond 60 weeks. And three patients who received the drug died by suicide during clinical trials, compared with none in the control group, raising red flags Janssen and the FDA dismissed.

The FDA, under political pressure to rapidly greenlight drugs that treat life-threatening conditions, approved it anyway. And, though Spravato’s appearance on the market was greeted with public applause, some deep misgivings were expressed at its day-long review meeting and in the agency’s own briefing materials, according to public recordings, documents and interviews with participants, KHN found.
Read the full story here.
 
Looks like, on the whole, it isn't quite the miracle depression drug it was being touted as.
 
Looks like, on the whole, it isn't quite the miracle depression drug it was being touted as.
Duh, I've been saying this for a while. After-glow window is short for me.

SOME people DO report amazing longer-lasting alleviation of side effects.

It would be good if we relaxed some of the red flags in looking for novel PTSD treatments. This is a serious disorder and we ought to find better solutions for everyone.
 
Traditional anti depresant's aren't miracle drugs either. More tools in the box is better
 
Never tried ketamine but I always had pretty good lasting results with psilocybin, plus there definitely aren't any physical side effects from it.

We are a long way from understanding the brain. Until we better understand what the hell we are poking at with these drugs treatments are going to be shoddy at best.
 
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I want a ketamine filled PCA box. Not for any particular reason, just for giggles.

[rapidly hammering "dispense" button]
 
I notice the afterglow of ketamine only lasts for about a week and then all symptoms return. DMT works much better at wiping out depression and keeping it gone IMO. Same with related substances like psilocybin/4-AcO-DMT.

GC
 
More tools in the box is better
THIS TIMES A MILLION. Everything should be on the table and they should just ask you what works. :|

If you don't know get to the right specialist, and they'll walk you through it. Do independent research before, during, after.

FDA is a joke.
 
DMT works much better at wiping out depression and keeping it gone IMO. Same with related substances like psilocybin/4-AcO-DMT.
Well..... I find psilocin to be like more mentally healthy than injecting DMT. Yes, I am a freak of nature and the latter is likely to create the sensation of dying, you are likely to perceive the effects as completely leaving the world, likely communicating with "extraterrestrial beings" (read: extremely intricate and flawless hallucinations) and you will return thankful you are back to the world you so much hate but pretend to understand. Mushrooms help my mental health. DMT (injected or similar high dose insta-vaporized instead of smoking gradually) feels like fucking dying and coming back to life, except you're conscious for it. And you will feel the fear, the adrenaline rush, all the neurotransmitters flowing. It's quite out of this world and quite frankly I think the average person would never want to try it - at least in the "+++ to ++++" range. Just food for thought. High-dose mushroom trips can be especially challenging mentally as well but most people are not freaks of nature (read: ME) and don't go over 3.5g for your typical potency strain.

It's addictive
lol *DEFINITELY NOT* for me, it is unpleasant, unrealistically happy feeling and completely nauseating and disorienting. This was s-ketamine, the one in "the trials". I had more fun shooting racemic shit honestly I don't know what's wrong with me to be so "treatment resistant" to all my shit.

I know people find it addictive but after one line of the shit I passed on it forever.

what they are saying that ketamine basically has no long term positive effect that can be reproduced.
No I believe they're saying a single dose/infusion won't produce a miraculous return to normality in regards to ones mental health.

For one person I have talked to who respond well to ketamine infusions/therapy, they typically go about once a week (despite the huge financial burden) if they can. They do not have a "month long afterglow". They report 3-5, maybe a whole week of afterglow (and remember I only get like 1 day of afterglow from it, yay me right). I'm very happy for the people it works for.

I'm just very skeptical of its efficacy and wisdom of its selection in general.
 
I found MXE really capable of treating emotional distress/depression for about a week. I'd use once or twice weekly and I'd be much happier daily, and MXE seems less prone to kidney/bladder damage (I never had any bad side-effects). MXE was akin to the flesh of the universe to me.
 
Obviously they're going to be highly critical and potentially biased against approving esketamine.
The article claims the opposite: that it was approved despite relatively weak evidence for efficacy.
 
I wonder how much headway the people who are looking at butorphanol. O-desmethyltramadol,, oxymorphone, morphine &c for intractable depression have been making during these years (after all, morphine especially was used as an antidepressant all the way up to the invention of tricyclic antidepressants in the 1950s) that the rehab gangsters and ignorant people have been carping about the fake opioid cri$i$ . . . probably not much, so if that is the case, now they are victimising depressed people and those with PTSD in addition to the chronic pan folks, the addicts and the chronic pain folks who have to go to the street who are getting poisoned, and all the others . . . the whole PTSD situation in War on Terrorism Coalition countries is a scandal and it looks like depression is widespread enough in the US to probably be taking a noticeable bite out of GDP and imperiling economic competitiveness and various other things above and beyond being a horrendous humanitarian problem
 
I've received ketamine infusions given by an anesthesiologist for treatment-resistant depression. It was far more effective than anything else I tried, which was over a dozen different antidepressant drugs in multiple categories. Of course, the remission only lasts about a week, it costs $650 per infusion and is not covered by insurance so not affordable for me or for most. I'm also not really comfortable with potential for bladder issues, though an infusion is typically under 100mg over the course of an hour.

I was hopeful for any ACH depression treatment and waited years, but esketamine was a lazy, greedy, and poor choice. No initial development costs as already used in human medicine internationally, yet with all of the side effect profile of racemic ketamine, except at a cost of $600-$900 per dose when ketamine costs less than $1 per dose. And they chose the wrong isomer. R-ketamine is not as fun but seems to be more effective for depression and less conducive to psychosis.

On top of this, intranasal ROA was already known to be SIGNIFICANTLY less effective than IV. The only potential benefit would have been wider availability and broader convenience to patients who could potentially use this at home. Yet all of the same limitations exist: you must have somebody drive you to a clinic and wait around for 2 hours every week for something that costs at least as much as the ketamine therapy already available and less than half the efficiency. It is extremely unlikely that those with severe treatment resistant depression will see 1-2 weeks of relief from a single administration of an intranasal S-ketamine spray.

While I was prepared for disappointment, this managed to duck my already low expectations. It's insulting on multiple levels and I see almost no justification for this product to exist except to wring desperate and sick people of more money than their depression already does.
 
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