Opioids Trying to determine where I am on the withdrawal timeline

[Mr.M.301]

Hi,

Little background story/information, I was a daily heroin user for about 6 months, got on methadone (I was well aware of the fact that it would destroy my tolerance and make coming off opiates much more difficult, but it was the best of a bunch of poor options at the time). I was on methadone for about 2 years, starting at 40 mgs/day, then jumping up to 50 mgs/day for most of the duration. I should note that once I got a weeks worth of take-homes, I started taking multiple doses at once (usually 200-250 mgs at a time), then downing bottles of loperamide (usually 72 pills / 144 mgs) on the weekends to stave off withdrawal.

I saw the writing on the wall, and combined with financial issues I decided to attempt to wean myself off of methadone about 3 months ago. I saved up 2 weeks of take-homes (around 500-600 mgs) and planned to taper myself down to 1 mg/day (cause why pay the clinic the same amount for 1 mg as 50 mgs, right?). Anyway, predictably that didn't quite go as planned, but I did manage to taper down over a month to around 10 mgs a day, although the last week I jumped up to around 20 mgs a day before I ran out.

At that point I got a prescription for clonidine and gapabentin. The clonidine was very effective in eliminating all w/d symptoms for me except for the worst RLS (in my case restless 'limbs' syndrome, as it affected not only my legs but my arms and my back all the way up and down my spine) that I've ever experienced, causing me to not be able to sleep. The gabapentin was completely ineffective at alleviating the RLS, even at huge doses. So I went out and got some alprazolam (xanax) to help me sleep. As anyone who has experience with xanax or benzos knows, one is prone to doing moronic things while under their influence, and I am no exception.

While on xanax, I relapsed on heroin for about a week straight. The last shot of heroin I had was July 8th or 9th. I had about 20 mgs of loperamide during the first day without heroin, and around 40-50 mgs on the second day. The next day I was able to obtain 8 mgs of buprenorphine (in the form of suboxone sublingual film), planning to do a quick taper as described by many here and elsewhere. All values are approximate as I had to cut up the film into tiny pieces and this is inherently inaccurate; I also varied the ROA from sublingual to nasal and rectal at times, partially due to efficiency and partially due to ease of dosing. Here was my quick taper schedule to the best of my knowledge:

Day 1: (July 11th) 500 mcgs (sublingual)
Day 2: (July 12th) 250 mcgs (sublingual)
Day 3: (July 13th) 250 mcgs (sublingual)
Day 4: (July 14th) 200 mcgs (nasal)
Day 5: (July 15th) 150 mcgs (rectal)
---(nothing on days 6-7)---
Day 8: (July 18th) 100 mcgs (rectal)

I haven't had any opioids since Saturday, July 18th (5 days ago). I've been experiencing mild withdrawal symptoms since then (constantly running nose, teary eyes, sneezing, occasionally sore legs, and that weird 'gurgling' where little bubbles seem to come up my throat). They've been uncomfortable but not unbearable, but have remained relatively constant for the past week or so (they would dissipate for a couple hours after dosing bupe but fairly quickly return). The issue is, I can't really tell if the effects are getting better or worse, and just the fact of not knowing how much longer (or potentially how much worse) this will last/get is causing me anxiety and stress just in and of itself.

I know there are too many variables involved to give a definitive answer, but anecdotes and opinions are better than no data at all. How much longer do you think the withdrawal symptoms will get, and do you think they will get worse before they get better?

Thanks for reading.

 

[Newin419]

Well I'm in the opinion category.. So I have used methadone before to quit opiates, but I only used them for five days and a method of a quick taper.. And then the only way I knew where I was with the addiction was to quit everything.. This resulted in a couple days of WDs, however, I was noticeably better after day seven. Then I just had to deal with the mental addiction of my brain telling me to score some dope. So I guess I'm suggesting to quit everything to get an idea of where you are. Some Xanax and excedrine and other over the counter aids should help finish this off.. But the mental addiction will be around for another two weeks.. Don't listen to it, stay away and you'll be in the clear before you know it.

 

[speedballs_over]

Opinion again, but I'd expect a possibility of a few days of worsening symptoms as the last of the bupe leaves your body, but perhaps not, you may already be clear of all the bupe.

You'll possibly feel protracted, but mild, w/ds for a month or so. A six month run with dope isn't that bad, best you try to forget the idea of ever using any opioid to get high on ever again, sorry. The more you remind yourself you're finished and this is your last go around with w/ds the better the mental aspect will become, ime.

Don't fall into a benzo dependency! I know you've probably read that a thousand times, but I feel I have to add that.

Really, it sounds like you're about where you should be, just manage the symptoms with things like clonidine and in time your body will heal, and your mind along with it. Exercise is often helpful in restoring endorphin production. It's not a magic bullet, but it's something to consider if your not active daily, try to become so. Just a couple mile walk or some swimming - every day or the like should do.

Hang in there, it may be a bumpy ride as you've noted, it comes in waves. That'll start to slow down in the next few days. If not repost and we'll give opinions again.

 

[pbuilder]

Hi,

Little background story/information, I was a daily heroin user for about 6 months, got on methadone (I was well aware of the fact that it would destroy my tolerance and make coming off opiates much more difficult, but it was the best of a bunch of poor options at the time). I was on methadone for about 2 years, starting at 40 mgs/day, then jumping up to 50 mgs/day for most of the duration. I should note that once I got a weeks worth of take-homes, I started taking multiple doses at once (usually 200-250 mgs at a time), then downing bottles of loperamide (usually 72 pills / 144 mgs) on the weekends to stave off withdrawal.

I saw the writing on the wall, and combined with financial issues I decided to attempt to wean myself off of methadone about 3 months ago. I saved up 2 weeks of take-homes (around 500-600 mgs) and planned to taper myself down to 1 mg/day (cause why pay the clinic the same amount for 1 mg as 50 mgs, right?). Anyway, predictably that didn't quite go as planned, but I did manage to taper down over a month to around 10 mgs a day, although the last week I jumped up to around 20 mgs a day before I ran out.

At that point I got a prescription for clonidine and gapabentin. The clonidine was very effective in eliminating all w/d symptoms for me except for the worst RLS (in my case restless 'limbs' syndrome, as it affected not only my legs but my arms and my back all the way up and down my spine) that I've ever experienced, causing me to not be able to sleep. The gabapentin was completely ineffective at alleviating the RLS, even at huge doses. So I went out and got some alprazolam (xanax) to help me sleep. As anyone who has experience with xanax or benzos knows, one is prone to doing moronic things while under their influence, and I am no exception.

While on xanax, I relapsed on heroin for about a week straight. The last shot of heroin I had was July 8th or 9th. I had about 20 mgs of loperamide during the first day without heroin, and around 40-50 mgs on the second day. The next day I was able to obtain 8 mgs of buprenorphine (in the form of suboxone sublingual film), planning to do a quick taper as described by many here and elsewhere. All values are approximate as I had to cut up the film into tiny pieces and this is inherently inaccurate; I also varied the ROA from sublingual to nasal and rectal at times, partially due to efficiency and partially due to ease of dosing. Here was my quick taper schedule to the best of my knowledge:

Day 1: (July 11th) 500 mcgs (sublingual)
Day 2: (July 12th) 250 mcgs (sublingual)
Day 3: (July 13th) 250 mcgs (sublingual)
Day 4: (July 14th) 200 mcgs (nasal)
Day 5: (July 15th) 150 mcgs (rectal)
---(nothing on days 6-7)---
Day 8: (July 18th) 100 mcgs (rectal)

I haven't had any opioids since Saturday, July 18th (5 days ago). I've been experiencing mild withdrawal symptoms since then (constantly running nose, teary eyes, sneezing, occasionally sore legs, and that weird 'gurgling' where little bubbles seem to come up my throat). They've been uncomfortable but not unbearable, but have remained relatively constant for the past week or so (they would dissipate for a couple hours after dosing bupe but fairly quickly return). The issue is, I can't really tell if the effects are getting better or worse, and just the fact of not knowing how much longer (or potentially how much worse) this will last/get is causing me anxiety and stress just in and of itself.

I know there are too many variables involved to give a definitive answer, but anecdotes and opinions are better than no data at all. How much longer do you think the withdrawal symptoms will get, and do you think they will get worse before they get better?

Thanks for reading.

Don't use loperamide in high doses, especially with methadone! Methadone already as been determined to potentially be cardiotoxic and to increase your qt interval to potentially a long qt, which means you are at risk of heart arrhythmia's, specifically the deadly arrhythmia torsades de pointes.

Now we are realizing loperamide does the same thing but is very very cardiotoxic and combining the two puts you at very high risk of long qt in your heart and potential sudden cardiac death from very deadly heart arrhythmia's, specifically torsades de pointes, among other heart conduction malfunctions.

You can google methadone and cardiac arrest for more info on that, your doctor should be keeping an eye on your qtc interval length when on methadone.

Here are a bunch of medical journals documenting serious heart issues and deaths related to high dose loperamide.
https://madmargaret.wordpress.com/2...learinghouse-password-protected-see-comments/

Be careful man, and stay safe.

Keep an eye on if you ever feel light headed, easily out of breath, severe muscle weakness and fatigue, unusually low heart rate especially at rest, or waking up gasping for air during the night. Especially if you faint, that's a very bad sign and basically means your heart was in a torsade de pointes arrhythmia and you would be lucky to wake up.

Stay safe.

 

[Mr.M.301]

Thanks for your replies so far.

Sorry I didn't make it more clear, but I am off of everything now. The only things I am using are acetaminophen and ibuprofen for leg pains (and perhaps a mostly placebo (or not? http://time.com/3825042/tylenol-emotion-acetaminophen/ "Tylenol Dulls Your Emotional Pain, Too") mood boost from the acetaminophen). Also 25 mg of seroquel and sometimes 25-50 mgs of doxylamine for sleep. I ran out of the clonidine and the doctor (who is also the methadone clinic doctor) is apparently refusing to refill my script (unless I cough up a bunch of money out of pocket for another 5 minute visit, but I digress), but I don't think I strictly need it at this point, it would just be nice. I ran out of the xanax several weeks ago (funny how fast that shit disappears, eh? lol).

I dunno if the bupe is out of my system yet; I've read the half life is anywhere between 24 and 72 hours (36 being the mostly commonly cited value), and I took less than 2 mgs in grand total over about a week, week and a half, so I can't imagine there's much left, but I just don't know.