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Social Justice Transgender and gender identity discussion

SKL

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Disagree. Example: medications can affect members of different races differently. What do you do when someone of mixed race shows up, which is common, unlike intersex individuals. What to do then?
This is true but leads to a bit of a tangent. In fairness I had said I was making an imperfect analogy. There are important differences, genetic differences, that can effect patient care. I think this actually strengthens my original analogy now that I think about it: an albino Black person still needs to have an adjustment made when calculating GFR. There is some analogy here to an androgen-insensitive person with external female anatomy still has (internal) testicles which are at elevated risk for cancer.
One tries. Assumption of objectivity in patient care is a tad arrogant. And possibly leads one down the road of good intentions.
It is good to get reminded of this from time to time.
Intersex individuals are placed into a world where gender expectations are binary for babies and most children. How they are raised and how well that matches their own perception of sex and, particularly, gender is relevant to any discussion where gender is an issue.
Intersex questions are very interesting. You are right, for example, it is of enormous consequence that the androgen-insensitive person I mentioned before receives female socialization from birth. What I'm trying to say, and I don't really want to go down this road again as I've written a lot of words about it, is that analogies between intersex persons and trans-identified persons are questionable (and as I've mentioned repeatedly seem to me to be offensive to the intersex.) There is simply not a biological analogy to make here and a phenomenological analogy is tenuous at best. The whole discussion between myself and @JessFR around intersex issues was around the question of binary male/female sex which I maintain is absolute even accounting for intersex cases as aberrations.
trans softboi
You admit you have little contact with this community in your work, and it might behoove you to be careful about using terminology that is freely used by members of the community, but is not perhaps as appropriate for someone outside the community to use.
I realize that these are sensitive issues and I don't intend any mockery here. Please note, and I should probably do a better job of making this clear in what I'm writing, that not everything I am saying here comes from clinical experience. I got into this a little bit at the very bottom of my last post: part of the base of knowledge I have here comes from doing a lot of research on this subject including spending time in relevant online communities, both gender-critical ones and trans-positive ones, observing from a necessarily etic standpoint. I should mention I make no pretense of this part of my "research" being scientific (unlike when I cite, well, actual research.) Perhaps I should make this more clear as well.

However, I'm not sure how I had ought to refer to this sort of thing other than with "endonyms?" I suppose I could have omitted the phrase entirely having already mentioned "TiFs identifying as feminine man" but I feel that using the term adds something important: connecting abstract and fairly clunky wording to the real world and actual people.
 
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cduggles

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@SKL For some reason I can’t quote you.

It’s cool that you have learned about the trans community from its members in an environment where they interact casually. I appreciate the added color that language from such an environment brings, but please use care with it. Some words are not really for use by an out group member in some settings.
 

birdup.snaildown

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cduggles said:
please use care

I think he did an extraordinary job. Certainly way better than I'm capable of... It's kind of impossible not to offend people these days.

I'm happy to admit that (personally) I don't understand the trans movement. I think people are a bit confused about gender these days. I've brought this up with some trans people I know and they were surprisingly accommodating. There were no hurt feelings.

I will always call people by their preferred pronouns assuming they aren't super confusing. It doesn't cost me anything to say he or she. I think zhe is a bit much, but that's somewhat of a rarity in the trans world. Most people who transition are happy with "normal" pronouns.

I don't think a trans woman is a woman. If you have XY chromosomes, you are a man. (Excluding intersex situations or whatever. You know what I mean.) That's my opinion. I'm not going to yell it from the rooftops. But, I also don't feel guilty for having that opinion.

I've met a lot of lovely, intelligent trans people. I read something a while back that indicated that gay/lesbian people tend to have higher IQs than straight people. Maybe it's not true, but (from my experience) it probably is. I think the same is true for trans people. I've had fascinating conversations with trans men and women. They are light years ahead of me in terms of deconstructing gender... so maybe I don't understand because I'm ignorant.

I've tried to understand. I just don't get it.
 

cduggles

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And I definitely wouldn’t hold @SKL to such a high standard if he wasn’t so conversant in the vernacular of the community.
But I would mention it to anyone who used a word that it might not be as appropriate for a non trans individual to use.
 
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birdup.snaildown

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w01fg4ng said:
Is it more shocking that German has three genders for nouns or that English inherently has none?

I'm often hesitant (with you) to respond sincerely, because you have this deadpan comedic style and sometimes it goes over my head... but I'm going to assume this is one of those rare moments that you're being serious. In which case, I'm not sure what the actual point of gendering a table or a boat is? I studied French in high school (and my ex-wife's first language was French) but I could never get over how bizarre it is to apply gender to inanimate objects.

I guess I think of dildos (and other phallic objects) as male... but a coffee table is just a coffee table.
 

birdup.snaildown

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cduggles said:
I respect the community and its culture

I respect people, but I'm not sure if that means they can dictate my language. I would never say the n-word, though. I honestly didn't realize until today that there were terms cis people aren't allowed to say. What words are we talking about here?
 

w01fg4ng

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I'm often hesitant (with you) to respond sincerely, because you have this deadpan comedic style and sometimes it goes over my head... but I'm going to assume this is one of those rare moments that you're being serious. In which case, I'm not sure what the actual point of gendering a table or a boat is? I studied French in high school (and my ex-wife's first language was French) but I could never get over how bizarre it is to apply gender to inanimate objects.

I guess I think of dildos (and other phallic objects) as male... but a coffee table is just a coffee table.
Don't be scared to show your true self to anyone.
 

w01fg4ng

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It always confused me as a kid why my bike, as male, had a the bar going horizontal while the girls had more room in what seemed like the crotch area of the bike.

The day I wore a dress everything made sense.
 
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