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Social Justice Transgender and gender identity discussion

w01fg4ng

Moderator: CD
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What i mean by group identification was that someone thinking you should have X opinions because of your color of skin or sexuality, you are racist because you are X color of skin, you should be ashamed of your skin color because of your ancestors. I believe in individualism and personal responsibility.
I really don't know anyone who is ashamed of their skin color. Sure, there might be extremists but I've never met them.

People are too quick to move to the shame argument because we naturally feel it and naturally are opposed to that feeling.

What I'm trying to tell you is that you can address systematic oppression without rejecting your own skin color. It's actually not your fault for the systematic racism you may or may not have but you do have the ability to address it within yourself and change it.

I don't mean to make this too off topic but it's important to address these issues even within the LGBT+ community
 

DeadManWalkin'

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I really don't know anyone who is ashamed of their skin color. Sure, there might be extremists but I've never met them.

People are too quick to move to the shame argument because we naturally feel it and naturally are opposed to that feeling.

What I'm trying to tell you is that you can address systematic oppression without rejecting your own skin color. It's actually not your fault for the systematic racism you may or may not have but you do have the ability to address it within yourself and change it.

I don't mean to make this too off topic but it's important to address these issues even within the LGBT+ community
Those were examples, don't take them too seriously. Okay - but let me answer.
It's kinda weird that you took the conversation there, since this has nothing to do this. I would think you support same kind of individualism too? Boys can have long hair and not be transgender? Girls can be tomboys and not be injected with testosterone? Blacks can be conservative? You can be white and not hate blacks?
I have never rejected my own skin color. Some people are ashamed. Some people are proud. Some people are proud of achievements of the white race, which is retarded since white has many sub-races inside it and i wouldn't put them in same group. Being proud of achievements of people with same skin color is insecure, but so is being ashamed of horrors done by people with same skin color.
Oh yeah, tell me more about the systemic racism in Finland. Where does this systemic oppression take place?
Even in the US, i have spent my fair time looking at US statistics and i can really see no systemic oppression. When you claim that your problems are caused by someone else you give up the power to solve them. Send me stuff i can read and i will tell you my opinions on them. I'm ready to change my mind.
 

Atelier3

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So you would agree that group identity can cause unhealthy assumptions about individuals and things like the Boy Scouts of America should include girls? Do you have any gender identity groups you were apart of or did you just not really think much about it as a kid or an adult?
I played cricket and rugby in all boys programs and went to an all boys boarding school where we were taught to respect women as equal but different. The fundamentals of that education lead me to view transgender people the same way - equal but different (to either men or women).

I believe in equality of opoortunity for all people regardless of sex or gender but i believe there are biological differences in sex that influence gender. Sex binary but gender an expression or spectrum which is significantly constructed through individual choice.

As partially an individual choice it should be partially constrained by social norms in the pursuit of the best social whole for the majority of people.
 

w01fg4ng

Moderator: CD
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I know Wiki isn't the best source but I'm not looking for hard evidence of the progressiveness of Finland. I mean, 1972? You guys got us beat by a long shot.

In 1972 the Girl Guide Association and the Boy Scout Association merged and formed Suomen Partiolaiset. The association has about 75,000 members.


So what were your experiences like in the Suomen Partiolaiset?
 

DeadManWalkin'

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I know Wiki isn't the best source but I'm not looking for hard evidence of the progressiveness of Finland. I mean, 1972? You guys got us beat by a long shot.

In 1972 the Girl Guide Association and the Boy Scout Association merged and formed Suomen Partiolaiset. The association has about 75,000 members.


So what were your experiences like in the Suomen Partiolaiset?
I didn't belong to it. There should be zones for boys only and if there's group made for boys it should be kept like it. Girls are just as capable of creating good groups for themselves, right? They don't need boys to do that :) Why it's always girls infiltrating boy groups? Why always some "progressive" decides that "Hey, look at this! They have something beautiful going on! Let's ruin it!"?
Why can't they look at it with respect, tell them that they respect their rules and form their own group?
Because of the good ol' inferiority complex.
 

w01fg4ng

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The fundamentals of that education lead me to view transgender people the same way - equal but different (to either men or women).
Did they make you where the same outfit everyday in boarding school? Any individuality or room for expression? Where was there wiggle room, if any? Could you get away with un-tucking your shirt on a Friday?

Have you seen Dead Poets Society?
 

Atelier3

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Did they make you where the same outfit everyday in boarding school? Any individuality or room for expression? Where was there wiggle room, if any? Could you get away with un-tucking your shirt on a Friday?

Have you seen Dead Poets Society?
We were encouraged to show our uniqueness in achievement and excellence in both academic and co-curricular activities but a certain conformity in values was expected - for example compassion, charity and tolerance.

We were too proud of our school to dis it by not wearing the uniform correctly - even after we got baked or dropped acid on a Friday afternoon. It was something meaningful and valuable to be a part of.
 

w01fg4ng

Moderator: CD
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In your head
We were encouraged to show our uniqueness in achievement and excellence in both academic and co-curricular activities but a certain conformity in values was expected - for example compassion, charity and tolerance.

We were too proud of our school to dis it by not wearing the uniform correctly - even after we got baked or dropped acid on a Friday afternoon. It was something meaningful and valuable to be a part of.
Would standing on your desk be considered dissing your school?
 

PriestTheyCalledHim

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There's also now lots of revisionist history about the Stonewall riots in NYC and the ludicrous lies, that they were started by two 'transgender women of colour' who in reality were never at the riot, and they were drag queens and not transgender or transsexuals at all.

The Stonewall riots were not that major of an event for LGB people except for the upper class and middle class European-American LGB people in NYC in a gay/LGB ghetto or small section of NYC, but the majority of European-American LGB people in and around NYC, and North America as a whole were discreet and not super out. It was like this up until the early 2010s.

LGB/gay pride did not happen until a year or two after 1969, and gay and bisexual men and women who were European-Americans or white started pride or the Christopher Street events, but there were events before these. Transgender people were not involved, and most 'people of colour' were deep in the closet in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, and even today it is like this amongst non-European people both in North America and especially outside of the Western world.

 

PriestTheyCalledHim

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If a trans woman goes in for a cervical exam or a pregnancy test and the doctor has to pretend that is accurate then we've crossed the line.

Crowder showed an example of this when he dressed as a trans and went to an abortion clinic. His pregnancy test came back positive and the employee there had to pretend he was a biological female instead of informing him that if a biological male tests positive for a birth control test then it could point to some type of serious cancer.
Wait, how was he showing up as being pregnant when he is a man or biologically male? Do you have a link to this video?
 

JGrimez

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Wait, how was he showing up as being pregnant when he is a man or biologically male? Do you have a link to this video?
The worrying thing about that is if a male tests positive to a pregnancy test then that is a sign of cancer within the male. However the staff failed to inform him of this as they were going along with his delusion (in this case, an act)

 

DeadManWalkin'

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Funny how those people care more about their reputation than someones life.
Well, when you live in fear of getting canceled, losing your job, then not having money and maybe not even being able to pay rent, it doesn't surprise me that people are acting all crazy.
Don't give children what they want, just because they will throw a tantrum if they don't get it. This lesson should always be kept in mind with rioters, cancel culture and others.
 

Gormur

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They did spanking with a paddle at my non-Catholic Christian school, but only the principal could administer it in their office. I got hit with it once. I said fuck and the teacher heard it outside class. I was actually talking to a friend during recess and we were outside
 
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