Detox Tianeptine/lyrica withdrawal HELP

[JS210041]

So Ive got a long story so ill just post where im at now.


Basically Im at the point of barely returning on my feet. Im a freaking addict to the core. Last year i fell back into like 300mg oxy codone a day. I withdrew from that no problem. And then i heard about this drug called tianeptine thats good for repairing an addicts mind and depression. I thought my god this is it. Bullshit. 12.5mg turned into needing 100mg, to 200mg to 400mg, to 1 gram a day to 5 to finally 10 fucking grams a day. Yes this is obsurd. So finally in december i decided fuck this shit i need to get off. So i told my parents and we went to the doctor. Doctors know nothing about this drug. like at all. So they sent me to the hospital, which they took my vitals and sent me home. The withdrawals from this drug are fucking INSANE. I cant compare it to benzos or heroin tho i have heard at this level its close. This drug... its not about the shitting and throwing up or the physical things.. it destroys you mentally....
anyways i relapsed and had multiple boughts of trying to get off and failing miserably. Ive made my way down to what i think is 1 gram a day. and im on the weaker version of the drug sulfate. Last week i got 60 lyrica cuz i thought it would help, ended up taking them all in a week. to combat withdrawals with small doses of sulfate. So now im worried Im dealing with a two pronged attack. I got sulfate and phenibut(too hopefully help with the lyrica withdrawal) coming at 10 today so not much longer. Im going for a taper schedule with my girl. Im praying it will work though starting at such a low dose of 100mg every 5 hours scares me. Wish me luck. If you have any advice please help

 

[simco]

Hey, JS, and welcome to BL!

It sounds like you're pretty experienced with this stuff, but at first read, it strikes me that the lyrica WD shouldn't be too huge of an issue...you were just doing them for a week, right? If so, you're unlikely to see a lot of physical blowback from stopping those.

The tianeptine, though, does sound rough. We're you doing 10g/day IV?

Of course it's totally up to you, but would you consider writing about your WD/recovery as a "journal" here on Sober Living? A lot of folks find that keeping a recovery journal of some kind is helpful for themselves. But it's definitely helpful for other people looking to get out from under an addiction. This one could be especially helpful since we don't have a lot of info on the forum about coming of tianeptine. I think a lot of folks would be interested. I certainly would

Best, best luck with the kick. I hope you'll consider keeping us looped in.
Sim

 

[JS210041]

Yes i was trying to do that myself and i don't know how to change it to journal.

no not IV just oral.

My starting advice to anyone taking it and looking to get off, is the sooner the better. In my experience the W/D mentally are twice as bad even though im taking way less. Had i just quit 3 months ago i would be golden. I had 5 days. Now granted that was 5 days with 0 sleep. But 5 days none the less. I was at the hump. Im sorry its really hard to type right now most of my attention is going towards survival due to im at work

 

[simco]

I went ahead and anointed this thread a 'detox journal.' I hope that was OK. If you'd rather have it be a 'recovery journal' I can easily make that change. It's your preference entirely!

 

[Jabberwocky]

So Ive got a long story so ill just post where im at now.


Basically Im at the point of barely returning on my feet. Im a freaking addict to the core. Last year i fell back into like 300mg oxy codone a day. I withdrew from that no problem. And then i heard about this drug called tianeptine thats good for repairing an addicts mind and depression. I thought my god this is it. Bullshit. 12.5mg turned into needing 100mg, to 200mg to 400mg, to 1 gram a day to 5 to finally 10 fucking grams a day. Yes this is obsurd. So finally in december i decided fuck this shit i need to get off. So i told my parents and we went to the doctor. Doctors know nothing about this drug. like at all. So they sent me to the hospital, which they took my vitals and sent me home. The withdrawals from this drug are fucking INSANE. I cant compare it to benzos or heroin tho i have heard at this level its close. This drug... its not about the shitting and throwing up or the physical things.. it destroys you mentally....
anyways i relapsed and had multiple boughts of trying to get off and failing miserably. Ive made my way down to what i think is 1 gram a day. and im on the weaker version of the drug sulfate. Last week i got 60 lyrica cuz i thought it would help, ended up taking them all in a week. to combat withdrawals with small doses of sulfate. So now im worried Im dealing with a two pronged attack. I got sulfate and phenibut(too hopefully help with the lyrica withdrawal) coming at 10 today so not much longer. Im going for a taper schedule with my girl. Im praying it will work though starting at such a low dose of 100mg every 5 hours scares me. Wish me luck. If you have any advice please help

What is this "sulfate" you're speaking of OP? Sorry if I missed it.

I highly recommend getting on gapabentin or baclofen for a period of time, tapering slowly, in order to get you off the pregabalin. Phenibut would technically be better than nothing, but it can be a very unpredictable drug and, without the proper analytical instruments, very difficult to accurately dose or use for tapering. And what you need to be doing is finding a drug to help with tapering.

I'd also take a serious look into an extended detox program using buprenoprhine or methadone. Basically you'd be on it for six months, first stabilizing during the first month and then tapering down to zero over the next five. That will make a big difference in address the mess you've landed in from the tianeptine.

But if nothing else, try and get your hands on some gabapentin or baclofen (I'd go with baclofen myself, you just have to be careful not to dose too high on this as it can be just as bad a dependency as pregabalin, phenibut or gapabentin). In some ways gabapentin might work better for you however, because once a tolerance is developed there is only so much you can take and experience any effect, and it sounds like you have struggles to control you're medication intake/management.

 

[JS210041]

I have considered methadone, or bupe however, what do i say when i go to that doctor? Do i say Im coming off tianeptine or do i say im coming off a opiate. In my experience no one in the states has any info on tianeptine they just send me home. What are the qualifications for methadone? do i need to lie? Also i kinda messed up my chance with any gaba or lyrica. This doc helped me out and i fucked it.

The sulfate version is a much weaker version. Some say 3 times as weak. So that was a really good switch, god i just wanna feel normal again guys. Screw this .

 

[Jabberwocky]

I hear you. Buprenorphine would probably be more appropriate than methadone if you have never had any form of formal treatment before and are not an injection drug user or pregnant woman (it can be difficult to get on methadone unless you have a document track record of three or more "treatment failure", are pregnant and/or with a record of injection opioid use or covered in track marks).

Your best bet is educating yourself, if you aren't already, on the way tianeptine works. For all practical purposes, it is an opioid, especially at the doses you were using it on. Try and find a nationally recognized outpatient based buprenorphine treatment program through a major hospital, ideally a university hospital (UCLA for instance has a really great opioid treatment program, as does John Hopkins and many others). When you go in for the consult, bring a bunch of clinical information on tianeptine, which we can probably help you organize here on BL (either here or in OD).

There is a link in the SL Directory on buprenorphine treatment providers though SAMHSA's website you can use to find a provider near you. You can basically start calling them up and asking about what local hospitals have outpatient buprenorphine treatment programs and go from there with your research.

Even though it is relatively rare and unheard of in the states, any worthwhile program would have staff who would immediately recognize the nature of your dependency and okay an outpatient buprenorphine treatment program. Emphasize that you replaced your considerable oxycodone habit with tianeptine, and that should get their attention.

Of course, you can still try and taper yourself in the meantime. Have you ever tried substituting kratom for the tianeptine? Actually that sounds like it may be a viable option, possibly even more appropriate at this stage than buprenorphine and certainly worth trying. I just wouldn't suggest mixing the two due to any possible unknown interactions (tianeptine and kratom that is).

 

[JS210041]

I have tried kratom, that i found locally and some from the web both im unsure of quality as i have not tried them while sober. I know we can't talk sources (trust me i've been lurking for months and have read probably most of what has been posted here) but i found it almost no use. Ive been on the tianeptine subreddit for awhile now, and the conclusion is that whether it just shoots your tolerance to ungodly levels, or it must be effecting something more. Ive seen reports on it effects the glutamate system or whatever. Ive seen people say its a tca, and then ive seen no its not a tca. its just hard to know. I think something like longterm bupe would help tho... I just always fall back to opiates and i hate it. If i can just keep that out of my mind/ know they wont be effective anyway that would help. Ive also been going to an NA group in town.

 

[Jabberwocky]

That is kind of what I was thinking with kratom, that it's past the point of being helpful right now. I think you know what you need to do in terms of getting yourself on a good buprenorphine program though. I can see that really helping, especially you yourself already know it is going to be a challenge to maintain long term abstinence without any kind of pharmacotherapy (after all, this is what landed you in your current situation I imagine).

You clearly have a good head on your shoulders and are intelligent enough to work out with a buprenorphine treatment provider the legitimate nature and very real need of ORT in your case. Please let us know how we can assist you in this matter (always feel free to pm one of the mods for help locating a good local center if you don't want to post about your location publicly).

What do you think about putting together a kind of info packet for the doctor(s) you eventually find to work with on your ORT?

 

[JS210041]

by the way I truly appreciate this advice and anymore anyone else brings, im at the point where im like the little kid that jumped in the deep of the pool without realizing he couldnt swim to good and is flapping his arms doing anything to get back to land. I will follow up on this bupe plan and make some calls today. While i might hit a nerve raising a red flag to DEA since its still legal, I really dont care. Something that can cause this much pain needs to be harder to get than hitting the order button and receiving it the next day.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I wouldn't worry about raising any flags with the DEA. No one person can get a substance banned, unless you're a politicians kid who ODs or something and the parents are out for vengeance. Do what you need to do for yourself. That is all that matters in the world right now. And it sounds like you've got a great action plan for today and the coming days.

How you describe the way you're feeling right now jumping into the deep end of the pool, well, that sounds exactly like waking up in early recovery! This is a good sign! You're gaining some profound awareness into your situation and, more importantly, making decisions about what is really most important to you in your life (your wellbeing versus drug use). Sounds pretty empowering, if scary as shit, to me

 

[JS210041]

Im definitely interested in putting together some info if any one is willing to help. Im going to call at break and see when i can get an appointment. I have really good insurance and make great money so thats not an issue. I also kind of need help finding a place to call for bupe appointment if anyone will help with that too. I know about the online searcher but i dont want to go to just any bupe doctor

 

[Jabberwocky]

I hear you. PM me your location and I'll try and see how I can help. I can't promise the fastest of results, but I'll discuss it with folks and see what we can come up with.

Honestly, it may very well come down to calling local providers and sussing them out a bit over the phone, but I do have the name of a buprenorphine ORT advocate who I will get for you later today who I know would be happy to help put you in touch with a quality local program (really an amazing doctor who has done a lot to advance the treatment of opioid use disorder - unfortunately I forget the name of his off the top of my head, but a colleague works with him sometimes and I'll get it from her).

 

[JS210041]

So, i slept for about 5 hours last night. Woke up at about 12:30 and coasted awake until about 5:00 and here i am now at work. This thing is going to be a monster to get through guys.... Sorry i really can't type much. Im doing everything i can to not throw myself out a window. Man i can't wait for 2 weeks to fly by and i can look on this thread with a sober eye and say man.... fuck that im never going back, Ive never experienced this kind of pain guys... not through any other withdrawal experience

 

[simco]

Sorry to hear you're feeling rough. We're all pulling for you, though. You totally have this.

 

[JS210041]

So as sim said it the lyrica seems to have had no W/D symptoms thank god. Spared by my maker for sure. No one should read into that and take that much though. That is my unique experience

 

[JS210041]

Guys i literally am on the edge of giving up. I dont want to do this anymore. I feel like my brain will never recover. Everytime I have almost escaped this drug it has drug me back in. I slipped up last week and bought more secretly. Im a fucking mess man. If i could end it all i would. Idk what to do.

 

[the last dose]

Guys i literally am on the edge of giving up. I dont want to do this anymore. I feel like my brain will never recover. Everytime I have almost escaped this drug it has drug me back in. I slipped up last week and bought more secretly. Im a fucking mess man. If i could end it all i would. Idk what to do.

Hang in there almost everybody fucks up some! just keep up the fight. By your comments it sounds like your ready and really want to end this time. And go to sleep as late as you can i was only getting 3 hours sleep at the most at your point so i knew if i fell alsleep at 10pm id be up by 1 and laying awake till 6am so my goal was making it to midnight. good luck

 

[Jabberwocky]

Guys i literally am on the edge of giving up. I dont want to do this anymore. I feel like my brain will never recover. Everytime I have almost escaped this drug it has drug me back in. I slipped up last week and bought more secretly. Im a fucking mess man. If i could end it all i would. Idk what to do.

Did you have any luck with the treatment provider I pm'd you the info of?

 

[JS210041]

So here i am boys 5 days deep. Feeling 5x the man i was a week ago. Confident and excited about life.

Let me tell you how i got here though ;]

Basically sunday night I ran out of tianeptine. That Monday morning, all the symptoms started kicking in. The worst being that this is the first time I was legit considering self harm. Scariest place I've ever been. That being said someone on another site gave me advice on how they came off similar levels of tia.

THIS METHOD IS NOT ADVISED


I only did this because like i said i was at a point of no return. And i figured if i was going out, Im going out trying to get clean. I ended up taking like 100mg loperamide, and about 120mg of dxm about maybe more. Within hours the thoughts were subsiding, my legs were still. I still in my head couldn't accept that i was out of this yet though. I followed up with a doc appointment i had made. Again I got the "I dont know what that is but you shouldn't do bath salts"... Lmao Since I clearly know its not even close to bath salts i didnt pay any attention. Anyways he did prescribe me Buspar and hydroxizine. The buspar honestly in my opinion over the days has helped me level out 20x faster than i would have just because i think the tia basically killed all the things buspar helps recreate. And since the lope killed my restless legs the hydroxizine actually allowed me to sleep everynight this week! The dxm also leveled out my mind. It seems i was thinking more about the good future instead of the impending doom. Im down to no dxm and about 20mg lope today. And today i get my lyrica back for my fibromyalgia so ill just jump off everything but the buspar and go on with my life. Like i said I really don't advise that much lope but in the most absolute worst time, it saved me. I think the dxm and buspar are absolutely necessary as well. Mixed with a little self brought hope.

Anyone out there struggling with this, I know its the hardest thing in the world from my experiences to come off without help. No one will listen to you. The crazy looks you get. It's insanity. Even when i was using during the last 4 months of this ordeal, i cannot tell you how much i cried. Basically accepting i had doomed my mind to this BUT IT CAN BE FUCKING BEAT, I say this with tears of joy.

You can do this.