• Psychedelic Drugs

    Welcome Guest

    Forum GuidelinesBluelight Rules

Thoughts on psychedelics influencing the evolution of mankind.

Phaxius

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
54
Here's some brief stuff nasa has to say about some ancient sites with astronomical significance, built long before telescopes or what we call science (as far as we know). Ancient history is pieced together based on theories from investigation of what is left behind and patterns of cultural progression throughout recorded history. Anyways, here are some links:

http://sunearthday.nasa.gov/2005/locations/stonehenge.htm - Stonehenge
http://sunearthday.nasa.gov/2005/locations/newgrange.htm - Newgrange
http://sunearthday.nasa.gov/2005/locations/egypt_stone.htm - Nabata
http://sunearthday.nasa.gov/2005/locations/machupicchu.htm - Machu Picchu
http://sunearthday.nasa.gov/2005/locations/brodgar.htm - Brodgar

One way or another, and for whatever purpose these ancient people observed at least some aspect of nature and built something that relates to what they perceived. In these cases, the main correlation is related to the sun on the summer solstice.

All words are invented by humans. In the pursuit of attempt to explain something to each other if there are no words that fit a concept or perception we invent them over time. In experiencing the inexplicable, it is not too far fetched that some may either invent the terminology to describe things, or relate them in some way to similar attributes of experience which we are all somewhat familiar with (such as nature). Development of language from scratch would be a pretty long process, as grammatical structure must evolve with the introduction of new words and concepts.

Here are some articles on psychedelics and language:

http://www.drugtext.org/pdf/Psychedelics/the-effects-of-psychedelic-experience-on-language-functioning.pdf
http://mazerunner.wordpress.com/2007/10/15/the-noetic-connection-synesthesia-psychedelics-and-language/
http://ww2.psy.cuhk.edu.hk/~mael/papers/RamachandranHubbard_Synaesthesia.pdf

Even today there are really no words that do the psychedelic experience any justice, but our languages are complex enough to come up with some way to relay often inadequate descriptions of what we experience. In the meantime, based off of some of those truly inexplicable moments of perception some are inspired to interpret the personal meaning of those experiences to assist in crafting relatively coherent insight on many things. Of course this does not mean it is correct, but such powerful experiences could easily affect one's spiritual path, and by association the path of many others.

I am of a mind that the beliefs of humans have long tipped the scales in determining the direction of society. Emotion often overpowers reason, and the deeper seeded the belief, the less likely reason will have much impact on a person's ideology. This applies to science and religion in ways. Both tend to refute the other, but neither can explain everything except in general terms...science might say unknown, while religion might say god. I just say I don't know and think about it while digging around for information. It seems regardless the pursuit for understanding, a measure of success is in finding more questions the deeper you go. Anyways, rambling...
 

Kittycat5

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
9,297
Location
In a kitchen
What sort of a thing? Examples would be helpful.
What examples do you mean? If you mean examples of what the earliest man perceived, just look around. If you mean links to scholarly papers, I do not have any nor think it relevant. I am not speaking scientifically, rather philosophically. And philosophy requires no wastebaskets.
 

elucidator

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
214

rickolasnice

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
6,812
Because things we consider to be common safe food were likely poisonous to us in the past, garlic, rhubarb, grapes (poisonous to dogs). That could have happened by luck, as in poison ivy, or it could have been we were forced to survive by eating these, as in European's immunity to smallpox which killed off Native Americans which came from livestock (domesticated animals).
Now we still carry smallpox and other parasites and diseases which then become part of our microbiome.
It is necessary to consider our mind is a maze of complex tasks.Those tasks was originated because of outside influences of nature. Fear of spiders. The spiders evolved that into us. Our reactions to different colors, seeing red (blood) versus seeing green (healthy land). But these are external sources of evolution, it may very well be an internal source, perhaps alcohol changes a function of the mind to our benefit, giving us adrenaline surges, and so we just incorporate it permanently into our system. Copy it and use it. I can not really explain the process, but you get the idea. Alcohol is not only a poison, but beer was also a source of clean water and so it is a natural consequence that we drank lots of beer; it aided in our survival. We likewise would have eaten lots of poisons and may even be predisposed now to enjoy some degree of poisoning because it expands our survival retinue.
Evidence for any of this?

The reason drugs work in our brain is because our receptors aren't a 1 plug only thing.. Many things will fit it.. I really don't get your point.

There would have been untold amounts of things to eat.. 99% of plants are not psychedelic let alone psychoactive.. And no. The fear of spiders is a learned thing (parents most likely) and probably because there are a lot of dangerous spiders.. Not to mention they are commonly living around humans but are very different from us.

And I highly doubt beer aided in our survival. There's a lot more water to drink that there is beer.. And you call it a poison and "clean water" in the same sentence.. you high bro? We don't enjoy being poisoned.. we may enjoy the affects of some poisons but that isn't because it's poisonous.

I honestly don't see what point you're trying to make is.
 

pmoseman

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
1,576
Location
United States
Evidence for any of this?

The reason drugs work in our brain is because our receptors aren't a 1 plug only thing.. Many pieces will fit it.. I really don't get your point.

There would have been untold amounts of things to eat.. 99% of plants are not psychedelic let alone psychoactive.. And no. The fear of spiders is a learned thing (parents most likely) and probably because there are a lot of dangerous spiders.. Not to mention they are commonly living around humans but are very different from us.

And I highly doubt beer aided in our survival. There's a lot more water to drink that there is beer. And you call it a poison and "clean water" in the same sentence.. you high bro? We don't enjoy being poisoned.. we may enjoy the affects of some poisons but that isn't because it's poisonous.

I honestly don't see what point you're trying to make is.
You naturally bring up a lot of the same questions I have in terms of evolution. Nature vs nurture, macro vs micro. I think a fear of spiders is more than simply learned behavior. Spiders and mammals have been long competing for survival. Read all about it.
I have raised several cats, they recognize slender flexible things as snakes and react to them differently, backing away, striking the head. Spiders might be learned but there is some instinct at work there as well.
We have a natural diversity of mixed traits, where different people are fit for different tasks. It is all about survival. Your interest in consuming pineapple and my fear of heights, as a group we stand a better chance of surviving. If we vary our methods. The interplay between genetics and learning is an interest of mine. I think our different view points and disagreements are just instinct; if we learn something crucial, it can become ingrained in our offspring. (elephants?)
There is evidence for what I said, I watched some show about how beer was safer to drink than water, which was full of dysentery and other pathogens. Alcohol (ethanol) is a poison but it also was not biologically toxic, it has a predictable dose you can survive on. The fermentation of beer treats the biological waste in the water, and alcohol will kill off these pathogens.
It would have been less likely to kill you than drinking water and not as strong as today's common beverage.
The foods I listed are poisonous to dogs, which is another mammal. Why are they not toxic to us?
If you stop and think about it. What if we all only ate one kind of food. We refused to go after anything dangerous, like a wild animal, thorny, like a cactus, or toxic, like shell-fish or red berries. If you do this for a million years, there would be only thorny, wild, poisonous food left to eat.
Today we farm and raise livestock, but if you go back half a million years, people simply wandered around the planet finding unfamiliar food to eat.
My point is that within our diversity you have people that like intoxicating substances. This aids our long term survival. The more well-known case I present here is beer. People.did not know that beer was healthy, they just liked it. If they knew it was healthy, they simply would boil out water to make it drinkable and not relied on witchcraft to cure diseases. Bacteria is something we understand now, so it seems like common sense, but do you think a ditsy teenager knows how to purify their drinking water?
A psychedelic consumable may just be good food. Those with an affinity to eating psychedelic mushrooms would have survived; it is rather difficult to tell poisonous mushrooms apart. Mushrooms go through their own evolutionary processes to survive. It could just be a happy accident but I think there could definitely be more to it than happy accident.
How long have mushrooms and people been together? What changes in our mental processes could have protected us from the deleriousness nature of psilocybin? Now apply that to something like grapes, where we are safe from it as a poison. Other mammals have not adapted to eat grapes. This has aided our survival in some way. Maybe the very interest in eating "forbidden fruit" is in the long run an ally. It is how we have grown to adapt more rapidly and survive, we may die eating poison, but that risk is kept in check by others members who make it forbidden. This comes back to that diversity and instinct that is guiding our lives. Our affinity to consume poison may seem unwise, but now a grape is not a poison, and isn't that good?
We also may have had no choice but to eat grapes, as we grew. I do not know. I am just attempting to lay a foundation to support some ideas.
 
Last edited:

pmoseman

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
1,576
Location
United States
People also fear things that resemble themselves, humans, but have something just a little off about them.
The arms are too long, hidden eyes, and so on. Imagine the terror of seeing a woman who turns around and shows the head of a horse.
 

elucidator

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
214
These are the things I was asking for some examples of.
Some examples of things I have seen/experienced that I cannot explain fully, but getting better at it.

Energy grids, energy pathways, socio-dynamic pathways, Moksha liberation, Satori, various entities, portal...
I could go on, and I am sure others have experienced different things.
 

Kittycat5

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
9,297
Location
In a kitchen
The classic psychedelic experience. Color enhancement, visuals, auditory changes. It is very hard to put a finger on exactly what is happening under the influence of these drugs. Of course research can tell us what receptors are being used, what parts of the brain shows changes etc but there still is more there, there. This is why so many people corrolate psychedelics with spirituality. I am saying that early man's world was filled with phenomena that likewise, in fact even more so as they were tangible, unexplainable but nonetheless very real to them. This is why I see no need for drugs to be involved with our earliest conceptions of God/spirituality/religion.
 

pmoseman

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
1,576
Location
United States
Some examples of things I have experienced that I cannot explain fully, but getting better at it.

Energy grids, energy pathways, socio-dynamic pathways, Moksha liberation, Satori, various entities, portal...
I could go on, and I am sure others have experienced different things.
I would say I am familiar with those experiences. Energy grids and pathways, entities, perfect bliss, creation. It seems likely that these experiences are not the sole creation of psychedelics.
We all seem to share in these experiences. I believe they are theories that the mind developed in past stages of evolution to engage reality.
The current stage of our commonly held perceptions has filtered these out for good reason but our current commonly held perceptions are also deeply flawed. You can prove even our advanced mind is flawed with magic, optical illusions, and testing the senses. You can be tricked. Your connection with reality is tentative.
These lower states of mind come about as connections within the mind are loosened. They can be experienced but are not building us up, but breaking us down. They come about through the use of drugs without conscious effort.
Talking to a door or a wall is just that. It is defined as imagination.
It is frustrating because there is a lack of communication in western language, even in finding the right word for enlightenment, but I think Eastern religions are riddled with too many words for it, confusing explanations, unnecessary speculation, minor additions to introduce moral implications; much like Western Christianity. It promises ever-widening horizons.
Everyone should accept these experiences as real but I speculate they have been overwritten and disproven by natural selection. AKA trial & error. They do not provide us with useful information. For example, the voices cannot tell you anything you do not already know and once they run out of insightful things, the combination of prior knowledge, they have got nothing. The root of them lies within the mind, you can control them and then you go back to kidding yourself.
Yes. I made voices in my own head where I pretended to be other people talking to myself. It was rather convincing.
The energies that by all appearances react to physical activity (try hitting the ripples, I believe you had them with "socio-dynamic pathways") do not react to any physical activity or presence you would otherwise be unaware of in a "normal" mental state. In other words the "hallucinations" do not provide you with information. Think of an infrared light. You cannot see it without the goggles. In the same way these more primitive worldviews are blind to much of what is really happening. They confuse us by removing bits of reality that cannot be recovered.
They are not something most of us experience so the investigations are a bit hard to share or fact check. You can speculate and speculate. You may be worried about losing the connection. I am not willing to jump back into being crazy just to definitively prove it, again, to be false. In my mind it is a done deal.
Losing your ability to rationalize things, on one hand may be a sign that you simply "know" more and therefore do not need to think, on the other it may be a total loss of rationality with nothing gained. Knowing and doing are sadly two different things. Avoiding those thoughts is pretty dull.
Even in the presence of it, I have never seen it proven. The modern perspectives of man is a better theory of reality, dismissing these occurrences is correct. They can always be rationally explained. The more advanced perception dismisses these occurrences as fabrications of the mind.
Not what you want to hear, right?
I find the background information in our mind incredibly interesting and evidentiary in there own right. I do not think people can come and go through these different perspectives without brain damage, frankly. I can share my perspective and if it is true may be able to drag the mental capacity of primitive man out into the light a bit more. I mean, you, me, and others directly experienced primitive thinking in the same way. Every culture shares magical explanations. It is not something you want to do away with, it is what we have been built upon. I find it fascinating intellectually.
 
Last edited:
Top