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There is no opioid epidemic...

Mu_Opioid

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 1, 2021
Messages
5
Hello everyone; I am new here (long-time lurker). Firstly, I think Bluelight is a top-notch harm reduction site; the best around I would say.

My current beef is related to the so-called Opioid Epidemic® or Opioid Crisis™. It is all complete bullshit in my opinion. Having read many of the studies and watched most of the slick propaganda pieces, I believe very strongly that there is a hidden agenda. It seems very obvious to me that the overwhelming vast majority of opioid users — whether the opioids are used for analgesic purposes, recreational purposes or otherwise — do not descend into desperate and immoral addicts who escalate into fiendish and dangerous IV use. For example, the mainstream media, especially so in USA and UK, would like us to believe that everyone who uses even mild opioids will inevitably descend into degenerate IV fentanyl addicts who cook it with toilet water.

For me, there is no opioid epidemic whatsoever; there is a stringent regulation epidemic. Sure, a minority of people will indeed acquire a horrendous addiction to opioids. However, everything points to the fact that the large majority of people can use opioids wisely. We do not need our quasi-totalitarian governments to create bullshit propaganda narratives pertaining to overly-emotional opioid addiction stories. Opium (Papaver somniferum) has been utilised for thousands of years for a wide variety of health-related ailments. Perhaps “Big Pharma” dislikes the fact that Opium and its primary natural alkaloid (i.e., morphine) are extremely effective for many medical problems (e.g., analgesia for acute and chronic severe pain, severe melancholic depression, anhedonia and chronic cough to name a few).

I find it extremely annoying that it appears to be, as it were, medically illegal and socially unacceptable to consume a substance that induces both analgesia and euphoria. In other words, we are not allowed to enjoy medications that both kill pain and induce euphoria; I mean, perish the thought!

Anyway, do you believe there is an opioid epidemic? It would be interesting to read your opinions.

Have a good day and best wishes.
 

birdup.snaildown

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Mu_Opiod said:
a minority of people will indeed acquire a horrendous addiction to opioids. However, everything points to the fact that the large majority of people can use opioids wisely.

Source?
 

birdup.snaildown

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Mu_Opioid

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birdup.snaildown,

Sorry, I do not have in my possession a definitive scientific source; I am using common sense. I find that most scientific publicaitons on this topic are very biased and are often sponsored by Big Pharma corporations (with an agenda against out-of-patent opioid medications).

Thank you for the figures, but I do not necessarily find them convincing. Care to kindly share the scientific paper from which you cropped the plots? Note that the data is five years old. Also, how would I be able to ascertain if "deaths per 100,000 of the population" were not higher than 2016 prior to 1999-2000? In addition, is this the global population, population of a continent, country, region, city, town or village? Without context, the data is meaningless.
 

birdup.snaildown

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Sorry, I should have posted the link.
I am quite drunk.

This is CDC data.
Deaths/100,000 refers to fatalities from opiate overdoses within the United States.

Anyway... Here is the link:

Mu_Opioid said:
I am using common sense

This is a problem I frequently encounter with people online. Common sense doesn't trump science. It doesn't matter how smart you are. You can't out-logic reality. The CDC doesn't work for Big Pharma. The CDC isn't biased. If you don't believe the data, you don't want to believe the data. Don't underestimate the power of denial.

Mu_Opioid said:
everything points to

What is everything?
 

deficiT

Sr. Moderator: DC, TDS, NSADD
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Hey, welcome to Bluelight.

I agree in the sense that it should be called the overdose epidemic, as that's what's really happening here.

I can agree that opioids are misunderstood and that the state uses addiction as an excuse to have even more overbearing laws and regulations.

Don't get me wrong though, people ARE dying from opioid addiction and overdose at a breakneck pace and it sucks.
 
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December Flower

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Joined
Oct 22, 2020
Messages
1,125
This is a problem I frequently encounter with people online. Common sense doesn't trump science. It doesn't matter how smart you are. You can't out-logic reality.
That's probably one of the smartest things I've read on the internet

Absolutely agreed. People think that just because they have some capacity for intelligence, they don't need to acquire real data, because they can just "think it through". It's a common misconception. Intelligence means nothing, if you don't feed it with data. As much data as possible

@OP Check out some of the documentaries about Vancouver Downtown, there you find all the video proof you need. There's an opioid crisis. A fucking fentanyl crisis, and it's killing young people like flies
 

Mu_Opioid

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Joined
Apr 1, 2021
Messages
5
Many thanks for the warm welcome, @deficiT. :)

Thank you for the link to the source @birdup.snaildown. I will take a look at the content and respond to your assertions.

@December Flower, I will indeed view some documentaries about the issue in Vancouver. I am fond of watching drug-related documentaries and I will watch with interest.

As regards my use of the term “common sense”, please note that this is not about my “intelligence”, it is merely my belief that a scientific paper of this nature does not exist, primarily because it would require millions of medical patients and perhaps decades of data. Furthermore, this type of study is probably never going to be funded.

I think my initial post may have been misconstrued somewhat. My main point is that the overwhelming vast majority of people who use opioids will not proceed to develop a very serious addiction. Consider the few opiates and the multitude of semi-synthetic/synthetic opioids in existence — with varying mu agonist activity (in terms of mu opioid binding affinity) — that people take on a regular basis:

Mild Opioids

• Loperamide
• Codeine
• Dihydrocodeine
• Tramadol

Moderate Opioids

• Morphine
• Opium (Papaver Somniferum)
• Oxycodone
• Hydrocodone
• Diacetylmorphine/Diamorphine

Very Potent Opioids

• Fentanyl
• Oxymorphone
• Hydromorphone
• Levomethadone

The use of morphine is extremely common in a vast number of young and elderly cancer patients in palliative care. How many of these patients are going to escalate to dangerous IV fentanyl addiction? Close to zero in my opinion. Loperamide (Imodium) is utilised as an anti-diarrheal medication by a vast number of people on a global scale. Regardless of the blood-brain barrier and p-glycoprotein inhibitor argument, loperamide is still a relatively potent mu agonist in its own right. Codeine and dihydrocodeine are used as mild analgesics (e.g., for back pain); these are OTC medications in the UK (typically combined with paracetamol or ibuprofen).

My point is this: only a small fraction of global users of opioids will eventually escalate into degenerate and strung out IV users. Though severe addicts certainly exist in substantial numbers, the actual number of severe opioid addicts (relative to the number of users who use opioids as directed by their physician/a pharmacist) does not constitute an epidemic/crisis.
 
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PriestTheyCalledHim

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
13,060
Hello everyone; I am new here (long-time lurker). Firstly, I think Bluelight is a top-notch harm reduction site; the best around I would say.

My current beef is related to the so-called Opioid Epidemic® or Opioid Crisis™. It is all complete bullshit in my opinion. Having read many of the studies and watched most of the slick propaganda pieces, I believe very strongly that there is a hidden agenda. It seems very obvious to me that the overwhelming vast majority of opioid users — whether the opioids are used for analgesic purposes, recreational purposes or otherwise — do not descend into desperate and immoral addicts who escalate into fiendish and dangerous IV use. For example, the mainstream media, especially so in USA and UK, would like us to believe that everyone who uses even mild opioids will inevitably descend into degenerate IV fentanyl addicts who cook it with toilet water.

For me, there is no opioid epidemic whatsoever; there is a stringent regulation epidemic. Sure, a minority of people will indeed acquire a horrendous addiction to opioids. However, everything points to the fact that the large majority of people can use opioids wisely. We do not need our quasi-totalitarian governments to create bullshit propaganda narratives pertaining to overly-emotional opioid addiction stories. Opium (Papaver somniferum) has been utilised for thousands of years for a wide variety of health-related ailments. Perhaps “Big Pharma” dislikes the fact that Opium and its primary natural alkaloid (i.e., morphine) are extremely effective for many medical problems (e.g., analgesia for acute and chronic severe pain, severe melancholic depression, anhedonia and chronic cough to name a few).

I find it extremely annoying that it appears to be, as it were, medically illegal and socially unacceptable to consume a substance that induces both analgesia and euphoria. In other words, we are not allowed to enjoy medications that both kill pain and induce euphoria; I mean, perish the thought!

Anyway, do you believe there is an opioid epidemic? It would be interesting to read your opinions.

Have a good day and best wishes.
You are in denial, and sound like or maybe you are that idiot junkie waste of space Carl Hart.


There has been an opioid epidemic in North America and in Western Europe, and parts of Central Europe since the early 1960s, and heroin has easily been easy to get in Australia as well for decades.

The opioid epidemic has very rapidly gotten worse and more widespread and now with the internet or darkweb, or the demand for opiates, it is super easy to get them basically no matter where you are, fentanyl is in fake pills, in cocaine, and it was always sold as heroin. The opioid pandemic is so strong that heroin is easily available in other African, South American, and Central/Latin American countries. Heroin and opium have always been super easy to grow, acquire, etc. in all of the Asian countries in all regions. A South Asian friend once joked saying, 'We south Asians invented drugs like hashish, marijuana, and opium! But the majority of us do not use any drugs.'


Also the list of opioids from soft, moderate, to strong does not make sense. Addiction and overdose with death can happen with all of them.
 
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AutoTripper

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Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
2,965
I just wonder if “wisely” is in ways an incongruous term regarding Opiate usage.

I’m sure there could be occasions where it was wise, like if James Bond had to take the shot to save the Hostage’s life, the demanded condition set by the crazy terrorist, and it was the only way to save the world, I guess he would be wise to do so.

I just think I would seek another term.

Although, while I would never try to bring the concept of Wiseness into a discussion on benzos, I can see at times it can be considered wise in some way for me take a benzo dose at specific times, save me freaking out or struggling with survival necessities due to being in a mental turmoil.

But it’s a mug’s game ultimately and there’s no wisdom in that.

But then opioids are very different ofc and maybe have wise applicability in places.
 

dalpat077

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Messages
1,463
No offense to anyone (as usual) but this reminding me, somewhat eerily, of another thread on which I just responded! Coincidence? Hope so.

The only possible saving grace here may be what the broader definition is of an "epidemic". So let's tone that one down a notch for the sake of argument and call it a "problem". Well opioid use and abuse is then an (escalating) "problem". Based on data. Not opinion. Nor on personal logic. And not based on data gathered from sources that tend to sensationalize things either.

You know the saying "if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck..."! :ROFLMAO:

More alarming (to me anyway) than denying there's an epidemic (or a "problem") is the shift in substances (opioids) of choice (and sometimes not even a choice anymore). DEA and UNODC Intelligence Reports make my point clear (to name but two sources that I doubt very much could be deemed as "sensationalist") (but there's more i.e. feel free to ask as I have more than a passing interest in said statistics and reports). :)
 
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Mu_Opioid

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 1, 2021
Messages
5
PriestTheyCalledHim, AutoTripper and dalpat077, thank you for sharing your views. I respectfully disagree with your main points, the reasons for which I have already specified. Please note that I do not subscribe to "the argument from authority" that you're relying on. Extremely bureaucratic medicine-related institutions such as NHS, MHRA, FDA, CDC, NIH, DEA and UNODC are not trustworthy in my opinion. The conflicts of interest in which these organisations engage are astounding. When you have a spare moment, learn about public-private partnerships. In addition, perhaps consider perusing some of these organisations' pension fund investments.

By the way, please refrain from making points in a strident and condescending tone; it is irritating and comes across as emotionally immature. Furthermore, when making points, perhaps consider being more concise instead of padding your posts with superfluous language.
 

Mu_Opioid

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 1, 2021
Messages
5
This is a problem I frequently encounter with people online. Common sense doesn't trump science. It doesn't matter how smart you are. You can't out-logic reality. The CDC doesn't work for Big Pharma. The CDC isn't biased. If you don't believe the data, you don't want to believe the data. Don't underestimate the power of denial.

I agree with your opinion about science and common sense.

The CDC does not publish peer reviewed scientific papers as far as I'm aware. CDC can therefore assert facts and figures at will (whether or not they're accurate) without being subject to rigorous peer review.
 

AutoTripper

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Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
2,965
PriestTheyCalledHim, AutoTripper and dalpat077, thank you for sharing your views. I respectfully disagree with your main points, the reasons for which I have already specified. Please note that I do not subscribe to "the argument from authority" that you're relying on. Extremely bureaucratic medicine-related institutions such as NHS, MHRA, FDA, CDC, NIH, DEA and UNODC are not trustworthy in my opinion. The conflicts of interest in which these organisations engage are astounding. When you have a spare moment, learn about public-private partnerships. In addition, perhaps consider perusing some of these organisations' pension fund investments.

By the way, please refrain from making points in a strident and condescending tone; it is irritating and comes across as emotionally immature. Furthermore, when making points, perhaps consider being more concise instead of padding your posts with superfluous language.
Well excuse me then that case for, not exactly trying tbf, but simply being philosophical, regarding the concept of wisdom and the use of Opiates, and Benzos (which I very unwisely got myself heavily addicted to).

And hey, of all people on this forum or anywhere, I need as little convincing about the questionable legitimacy and underlying intent of any particular mainstream official government “body”.

I’m the biggest conspiracy (as they conveniently call it) head you will meet.

My eyes are as....(pick one) open/deluded as can be.

Put it this way, I have zero zero intention of complying by rolling up my sleeve for Mrs Nurse with a big smile like a good Happy Bunny. And I can tell you now, there is no incentive garnered in my mind, or tears of pride poised in their ducts, to “save lives, protect the NHS”.

The iceberg just keeps on growing. So personally I need no persuading or educating on that topic or concept.

I didn’t actually insinuate anything towards or about you personally either, only suggesting that ideally we would find alternate methods of coping, managing mental or physical pain, without using physically addictive drugs known for vicious withdrawals.

And I did also say that Opiates may well have their rightful place and application regardless.

I’m entirely inexperienced with and uneducated on Opiates, besides a cold turkey Kratom withdrawal from 4 weeks ill advised daily use, forced to stop abruptly.

That wasn’t pleasant.

So uneducated, yes. Uncontributive, I accept.

Superfluous? That’s debatable in any context, never is my aim, but I won’t straight out deny it in court.

But it’s the accusation I think I would challenge.

The Zebra’s stripes and mannerisms are no crime or insult in themselves. I would argue that intent and consequence in some sort of algebra, is where we calculate crime.
 
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Delsyd

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How do you explain all the people dropping dead from fentanyl overdoses? Even casual users who unknowingly buy a fake oxy that’s actually fent. Counterfeit pills are a huge problem. And the prevalence of fentanyl in other non opioid street drugs (coke, meth, K).
The face of the epidemic today is fentanyl but it started from overprescribing OxyContin and creating a generation of addicts who later sought drugs on the street. And then fentanyl becoming a street drug and the most prevalent opioid because it’s super potent and therefore super profitable.
 

Pickledlemons

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My point is this: only a small fraction of global users of opioids will eventually escalate into degenerate and strung out IV users.
You could make a respectable argument here, but how the hell do you jump the gap between this and 'there is no opioid epidemic'. This thread is dangerous.

 
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