Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

[Captain.Heroin]

Hey guys.
Today I realized that my life is not what I want it to be and I am not who I could be, even should be.
I was in room, full of syringes and I realized that I'm a slave. I don't want this for my life. This is not what we dreamed growing up would be like as kids.
Fuck, grown man moaning here about some shit. I don't know. I feel like I can't talk about my problems to anyone since I don't trust people.
Buprenorphine - If i don't get it, I suffer.
It's hell. It's worse than heroin.
I bought some pregabalin and i'm going to start dropping my dose. I go straight to 1mg a day, I do now like 2-4mg a day.
Pregabalin will help with the withdrawals which come from dropping the dose.
I do bupre IV, so it's more potent than the subuxone strips in mouth. I use subutex, it's the pill whitout naloxone.
I wish everyone great luck and good fate in their journey!
Best regards - DMW

I had tons of needles/etc and a lot of that was daunting to let go of / leave behind. I know what you mean.

Have you tried tapering before?

 

[Yacking]

Well....I still haven't "cheated" at all.
I don't get tempted to up my klonopin again, yet, but man do the Xanax get tempting.
I feel like hell comes in waves and I'm still not even halfway through.

I was going to drop from 1.25 to 1mg today since I've been dropping every 2 weeks but I feel so overheated today (cold washcloths and water are my best friend) and I've had a headache for 4 days with muscles tight all through my face, neck, back and I'm clenching my jaw so I went for a dentist check up.

I feel AWEFUL but there's no way out but through so I'm just keeping on going.

These worked great when I needed them but damn, not worth it at all.

Just venting. Kinda not thinking clear either.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Fucking hell! That’s what I am going through right now.

My micro taper has been on hold since 7/31 when all of a sudden out of nowhere I started getting cortisol spikes around 3 in the morning. Since then my sleep schedule has deteriorated to the point that I can’t fall asleep until like noon now. My anxiety is at the highest it has been since I started tapering, with constant runs into the panic range, my resting pulse is up 15-20 BPM, and nothing I do seems to help.

I am totally paralyzed right now. I’m at 1.3mg of Valium which is way too early for someone as dependent as me to jump. I tried some CBD flower last night (8.47% CBD/.289% THC), just a tiny hit from a pipe, and despite everyone reassuring me that you won’t have a panic attack from CBD, I sure as hell did!

I had food poisoning on Tuesday which also caused me to have even more anxiety which required me to updose but that was only 2.7mg for the day (I ended up taking a 2mg pill in the morning and a 2mg pill at night instead of taking 13mL of my solution because I was afraid the PG would cause me to vomit) and shouldn’t have any real repercussions.

I am kind of at the end of my rope here. I really hoped the CBD would give me some kind of relief but here I am lying in bed 6 1/2 hours later still feeling like crap. My personal care assistant will be here in 3 1/2 hours so there is no chance for me to get to bed until she leaves 5 1/2 hours from now.

I just want relief. It’s so tempting to throw in the towel. I have some Magnolia extract I got from a certain place but with my reactions to crap lately, I am scared to even try it. I have had it for a few months now, got it with a phenibut order (another thing that doesn’t agree with me apparently - I got it so I could hopefully go sit in the dental chair but the rebound was horrid despite a low ~300mg dose).

At this point I don’t know what to do. My nervous system is totally fried. Thanks for letting me vent.

 

[Yacking]

Hi.
Tried to find your original threads/posts this morning but they seem to have disappeared. I was just trying to figure out where the Xanax came into the picture all of a sudden is all (just don't remember you mentioning Xanax when you first started posting here but I could be wrong). Whatever the case: not worth it I assure you. Klonopin was your big concern. That I do remember. And good for you for not having cheated and for not upping your Klonopin dosage again. I'm sure I don't have to make you aware that's simply a step backwards.

Dropping every two weeks: fantastic. I assume you're talking about Klonopin of course. Just remember it ain't a race. If you feel it's getting too much stay on the current dosage for an extra week if you must and then start another taper or reduction. No harm done. And no loss of face.

As for headaches and aches and pains: there are OTC meds. you can take as I'm sure you know. In other words: you don't need to resort to using a ten pound hammer (another powerful drug or benzo.) to crack open a walnut (or however the saying goes). We have headache powders here called "Grand-Pa Headache Powders" (made by GlaxoSmithKline). They contain nothing more than Aspirin, Paracetemol, and Caffeine. That headache of yours will be gone in a few minutes (and if not: just take another powder).

Anyway. Good luck. Sounds like you're doing fine to me.

Correct, I didn't mention it because I'm not physically dependent on it (I don't think anyway) and originally my plan was different.

I was prescribed Xanax .5 dissolvable under tongue "as needed" so didn't think for a second it would be an issue.
This was added because Klonopin "no longer works effectively" and I didn't want to up the dose another mg.

My original plan was to get off the Klonopin and just ditch the Xanax while doing so THEN after awhile use one or the other "as needed".
Now I can see clearly this is not an option. Bad idea.

The Xanax came into play during withdrawal unexpectedly starting around day 12. I had a craving for it which has never happened before. I've had that feeling a few times since. I think maybe it's my brain looking for a benzo knowing full well Klonopin isn't happening.
Sounds odd but that's the best I can describe it.
(Or maybe because I had skipped those too.)


I didn't think about aspirin! I usually take 2 Ibuprofen and a tylenol. I have aspirin but forget it exists.
Definitely worth trying.

This time I'm waiting 3 weeks.
.75 drop in Klonopin plus the Xanax I didn't realize was an issue has been pretty heavy in a 4 week span.

 

[Yacking]

@dalpat077
Well, for me personally I've never experienced anything like this before so I'm confident it's the Benzos. When I first dropped 1mg and ended up suddenly in the ER 7 days later I was told it was withdrawals.

My symptoms start 7 days after dropping and peak between 12-14 so I looked it up and from what I read that's common due to the half life.

My anxiety while ON the Benzos seemed more like anxiety when I was late taking one or would incidentally miss one.
Took me forever to figure that pattern out.

Originally I was prescribed because I was going through a grief and trauma. Not panic attacks. Those started later after I was on them.

My psych diagnosis is Major Depression. Since being on them. Chicken or egg, I don't know.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Hi.

As always: I'm really sorry to hear about what you're going through. Been there and done that (as the saying goes).

I don't know you or your history (obviously i.e. first post of your's I've seen) but how long have you been taking Valium and what dosage were you on before deciding to taper?

Bearing in mind I'm no doctor: you could try something like Zopiclone or Zolpidem (commonly referred to as "z-drugs") until things calm down a bit. They're not benzos. but rather "benzo. like" in their action. They too can be addictive but may get you through this difficult period and maybe used sparingly (believe me: the aftertaste both when taking and the next morning of Zopiclone is enough to put you off for life anyway).

Obviously as yet I don't have your answers (and it's up to you if you want to share the information or not of course). But something just occurred to me as I was replying to you and after my previous reply above to @Yacking:

Are you people sure there's not something else wrong that's as yet not been diagnosed? I ask this for two reasons: one of my "good forum friends" (I hope @Atelier3 doesn't mind my calling him a "good forum friend" but I have much respect for him and his experiences) posted something interesting the other day that basically went along the lines of the meds. that he was taking and had been taking for years were actually CAUSING his symptoms not solving the real problem i.e. a misdiagnosis. Is it not possible that it's not JUST benzo. withdrawal that's causing all of this misery? That's the first reason. The second reason is because (as some will know) I was on anywhere between 6mg - 8mg Alprozalam (Xanax) per day for a few years. I tapered in 0.25mg increments (simply by cutting 1mg tablets into the required size) biweekly. And I don't remember having any issues at all. On one or two occasions I remember having to stay on whatever dosage I was currently on for an extra week or two because I could start feeling uncomfortable and rather put myself through unnecessary discomfort I delayed the taper (but never went backwards). The only time I remember "hell on earth" is when I had run out of a prescription, could not get more until two days later, which in effect was "cold turkey" for those two days or so (that was indeed frightening and "hell on earth"). All I'm saying is why are these horrendous effects coming on so suddenly (for the both of you)? I mean to say (and I just checked my usual tables again for the umpteenth time): 1.25mg of Valium is the equivalent of 0.06mg of Xanax. Dunno if you see my point. Also and one thing I do remember: the anxiety of wondering what life was going to be like NOT being on Alprozalam (Xanax) "in my head" or psychologically was far worse than any anxiety resulting from actual withdrawal from the drug. Just an anecdote is all.

Of course: we could always have yet another discussion about the half-lives of these different benzos. (which has a profound effect on the type and amount of taper). But maybe the above is food for thought enough for now.

I mean I have taken benzos since 2004 when I started having panic attacks. Started off with Xanax as needed .5mg. I literally took it 2-3 times a month tops until like 2017 when my lung collapsed. Spontaneous pneumothorax. Just woke up one morning and couldn’t breathe so I went to urgent care and found myself whisked off to the ER. They couldn’t get my lung to reinflate so I had chemical pleurodesis.

Surgery went fine other than me waking up on the operating table and they had me hooked up to a morphine drip. Probably 6 hours after the surgery they took me off morphine and put me on Vicoprofen (I requested something without acetaminophen since I tried to commit suicide when I was 17 and it involved Tylenol, I just avoid it period). I had a panic attack, they gave me Xanax. Next dose, panic attack. They gave me a Xanax. When they discharged me I had 6 weeks of recovery during which I was taking Vicoprofen 4-6 times a day, each dose with .5mg of Xanax. And that’s how my dependency started.

Within a year, my tolerance had shot up to me taking 8mg a day between IR and XR despite me not abusing it at all and I had my doc give me Klonopin. Cut over at 4mg and the first week was hell, as expected from such a large cut, but then I was fine with it for a couple years. Stopped working one day in 2010 and escalating up to 6mg gave me no relief so I convinced my doc to give me Valium so that I could try to taper. He gave me 60mg which I tapered down to 15mg over a month and a half, had a seizure so I went back to 20mg and stayed there.

From 2012 til 2018 when I started tapering (except for 2014 when I tried tapering again and got down to 5mg before I couldn’t stand it anymore) this time, I was taking 20mg split into two daily doses with the occasional 5-10mg extra when I had high anxiety days but it was never fully effective for my anxiety and I became agoraphobic and coped with my agoraphobia with copious amounts of alcohol.

I have had plenty of medical tests and the only thing the docs ever found wrong with me was my vitamin D is chronically low and my good cholesterol tends to run on the low side even though my total is healthy.

I have mental health diagnoses of panic disorder, agoraphobia, generalized anxiety disorder, and bipolar NOS currently.

It really isn’t that uncommon for people to have such an awful time tapering from benzos. You were very fortunate to not run into the hell that so many of us do. This evening I actually was having chest pains so bad that I took 1mg just to make sure I wasn’t actually having a heart attack because this pain was a totally new pain from the normal chest pains I get when I panic and I wasn’t actually feeling the panic that I normally do. Sure enough, been about half an hour now and my eyes feel heavy, the pain is gone, and my body feels mildly euphoric. That’s not a typo either. Just 1mg. That’s how sensitive my CNS is now. It hit while I was typing this which is why it kind of got scattered in this last paragraph imo.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Sorry, I had to take a break.

I don’t advocate the baby with the bath water approach either. There are definitely uses for these drugs but they should be the last resort. There are proven techniques like CBT and exercise for anxiety and a myriad of anti seizure medications that should be tried for their respective conditions before benzodiazepines but people who need them should have access.

I only started tapering because I knew that my doc wasn’t going to increase my dose from 20mg and 20mg was not enough (if you look at my dosage history for benzos, it’s honestly impressive I made it as long as I did with 20mg, even with alcohol supplementing it). When conditions keep getting worse due to tolerance and GABA-A downregulation, it’s time to make a change.

I have read the Ashton Manual many times. I actually took an Ashton-modeled taper plan to my psychiatrist when I wanted to start the process (although that was way too fast for me, my taper is going to be 2 years more than my original plan if my pace can be maintained, longer if it can’t). She passed away last September and it’s a loss to the world for sure.

I got desperate with the cortisol spikes this morning and took 100mg of a 95%+ magnolia extract. Have to say that other than my own propensity to psyche myself out, it seems like it could be a very beneficial supplement for me. I am glad I didn’t take the 200mg that the vendor recommended because I feel that even 100mg was a bit more than I needed since I am sitting here with a bit of a buzz. I will have to play with the dosage but I think I may keep taking it. It didn’t relieve the anxiety completely but it did mellow the cortisol spike and drop my heart rate back to the 65 to 75 range. If it wasn’t for the weird body buzz, I could probably sleep. It is incredibly cheap too. A 50gram tub (which if I am correct in my dose needs would be 1000 doses) is less than $50. It’s actually known to lower cortisol which is specifically what I need right now. It’s kind of funny. I bought a sample when I bought my phenibut and never tried it. Guess my intuition knew. I pulled it out and put it next to the scale the other night and finally decided this morning to give it a shot.

EDIT: it only lasted like 3 hours but there doesn’t seem to be any rebound. I’m actually still in better shape than I was yesterday or even before I took the magnolia extract. I still haven’t slept yet but I also haven’t been trying to.

 

[Squeaky]

I spent the first 30 years of my life misdiagnosed with depression and bipolar disorder. I tried different medications, trying to fit into society and feel normal. Nothing really worked because the cure didn’t fit the disease (imagine changing a tire on your car because the engine overheated. It’s a great solution to the wrong problem).
In my 30’s I finally learned that I have high functioning Autism. None of the solutions I had ever tried could have possibly worked, and some of them came with side effects that genuinely made matters worse. Unfortunately, a lot of doctors are most interested in getting to your diagnosis (and writing your prescription) very quickly. If your condition is not obvious they now go straight to something like ’Generalized Anxiety Disorder’, presumably so they can hurry straight to your prescription. AND if the pills they give you are to cure a problem you don’t have, you now have an additional problem: getting off the pills. If you have been taking those pills for a long time, you’re pretty screwed.
For me, the best plan is to have a plan. Write it down. How many milligrams, how many times on that day, what time of the day...etc. On paper.7
Be generous - a taper that is too fast will fail. I can always skip ahead during my taper and it makes me feel proud of myself, even gives me a blast of energy to keep going. But if I fall behind because I set unattainable goals, I get mad at myself and promptly give up.
In my experience it takes 4 days to change something. I gave up soda once a long time ago. For 4 days it felt very wrong to be having a meal with only a glass of ice water. By the end of the first week I was still craving a can of Coke, but the glass of water felt perfectly normal. The addiction is real, but sometimes our ‘routine’ is real bitch to change.

Also the fear around how long the suffering will last can be crushing. When I figured out the 4 day thing my taper plans got a lot easier. Now, when I lower my dose I start counting days. I know that it starts getting easier on day 5. Instead of being scared it will suck forever and giving up on day three, I focus on 4 days and I rarely become depressed.

Good luck to all of us in this roller coaster. It’s not a good life to be addicted.

 

[Squeaky]

Yet another month of wishing for more pills. I made it half way through the month this time. Now I’m in withdrawal. Thank God for Kratom. I have been running out for 4years now. You would think I would have a better plan by now.
I see the seasons change in the decorations at my Dr’s office. I show up after being off my meds (because I ran out....) and they have up decorations for Christmas, Easter, or whatever. Then I go home and plan my putting up the Christmas lights on days when I have pills to take. I’m either numb or desperately trying to survive in withdrawal most of the time now. And it has been that way for years. I have gone grey and never saw it happening.
I need a better plan.....

 

[Squeaky]

I got my pills and a new plan (it will most likely fail but at least it’s a new plan).
Im getting basically no ‘buzz’ from my pills, regardless of how many I take. Seriously, I can take 5 oxy 30’s and only get sleepy. They help my mood a lot but I have been looking forward to the full-body pain relief that I used to get. It’s simply not there any more. When I try to take even more it only makes me dizzy any nauseous for a couple of hours. My new plan is to just pay attention to this phenomenon and remind myself that they don’t work anymore. Hopefully that will remove any pleasure associated with using the pills with breakfast, enjoying a movie, etc...
The only way this can work though is if I don’t have any restrictions on how many I can take, and when I can take them. So this month I will not be asking my partner to hold my pills. She doesn’t know my plan, and so far My usage is equal to the worst I’ve ever had(but I expected it would get worse before it got better).
Here’s the thinking: If I quit when I’m hooked on something very pleasurable, then I will spend the whole rest of my life missing it and every day risking a relapse. Right now it isn’t really pleasing. It makes my mind more clear, but the “high” that I’m chasing doesn’t exist anymore. I need pain relief, but I can get that from Kratom. Wouldn’t it be awesome if my last memory of oxycodone be that it gave me no buzz and made me feel like a junkie?
So today I’m taking more than prescribed.... 3-4 times more than prescribed. Instead of trying to figure out what I did wrong to NOT get high, I’m focusing on the fact that I took 90mg of oxy on an empty stomach and only got to feel like a loser. A few days like this and starting a taper plan will be a lot easier (I hope )

 

[Squeaky]

I almost forgot. My Dr increased my prescription this month by 10 pills. It sounds like a drop in the bucket when I was already getting 90 pills. But it will help tremendously if my self-punishment plan actually works.
Say a prayer for me..... I’m going to need it.

 

[Squeaky]

And here I am AGAIN. 10 days into my latest script and I am down to three pills. Those will be gone this afternoon or tomorrow morning for sure. Yesterday I took a total of 300mg oxy and felt absolutely nothing. The scary part is I actually took 120mg at one time and felt absolutely nothing.
This is way out of control now. No pain relief, no “happy” side effects. Constipated beyond belief. And withdrawals every month.
If I don’t make a change I’m in a lot of trouble.

 

[Squeaky]

And here I am AGAIN. 10 days into my latest script and I am down to three pills. Those will be gone this afternoon or tomorrow morning for sure. Yesterday I took a total of 300mg oxy and felt absolutely nothing. The scary part is I actually took 120mg at one time and felt absolutely nothing.
This is way out of control now. No pain relief, no “happy” side effects. Constipated beyond belief. And withdrawals every month.
If I don’t make a change I’m in a lot of trouble.

Edit.... I’ve been in trouble for a long time now. It’s just becoming more obvious to me now.

 

[EPL1]

@Squeaky

For what it's worth, I am here for you anytime. I read everything you write, I always have.

It's been a very bad year for me, it's why I haven't been on a lot, I would like to chat with you about a few things, but I see you don't have the pm option. Is there a way I could send you a message?

Take care my friend.

Ash.

 

[Squeaky]

I mostly post here as a sort of public diary. I figure my experience might help someone else, and maybe saying it out loud (on the Internet) might help me realize something important. And if I can give someone a bit of real advice, then I always try to help.
I guess I’m not the PM kind of person.

 

[Squeaky]

6 days since I ran out, and about 12 until I get a refill. I have been having some legitimate painful back spasms for the last two days. I’m kicking myself for not being smarter with my pills. One pill gets my pain from a 9 to a 7. But going from a 3 to a 2 means I’m using 3 pills at a time and that only lasts for an hour or two.
It really sucks but I think I’m going to have to deal with either becoming a vegetable or living in pain so that I can have my medication when I REALLY need it.

 

[Squeaky]

And today I’m hungover.
Today is Sunday. This morning I woke up in my bed about two hours past my normal weekday wake-up time. I did not remember anything from the whole night in bed. Didn’t get up to go to the bathroom at 2am. Didn’t wake up to the neighbor’s barking dog at 4am. And it seems I found a spot in my mattress that not only let me fall asleep, but it also didn’t twist my back into a position that made me hurt and wake up 5 times during the night as is usual.
If there were some way to make that happen without the hangover I would happily cut off......

I’m guessing this means I’ll always be addicted to something. Life hurts and I’m so burned out from it hurting me that I will do anything to make it stop regardless of the consequences.

 

[EPL1]

I’m guessing this means I’ll always be addicted to something. Life hurts and I’m so burned out from it hurting me that I will do anything to make it stop regardless of the consequences.

Hi @Squeaky

Nothing much to say, nothing witty or helpful really, just wanted to say that I really get where you're coming from. I too am always going to be in pain and I accept that, but I get that we have to do whatever it takes to make the pain go away. From one chronic pain patient to another, I hear you.

Here for you,
Ash.

 

[deficiT]

I've got 16mg of Suboxone left. Planning on taking them in 4 doses, on the 8th, 10th, 12th, and the 14th. And after that I will be off Suboxone.

It's kind of sad because I didn't necessarily think I was ready to get off of subs yet, but I lost my insurance so I'm just doing what I can to make it easier on myself. It's only been a few months I've been on them luckily, so I'm hoping it shouldn't be too big of a deal when I run out.

 

[Squeaky]

I've got 16mg of Suboxone left. Planning on taking them in 4 doses, on the 8th, 10th, 12th, and the 14th. And after that I will be off Suboxone.

It's kind of sad because I didn't necessarily think I was ready to get off of subs yet, but I lost my insurance so I'm just doing what I can to make it easier on myself. It's only been a few months I've been on them luckily, so I'm hoping it shouldn't be too big of a deal when I run out.

I hope I’m wrong but I think it’s going to suck when you run out. Suboxone is a long acting opiate, but it is an opiate. Most people quitting anything in that category even after a week will experience some withdrawals. Being on it for a few months likely means you’re physically dependent and you will have to deal with some pretty uncomfortable withdrawals.
Your quick tapering plan sounds solid based on what you have to work with but get ready for a little bit of hell. I did something similar to quit oxy (from about 20mg per day) and my life really sucked for about a week. Subs have such a long half-life though. All I can say is that I hope I’m wrong.
Good luck and God bless.