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Opioids The Kratom (Mega)Thread v2

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NeighborhoodThreat

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Edit-This is the thread for collected experiences and discussions related to kratom. This thread should be used to answer any and all questions about the use of kratom as a medicine/ drug.


Some Links (FYI/Further Reading)

Kratom (mitragyna speciosa) - Wikipedia
Erowid Kratom Vault [Experiences]

Common kratom alkaloids (tags for image size only):


[edit- Pega] I'd like to hear more about other people's experiences with using kratom to come off opiates. I have had such a positive time, as have others, and I'd just like to hear more from people who have tried it about their experiences, to hopefully gain some insight on how common kratom usage for this purpose is and how common "glowing" responses are... Also good would be really any comments or tips for people using or thinking of using kratom to come off of opiates.

Link to v1

The Pegasus Guide to Using Kratom to Quit Buprenorphine

I have used kratom for various lengths after jumping off bupe... I have done this jump several times!

I recommend tapering down to 0.5mg sublingually/ 0.2mg snorted, etc. at least, before switching over to kratom. The reason is that even this small dose of bupe equals a relatively large dose of other, full agonist opioids, for example, heroin, oxycodone, or kratom.

Once you're down to this dose and take your final dose of bupe, I find the withdrawal to last 2-3 weeks, so this is about how long I'd plan on doing kratom for. You can use it a bit longer if you are still having cravings for an energy boost or whatever, since after 2-3 weeks you will be no longer dependent on bupe, and have little to no dependence on kratom. You can kind of use as needed after about 2 weeks or so, IMO. Be careful of using too frequently after the crucial period has passed, as kratom addiction will occur if you abuse it.

Initially, you'll want to wait to feel withdrawal and probably start with two to three daily doses of around 7 grams. Aim for two, do three in a day if it feels necessary. Doing this for ~7-10 days should for the most part get you through the peak period of the withdrawal. As you start to feel that the bupe withdrawal is waning around this time, start cutting back your dose, by frequency and by amount per dose.

Eventually, you can move down to one and zero doses per day, and the pace for this is really dependent on how you feel. I'd try to hop down as quickly as possible to prevent any strong dependence to kratom. In my experiences and many experiences collected from others, addiction to kratom is relatively slow-building and you should be able to get through this withdrawal period without any significant dependence occurring. It certainly can occur though; be wary of this. Use kratom as needed and you should avoid addiction; abuse it and you will likely encounter dependence.

One of the biggest benefits to doing a kratom regimen is that it will give you energy through the withdrawal. This is beneficial not only to you feeling well during the withdrawal period, but also after the withdrawal period as you never experience the full, debilitating effect of withdrawal on motivation. People who experience this horrible drain of energy and motivation often find it hard to "start back up" to demanding tasks, as the drain lingers. By taking the kratom, your "drained" feeling will never fully develop and so getting back energy is not as big of a concern as there was never a huge loss of it to begin with.

Alright, I think I have covered all the main points that needed to be addressed. I'm sure there are questions, so feel free to ask!


Here's the last few posts from v1:

Lol same here man. The only time the staff at the rehab knew what it was is after they searched someones room they found a spice looking bag of kratom in capsules. The bag was empty. It was captain kratom if i remember. Ive taken that kind and irs pretty good. Usually i'll dump out the kratom on a square of toilet paper and parachute it. It works well for withdraws.
After like two weeks of nenging on the stuff i started to feel wd's so i swapped to h, and now i'm on methadone. I still have about 6 capsules of kratom left and 2 somas. Just incase for some reason i need to detox myself. I know it wouldnt be the best way to dtox but its all i got atm. Its good to know that i have some on the sidr.
Kratom seems to compliment other opiates as well. I took my usual 6-8 g dose, then ingested 25 mg of hydrocodone. I feel absolutely fantastic. It makes my dwindling amount of opiates go a long way.
I can tell you one thing.
DON'T take benadryl to potentiate Kratom.
I was hoping for a peaceful sleep by mixing the two, similar to a normal opiate and benadryl, but instead experienced restlessness, anxiety, insomnia, etc.
Other than that Kratom was pretty nice. That was unfortunately the last time I tried it though :/
 
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highhooked

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" I feel bad for those who have never been addicte
I love kratom with all my heart. Does anyone notice a difference in effects when consuming the powder vs the crushed leaf? The only difference i have read is the powder is just more quickly absorbes and easier to consume.

But is there anh difference in potency do you think? The brand of kratom i like i can get about ten dollars cheaper if i get the crushed leaf so thats why im curious.
 

Oxide

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I don't think there would be much of a difference in total potency between crushed and powdered leaf, and you can always grind it yourself. In reality it would really come down to how well it was stored, etc.
 

higherconciousness

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^Yup, usually crushed leaf is cheaper than the powdered. I have yet to notice a difference in potency between the two, so if you have a coffee grinder I'd say save some money and go with the crushed. I actually just consumed 8 g of crushed bali and it feels as if I had the micronized Kratom.
 

Wolfmans_BrothEr

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I can't agree more with everything neighborhood threat stated, especially the part about your mood going up and down throughout the day, kinda wish there was something I could do about that. the only thing I'll add is that I've found myself eating less throughout the day to keep my stomach empty for when I dose (usually every 4 hours, 3x/day)

I've heard about people switching strains to keep their tolerance low and I think it's plausible, especially if you can find a few different types you like. Ive been switching through UEI Bali, Thai, and some other extracts like gold reserve and a black powder, but extracts get expensive

Other than the few things I mention, which aren't that difficult to cope with, I love the plant. I wish I had found it much sooner since before it I endured so much unnecessary pain. I reccomend it to anyone wanting to get off opiates, I hope it never becomes illegal
 

humblegro

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How much 8% mitragynine powder should I mix with my deep jungle indo and premium bali kratom powders? I want a stout mix ratio. Thanks.
 

rowanbid

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The 8% extract at half a gram is good mixed with plain leaf, mixing with Plain leaf is a must as it doesnt do much on its own, it also depends on your burn amounts to figure out what you should be burning, tolerance also plays a factor and when your session is, first thing in the am when you wake up on a empty stomach being the best possible aroma you will get for the day!!

I can't agree more with everything neighborhood threat stated, especially the part about your mood going up and down throughout the day, kinda wish there was something I could do about that. the only thing I'll add is that I've found myself eating less throughout the day to keep my stomach empty for when I dose (usually every 4 hours, 3x/day)

I've heard about people switching strains to keep their tolerance low and I think it's plausible, especially if you can find a few different types you like. Ive been switching through UEI Bali, Thai, and some other extracts like gold reserve and a black powder, but extracts get expensive

Other than the few things I mention, which aren't that difficult to cope with, I love the plant. I wish I had found it much sooner since before it I endured so much unnecessary pain. I reccomend it to anyone wanting to get off opiates, I hope it never becomes illegal
Hey switching strains doesn't neccesarily lower tolerance but the different alkaloid content keeps your receptors guessing, for a tolerance drop try stem and vein material which has much more antagonists than agonists so tolerance drops really low after burning S and V for a week or so, you get a slight unique aroma from S and V material but not really compared to plain leaf, its worth it though because its pretty much the equivelant of taking a break but without any WD, that is if you are a daily burner with some dependency, but yeah give s and v a try for that!!
 
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Fresco

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I figured out a new way to beat kratom tolerance, you simply take half the dosage that you usually take for 2 to 3 days, and on day 3 or 4 your tolerance is back to where you started.
So lets say you normally take 3 grams per dose, you simply take 1 to 1.5 grams instead.

Works very well
 

muskolo

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Serious question...has anyone ever noticed a strange smell in their nose when taking a break from Kratom? I usually take it for a week, take 3-5 days off and then back again. I know it's not withdrawal, because I don't have any symptoms at all, but every time I take that break I get this odd smell that is just bizarre. So, has anyone had this experience?
 

tkarr

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I've been using kratom over the last couple of weeks. I'm quitting an addiction, my average use around 80mg oxy/day or equivalent, I've done a bit of a taper, but pretty rapidly, basically dropping about 10mg per day and now I'm going away from it. I've been using a few years.

So my thoughts on it so far, I've got a whole bunch of different types here, I bought a variety pack, all finely ground leaf. I've been using the same dosage every time so far, about a level tablespoon - which according to some sites is probably about 8-9 grams. My results have varied.

Tonight, I was feeling pretty bad after work, sore, restless, and just absolutely exhausted, I took a tablespoon of kratom at 9:00 tonight - was kind of disappointed, but now, it's about 11:00, a couple hours later, and I don't really feel buzzed or anything, but definitely I feel a bit of a boost from it, removing some symptoms. Before I felt like I couldn't even focus my eyes and wanted to go to sleep, but now I can sit back in a chair surfing the web and actually feel reasonably content. Promising.

I'm planning to start taking it more now that I'm completely off all opiates, to fight withdrawal, I've read about kratom withdrawals, but if I have to deal with that later, shit I'll deal with it and taper down, whatever I need to do.

Just one question, maybe someone could have some advice - as a person with the sort of tolerance one would have built up from taking approx. 80mg of oxy basically every day for a few years - is a tablespoon of powdered kratom leaf - so about 8-9 grams - a good dose to work with or am I going too light? I've been reluctant to up it, reading about side effects, but I've experienced nothing in the way of stomach discomfort or after effects, nothing really. I've just been ripping toilet paper so I have just a single ply of it, wrapping the kratom in it, and then just shoving it in my mouth and taking a big gulp of juice or water etc. it seems to work just fine.

That's been the main thing I've noticed though, when taking opiates like oxycodone, you start feeling it within like 5 minutes after taking the pills, vs. kratom - I find I notice almost nothing for at least an hour, and like tonight two. It's provided a bit of relaxation, and is helping combat withdrawal symptoms right now. But I haven't noticed anything at all that I'd describe as euphoric or even like a mild opiate buzz. Just sort of a smooth, calm feeling.

Anyhow, I hope it continues to help as these next few days are going to be key.
 

qwe

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Edit-This is the thread for collected experiences and discussions related to kratom. This thread should be used to answer any and all questions about the use of kratom as a medicine/ drug.


I am in the process of breaking a 3 year long various opiate habit that has gone up and down, but has always been with me. It has ranged from 2 80 mg oxys a day, down to only one or two percs/vics, then back up to more oxys, or a large amount of pods. I have never quit for more than a week. WIthdrawing from the pods was a huge reality check- it sucked. It is time to prioritize my life, and get back on track (or at least make a better atempt this time).

I am trying to use Kratom for this. I will taper the best way I know how. It has actually been effective for keeping me four days clean, but then I ran out yesterday before my next order and couldnt stand the lethargy and anxiety ( I have a horrendously hard physical labor job- not withdrawal freindly), so I took some oxycodone.
I know nothing of the pharmacology of Kratom, but it seems like it is missing something that other opiates have- and I mean that in a good way. After using the Kratom for four days, I started getting that "gitty" feeling back that I have longed for so long. It is almost like certain senses that I forgot I had were turned back on despite the Kratom. It almost felt like I was clean for months. I felt like testosterone was once again coursing through my veins, my sex drive was way up, my eyes became clearer, I was no longer pale looking, and I had great feelings of emotions that I hadn't had in a long time. I was content just blasting my music, exercising, and smoking ciggarettes. The only problem was that these feelings came and went throughout the course of the day.
Then I ran out of Krat and took some Oxy. The oxy of course made me feel good, but afterwards, I felt like I was all the way back to square one. The next day I didn't have any of the "giddy" feeling like I had the first four days, I was once again pale, and I was extremely lethargic and anxious. I was extremely dissapointed and I can't wait till I get my Kratom Fed-Exed tommorow.

Anyhow, the point being is that I have to ask if anyone else has had similiar feeling while quitting the opiates with Kratom? I have tried to taper with other weaker opiates in the past, but just felt like I was miserable the whole time then ended up relapsing. WIth the Kratom it seems like there is something different. I feel like I am a month clean after just a few days (yeah I know there will also be problems when it comes time to quit the Krat- but I can deal with that). I feel much more balanced, I have amplified emotions (the good kind), and I almost feel like a kid again. Maybe it is something to do with the Kratom's interaction with seretonin levels?
Anyhow I feel it is possible to utilize this wonderful plant for curbing the depression and lethargy that goes along with opiate withdrawal. I haven't been successful yet in quitting, but I wont stop trying.

[edit- Pega] I'd like to hear more about other people's experiences with using kratom to come off opiates. I have had such a positive time, as have others, and I'd just like to hear more from people who have tried it about their experiences, to hopefully gain some insight on how common kratom usage for this purpose is and how common "glowing" responses are... Also good would be really any comments or tips for people using or thinking of using kratom to come off of opiates.

Link to v1
i think it's mainly from reducing your dose. once systems in your brain that rely on equilibrium opioid signalling have had time to fully fail, the side effects of the dose reduction will probably outweigh the positive effects, but done carefully it can be quite euphoric to slide down from a CNS depressant, for a time that is.

this is why i believe "addict"ed people can manage with a long term taper, with the medication under their control, given rational dialog and trust... we know when we are headed towards happiness, it's our bodies...

so i'm glad kratom is basically available like a beer at headshops ;) (even if it tastes worse) i try to keep it to once a month, because it can screw with PAWs.
 

muskolo

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I've been using kratom over the last couple of weeks. I'm quitting an addiction, my average use around 80mg oxy/day or equivalent, I've done a bit of a taper, but pretty rapidly, basically dropping about 10mg per day and now I'm going away from it. I've been using a few years.

So my thoughts on it so far, I've got a whole bunch of different types here, I bought a variety pack, all finely ground leaf. I've been using the same dosage every time so far, about a level tablespoon - which according to some sites is probably about 8-9 grams. My results have varied.

Tonight, I was feeling pretty bad after work, sore, restless, and just absolutely exhausted, I took a tablespoon of kratom at 9:00 tonight - was kind of disappointed, but now, it's about 11:00, a couple hours later, and I don't really feel buzzed or anything, but definitely I feel a bit of a boost from it, removing some symptoms. Before I felt like I couldn't even focus my eyes and wanted to go to sleep, but now I can sit back in a chair surfing the web and actually feel reasonably content. Promising.

I'm planning to start taking it more now that I'm completely off all opiates, to fight withdrawal, I've read about kratom withdrawals, but if I have to deal with that later, shit I'll deal with it and taper down, whatever I need to do.

Just one question, maybe someone could have some advice - as a person with the sort of tolerance one would have built up from taking approx. 80mg of oxy basically every day for a few years - is a tablespoon of powdered kratom leaf - so about 8-9 grams - a good dose to work with or am I going too light? I've been reluctant to up it, reading about side effects, but I've experienced nothing in the way of stomach discomfort or after effects, nothing really. I've just been ripping toilet paper so I have just a single ply of it, wrapping the kratom in it, and then just shoving it in my mouth and taking a big gulp of juice or water etc. it seems to work just fine.

That's been the main thing I've noticed though, when taking opiates like oxycodone, you start feeling it within like 5 minutes after taking the pills, vs. kratom - I find I notice almost nothing for at least an hour, and like tonight two. It's provided a bit of relaxation, and is helping combat withdrawal symptoms right now. But I haven't noticed anything at all that I'd describe as euphoric or even like a mild opiate buzz. Just sort of a smooth, calm feeling.

Anyhow, I hope it continues to help as these next few days are going to be key.
Frankly, I'm surprised you're feeling any relief at all...Kratom is very weak but I'm very happy to hear it is somewhat working for you. It worked wonderfully for me when I w/d from suboxone nearly a year ago. My advice, take it three times a day at the same dosage you have been and gradually move down over the next 2 weeks. You should notice more relief as the w/d from the oxy dissipates. Move down to once a day and start slashing your dosage so your body will adjust kindly. Also, taking it on an empty stomach will provide quicker and stronger results; at least in my experience. As I said though, be thankful that is providing even a little relief, 10mg's of oxy is a tremendous amount when compared to kratom.

Don't worry too much about the kratom w/d...it's mostly anxiety and headaches; but just to be safe, jump at a low dose. Please take into account that you're going to experience those symptoms anyway as a few years is a long time to habitually use opiates and your brain needs to readjust. Kratom will certainly aid you and get you through what would otherwise be a pretty miserable week or two. Best of luck to you!

Edit: Are you taking powder, extract, or crushed leaf?
 
Last edited:

tkarr

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Frankly, I'm surprised you're feeling any relief at all...Kratom is very weak but I'm very happy to hear it is somewhat working for you. It worked wonderfully for me when I w/d from suboxone nearly a year ago. My advice, take it three times a day at the same dosage you have been and gradually move down over the next 2 weeks. You should notice more relief as the w/d from the oxy dissipates. Move down to once a day and start slashing your dosage so your body will adjust kindly. Also, taking it on an empty stomach will provide quicker and stronger results; at least in my experience. As I said though, be thankful that is providing even a little relief, 10mg's of oxy is a tremendous amount when compared to kratom.

Don't worry too much about the kratom w/d...it's mostly anxiety and headaches; but just to be safe, jump at a low dose. Please take into account that you're going to experience those symptoms anyway as a few years is a long time to habitually use opiates and your brain needs to readjust. Kratom will certainly aid you and get you through what would otherwise be a pretty miserable week or two. Best of luck to you!

Edit: Are you taking powder, extract, or crushed leaf?
I'm taking powdered leaf. I took your advice I've been doing about 10 grams 3x per day. It's been about a few days now.. And I'm sure it's helping lots.

Symptoms are still there though for sure - I just can't sit without squirming around, it's impossible to get comfortable - especially in a sitting position, lying down is better but still there. My muscles are all sore, it's actually very, very similar to the type of soreness after a hard workout lifting weights, almost exactly actually. I'm ok during the day but around 5-6 in the evening I just hit the wall, totally exhausted, I've been going to bed at like 6:30, 7:00. And I find temperature is all wild, one second I'm overheating, the next I get some major chills. I've been waking up like 4 times a night, but it's not been that bad, I've been asleep enough of those 11 hours I'm in my bed for it to be decent rest. I'm up late tonight though, feeling a bit bored and just fought the tiredness.

It's bearable though.. I kind of just chilled most of the weekend, but I went to work today.. I have an office job so nothing physical, and I'm able to kind of dog it a bit no big deal, nobody watching me. I'd read a lot about exercise, I forced myself to go to the rec centre Saturday and Sunday, very light workouts - mostly the hot tub is the best part, feels very good. Didn't go tonight but will tommorow.

The Kratom seems to just smooth things out a fair bit, makes me feel a little more relaxed and reduces the withdrawal symptoms overall. I'd say the times I feel the withdrawals the worst is when I first wake up in the morning, head is pounding, just crawling out of bed is almost undoable, but I take the Kratom, and it takes about an hour to start taking effect but then I feel way more functional.

My mental state is good, I've gotten really frustrated with my habit, hasn't done a thing for me in a year. I'd use and feel like a mild, mild buzz for half an hour and that's it, waste of time. vs. in early times, 3 percocets and you're swimming in euphoria for 4 hours lol my goodness how it changes. I neglected life, social life, health and I was super depressed. But I feel a sense of accomplishment and really optimistic actually, so I don't feel a bit of depression right now to be honest.

But if I had to sum up the effects of the Kratom, it leads to a calmness, there are times when I do notice what I'd consider like a very subtle and mild body buzz like you'd get from opiates, but I mean, subtle. In past attempts kicking I've had bad headaches and I think it's helping with that for sure, I feel it in the morning when I first wake up but after taking Kratom that seems to fade away.

Physically I feel really weak but I'm able to function decent enough to get by. I think the Kratom has kind of leveled things out a bit, I mean I've been feeling withdrawals since I started tapering, but really though it has somewhat, I have not noticed a major spike in those symptoms since I went right off completely. I was worried once getting to zero it would just blast me away. But it hasn't.

I think the plan now is to keep on this dose of Kratom until withdrawals dip way down. - here's a question maybe - is there much risk to this, using 30g of Kratom per day for a while, I mean if it's a couple weeks or maybe a month even? And then after that I'll taper off it, I'll buy a kitchen scale and take a month, reduce by 1 gram per day. Something like that.

Thanks for the advice.
 

Kratomcody

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Hey guys,

I am on subutex. I am about 1.4 mg. will kratom help with wd? If so how long should I be on kratom until I jump off that? My goal is to get off it all. I am thinking kratom will be easier to wd from? Will it? Anyone have any advice on a good plan to go from sub to kratom to drive free?
 

muskolo

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I'm taking powdered leaf. I took your advice I've been doing about 10 grams 3x per day. It's been about a few days now.. And I'm sure it's helping lots.

Symptoms are still there though for sure - I just can't sit without squirming around, it's impossible to get comfortable - especially in a sitting position, lying down is better but still there. My muscles are all sore, it's actually very, very similar to the type of soreness after a hard workout lifting weights, almost exactly actually. I'm ok during the day but around 5-6 in the evening I just hit the wall, totally exhausted, I've been going to bed at like 6:30, 7:00. And I find temperature is all wild, one second I'm overheating, the next I get some major chills. I've been waking up like 4 times a night, but it's not been that bad, I've been asleep enough of those 11 hours I'm in my bed for it to be decent rest. I'm up late tonight though, feeling a bit bored and just fought the tiredness.

It's bearable though.. I kind of just chilled most of the weekend, but I went to work today.. I have an office job so nothing physical, and I'm able to kind of dog it a bit no big deal, nobody watching me. I'd read a lot about exercise, I forced myself to go to the rec centre Saturday and Sunday, very light workouts - mostly the hot tub is the best part, feels very good. Didn't go tonight but will tommorow.

The Kratom seems to just smooth things out a fair bit, makes me feel a little more relaxed and reduces the withdrawal symptoms overall. I'd say the times I feel the withdrawals the worst is when I first wake up in the morning, head is pounding, just crawling out of bed is almost undoable, but I take the Kratom, and it takes about an hour to start taking effect but then I feel way more functional.

My mental state is good, I've gotten really frustrated with my habit, hasn't done a thing for me in a year. I'd use and feel like a mild, mild buzz for half an hour and that's it, waste of time. vs. in early times, 3 percocets and you're swimming in euphoria for 4 hours lol my goodness how it changes. I neglected life, social life, health and I was super depressed. But I feel a sense of accomplishment and really optimistic actually, so I don't feel a bit of depression right now to be honest.

But if I had to sum up the effects of the Kratom, it leads to a calmness, there are times when I do notice what I'd consider like a very subtle and mild body buzz like you'd get from opiates, but I mean, subtle. In past attempts kicking I've had bad headaches and I think it's helping with that for sure, I feel it in the morning when I first wake up but after taking Kratom that seems to fade away.

Physically I feel really weak but I'm able to function decent enough to get by. I think the Kratom has kind of leveled things out a bit, I mean I've been feeling withdrawals since I started tapering, but really though it has somewhat, I have not noticed a major spike in those symptoms since I went right off completely. I was worried once getting to zero it would just blast me away. But it hasn't.

I think the plan now is to keep on this dose of Kratom until withdrawals dip way down. - here's a question maybe - is there much risk to this, using 30g of Kratom per day for a while, I mean if it's a couple weeks or maybe a month even? And then after that I'll taper off it, I'll buy a kitchen scale and take a month, reduce by 1 gram per day. Something like that.

Thanks for the advice.
I'm glad to hear that you are noticing a subsiding of w/d symptoms from the oxy. When I kicked sub with kratom, I took about that amount for about a month and tapered down to once a day, maybe 5 grams and then stopped using kratom. Sub w/d is at least a month no matter what. At least in MY experience, I had no problems aside from PAWS when I stopped the kratom dosages. As I said, that was after well over a month. It sounds like you're doing pretty good. I'd say that once you get to week 2, start tapering down. Always listen to your body, though, it's the best way to regulate what you are doing.
 

Stan the man

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I found a website selling 50:1 capsules (meaning 1 gram of extract is equal to 50 grams of leaf, I think). For a first time user, would one of these capsules be too much?
 

born99

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Kratom has saved me from WD's many a time. Its taste is the only negative. I would put the powder Krat in "Fill yourself" capsuels. Biggest I could handle. 12 of those twice a day, keep the WD's at bay.
 
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