• 🇳🇿 🇲🇲 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇦🇺 🇦🇶 🇮🇳
    Australian & Asian
    Drug Discussion


    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • AADD Moderators: andyturbo | JessFR
  • Bluelight HOT THREADS
  • Let's Welcome Our NEW MEMBERS!

(Western Australia) The ideology of pain killers: cruel, ignorant, mora

MrsGamp

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
527
Location
Australia
Things are going mad here, IMO.
Firstly, all OTC codeine was banned.
Now, all prescription pain meds have been restricted to use by people with terminal illnesses and people suffering acute transient pain, such as post-surgical.
Recently my brother had very painful surgery. The surgeon had written him up for OxyContin for post-surgical pain.
But the PollyAnna doctor on duty, who looked about 17, crossed out her senior colleague's treatment plan and informed my brother that for pain relief he was to be sent home with ... Vitamin C.

So he had to go to his GP in order to get appropriate pain relief. She prescribed 30 mg codeine tabs - fair enough - but when I got this script filled I was told that recently the government has decreed that Panadeine Forte is no longer covered by Medicare and that the "private" pricing has been increased.

They used to cost $6.80.
Now they cost about $45.

This is ideology. Also it's cruel. Also it's stupid and ignorant

Vitamin C for post-surgical pain?

Anyone had a similar experience either in Australia or elsewhere?
 

JessFR

Sr. Moderator: AADD, H&R
Staff member
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
8,592
Fortunately I don't have any chronic pain problems (well, not unless you count psychological pain), so I don't have much first hand experience.

But yes I'm hearing this everywhere. It's truly disgusting that we have the ability to treat pain and choose not too. It's completely fucked.

What's weird though is being told that panadeine forte isn't covered by the PBS.

Because it is.

And the usage you describe seems within the rules listed for its subsidy.

The script could be written as private only, but that doesn't make sense, and that's not what your friend was apparently told.

I dunno what to tell you. But I won't bullshit you. If I actually had real legit physical pain and got fucked around by the broken system, I'd probably just go get back on heroin.

Please know that I am not advising anyone to do that, I'm just saying that I know that it's what I would be likely to do and it just emphasizes how stupid this system is.

While I haven't experienced this specific problem, I've experienced similar ones with doctors and pharmacists bullshitting me. All the time. It's infuriating.

They're fucking cowards. Refusing to act like doctors or pharmacists and instead acting like cowardly robots.
 

MrsGamp

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
527
Location
Australia
Fortunately I don't have any chronic pain problems (well, not unless you count psychological pain), so I don't have much first hand experience.

But yes I'm hearing this everywhere. It's truly disgusting that we have the ability to treat pain and choose not too. It's completely fucked.

What's weird though is being told that panadeine forte isn't covered by the PBS.

Because it is.

And the usage you describe seems within the rules listed for its subsidy.

The script could be written as private only, but that doesn't make sense, and that's not what your friend was apparently told.

I dunno what to tell you. But I won't bullshit you. If I actually had real legit physical pain and got fucked around by the broken system, I'd probably just go get back on heroin.

Please know that I am not advising anyone to do that, I'm just saying that I know that it's what I would be likely to do and it just emphasizes how stupid this system is.

While I haven't experienced this specific problem, I've experienced similar ones with doctors and pharmacists bullshitting me. All the time. It's infuriating.

They're fucking cowards. Refusing to act like doctors or pharmacists and instead acting like cowardly robots.
Its only covered by PBS if you are just getting 20, it seems.
Repeats for Panadeine now require "authority" (doctor making phone call).
My brother was prescribed 50 which is a weird quantity that our GP likes to do, and has never been PBS covered (ie you always paid the "private" price), but seriously, this private price has been at least doubled and pharmacist said it was connected with new Australian regulations.
Tramadol too has been impacted. I use it for chronic pain from knee injury. Now I can no longer get fast release Tramadol with repeats. I can get slow release Tramadol with repeats.
Slow release Tramadol is a total waste of time in my experience.
Re you saying you'd go back to smack if you had bad pain...in all honesty, lately my pain from my destroyed knee has been awful because it's so hard to get effective pain relief-and I've actually been using alcohol as a pain killer. If I'm gonna need to do a lot of walk (no car) I skull a few wines before setting out because otherwise it can be intolerable.
No doubt the AA crowd would say this is just an excuse...but that's a moot point: the last thing I need is another reason to drink, but I've certainly got one. If OTC Panadeine or Nurofen Plus were still available my pain could be handled.

Also the absurd proffering of Panadol as the panacea for all pain problems, even really serious pain problems ...paracetamol, not codeine, should be taken off the market IMO. Many people die every year from accidental paracetamol overdoses - a horrible slow death by liver failure. It is a poison which does nothing except bring fevers down. Or at least that s all it does for me. Dr says: take it regularly every 6 hours and it will work...well it doesn't, and I'm not keen on taking that much paracetamol every day!
 

JessFR

Sr. Moderator: AADD, H&R
Staff member
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
8,592
No doubt the AA crowd would say this is just an excuse...but that's a moot point:
Maybe it is, but you only live once and personally I would refuse to live in pain just to satisfy a corrupt/incompetent and immoral system.

The horrible failure of our medical system is that it repeatedly prioritizes living over quality of life.

As well as seeing dependence as an unacceptable health problem whole again chronic pain doesn't matter.

It's all bullshit.

EDIT: all this said. While I generally think people are morally entitled to do what they must to not live in constant suffering.

It's not an unreasonable concern that someone who has temporary pain from a surgery could wind up with a more serious long term problem is inappropriately medicated with opioids.

There's certainly a lot of people who have wound up opioid dependent as a result of being given opioids for temporary pain. But our "solution" of just not giving people opioids at all is a very poor solution.

I don't want it to come across like I'm encouraging people to just get illegal opioids for their pain in any circumstance, just that if you're an adult I think it's reasonable and sometimes justified to prioritize your health over a bad system.
 
Last edited:

Coffeeshroom

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
1,621
Location
sunny South Africa
all i can comment on is the price increase at pharmacies here by me too. i use to pay R90 for 30 tabs of 1mg alzam. now its R140 for the same supply. so i feel you on the ridiculous price increase on pharms
 

JessFR

Sr. Moderator: AADD, H&R
Staff member
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
8,592
Lol, converting South African Rands to Australian dollars, that means you're still paying a fair bit less than people here.

But this is Australia, the most expensive country in the world.
 

Flower Fairy

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
1,342
paracetamol, not codeine, should be taken off the market IMO. Many people die every year from accidental paracetamol overdoses - a horrible slow death by liver failure

Maybe thats why they stopped co codamol and nurofen+ being sold OTC as to many people addicted not doing CWE on the pills

Do you think that will happen in the UK, its quite strict here, if you go back for another packet and they recognise you they say they're not selling you anymore
 

JessFR

Sr. Moderator: AADD, H&R
Staff member
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
8,592
Maybe thats why they stopped co codamol and nurofen+ being sold OTC as to many people addicted not doing CWE on the pills

Do you think that will happen in the UK, its quite strict here, if you go back for another packet and they recognise you they say they're not selling you anymore
Crazy idea, maybe they should have just sold people the codeine, without the paracetamol? :p
 

Flower Fairy

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
1,342
If it works for you yeah, it does nothing fury pain, but they can't ad it's addictive, it's bad where you are though, even more strict than the UK
 

MrsGamp

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
527
Location
Australia
Maybe it is, but you only live once and personally I would refuse to live in pain just to satisfy a corrupt/incompetent and immoral system.

The horrible failure of our medical system is that it repeatedly prioritizes living over quality of life.

As well as seeing dependence as an unacceptable health problem whole again chronic pain doesn't matter.

It's all bullshit.

EDIT: all this said. While I generally think people are morally entitled to do what they must to not live in constant suffering.

It's not an unreasonable concern that someone who has temporary pain from a surgery could wind up with a more serious long term problem is inappropriately medicated with opioids.

There's certainly a lot of people who have wound up opioid dependent as a result of being given opioids for temporary pain. But our "solution" of just not giving people opioids at all is a very poor solution.

I don't want it to come across like I'm encouraging people to just get illegal opioids for their pain in any circumstance, just that if you're an adult I think it's reasonable and sometimes justified to prioritize your health over a bad system.
How can you "prioritise your health over a bad system" except by going off to the drug dealer?
Eg in an unrelated incident I am freaking out right now because I have mislaid my Valium. I don't abuse it: only 1-2 tabs per day. But my GP will tell me to fuck off, and probably any other GP I approach. I've had seizures on 2 occasions from diazepam withdrawal imposed by various zealous doctors whose spiel, decoded, means:

"I'm a perfect professional person with a successful life and you're despicable pill popper who won't suck me in. Only junkies and bums have withdrawals and seizures. Because they're not nice people. If you were a nice person you wouldn't be in this position. And doctors shouldn't have to deal with people who arent nice."

Seriously, this is the mentality.
 

F.U.B.A.R.

Moderator: BDD, OD, LAVA
Staff member
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
17,090
Location
UK
Maybe thats why they stopped co codamol and nurofen+ being sold OTC as to many people addicted not doing CWE on the pills

Do you think that will happen in the UK, its quite strict here, if you go back for another packet and they recognise you they say they're not selling you anymore
Theres always another chemists 200 yards down the road.

But co-codamol and nurofen are still very much over the counter in the UK
 

MrsGamp

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
527
Location
Australia
Theres always another chemists 200 yards down the road.

But co-codamol and nurofen are still very much over the counter in the UK
There is no OTC codeine in Australia anymore AT ALL and (as I mentioned in my OP) they're now insisting codeine can only be prescribed for people with terminal illnesses.
I expect it's less than thrilling for people with terminal illnesses too. There's probably shiny young things standing at the end of the hospital bed saying "we don't like to prescribe strong opiates because of the risk of addiction. But here's a panadeine forte, and by the way your attitude sucks. You obviously had more than two standard drinks per day and you didn't eat your vegetables, and no you can't go outside for a cigarette. If you hadn't smoked you wouldn't be in a palliative care unit. Get out of bed, it's a lovely day, and you ought to make the most of it, since you've got about 8 weeks left before you die. Take a good look at yourself."
Exeunt (muttering "loser" - but anxious to get to the gym because Dr Shiny Perfect will NEVER die: he's going to look after himself and his Merc)
 

MrsGamp

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
527
Location
Australia
PS "open blind means happy mind".
Off-topic but had to share that this is what a doctor said to me because I preferred to have the blind down in my hospital room after having my leg broken and my
face smashed in by my ex partner.
Open blind means happy mind...
 

MrsGamp

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
527
Location
Australia
PS "open blind means happy mind".
Off-topic but had to share that this is what a doctor said to me because I preferred to have the blind down in my hospital room after having my leg broken and my
face smashed in by my ex partner.
Open blind means happy mind...
A real lifesaver, that idea.
 

TripSitterNZ

Bluelighter
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
1,866
Location
The Dimension of LSD-25
Had a lump cut out of my forehead and stitches they gave me paracetamol to take home i was in alot of fucking pain for a week and just had to smoke alot of weed to deal with it since i had no sources for opiates. This in New zealand.

My friend broke his ribs and still only got given ibuprofen. If you look remotely like a drug user here they will not give you opiates its fucked up.
 

MrsGamp

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
527
Location
Australia
It really is bad in NZ/Australia, I agree.

Actually when OTC codeine was taken away a couple of years ago, I recall doctors being concerned about people no longer being allowed to treat themselves for painful but normal issues like period pain or tension headaches - and GPs not having enough time to cope with really sick patients because of having to spend all their tIME writing pissy prescriptions for tiny amounts of codeine.

Well, it's now a couple of years down the track and the GPs appeared to have solved the dilemma by simply telling people they'll just have to put up with it.

Even in hospital you can't get codeine, usually. The fad right now is to treat post-operative pain with tiny doses of bupenorphine.
 

JessFR

Sr. Moderator: AADD, H&R
Staff member
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
8,592
It basically works like this.

We have a problem, that problem is people are dying from drugs the medical establishment, sanctioned by the government is providing them.

People dying looks bad politically so something must be done to solve the problem.

The solution, ensure that everyone dying from opioids is getting them illegally. That way those deaths are no longer blamed on doctors or the state and we can all relax.
 

TripSitterNZ

Bluelighter
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
1,866
Location
The Dimension of LSD-25
Honestly its get so bad people have had to resort to to having their own poppy farms for home bake morphine and opium to deal with chronic pain.

Street opiate prices for pharma pills is way to expensive but some people its their only relief from whatever physical or emotional pain they face. Unless you find a corrupt doctor who is willing to write you bullshit scripts they do exist out there but very rare to find one but i do know people who get monthly scripts of tramadol with no need for it.
 
Top