The government, and a totalitarian society in the making....

[Mr TIMO]

Hey fellas and ladies, i feel so strongly about this post that i put in another thread, so i wanted to put it in it's own thread and see what you all think about this kind of thing. (the original thread was just about LU doves that's all)
my thoughts get a bit clearer towards the end i think:


it seems like pills (online "legals") like these just use the most recent devopments in RC's imo. (which obviously sucks because not only is it dangerous by not disclosing the active ingrediants, but it's also putting those RC's right up there on the to do list for our governments "what shall we ban next" list.)
ultimately it will lead to analogue laws that are so vague and encapsulating that it will be virtually impossible to get high off of anything that doesn't create income for the government.... sad world.

from memroy from another thread, the queensland analogue/drug laws etc, are so vague that it is almost just illegal to take a drug that gets you high. i've mentioned before that i believe this is an amazingly huge violation of human rights/freedom. i mean it doesn't neccasarilly affect me a great deal (being from nsw), but i feel that bit by bit, we are losing more and more of our civil liberties and rights (same thing?). Laws just keep on being created that restrict personal freedom. it's like our world is turning into that totalitarian sort of society that you see in the movies like aeon flux, Equilibrium, V for vendetta etc....
Problem is that it is happening at such as slowish steady rate that you don't really realise how it's all happening right in front of our eyes.

i think the funniest thing in this world is that is illegal to down yourself.
like seriously, can you imagine doing time (or paying for it) after an unsuccessful suicide attempt? something not quite right there hey... (not sure if this is right, but i wouldn't be surprised if it is the case)
i have simillar feelings with how there are laws against self mutilation. i mean damn if someone wants a scar tissue tatoo, let them do it if that's what they want.

what was that movie a while ago? free Willie.

fuck that.

Free Will!

I think the "resistance" that you see in the terminator (and series etc), will some day actually become a reality.
but obviously the resistance will be against the government, not "computers". Though the simple logic used by governments legislation and policies (more so the legislation they like to advertise) these days doesn't really differ from the logic of your average basic computer program.... 200 people die each year from car crashes. ban cars and no-one will die in a car crash... problem solved eh. we stopped all road deaths, we are the best government ever.......................

sorry for the negativity, it's just something i feel VERY strongly about.

What are you're thoughts on this?

 

[hoptis]

ultimately it will lead to analogue laws that are so vague and encapsulating that it will be virtually impossible to get high off of anything that doesn't create income for the government.... sad world.

You mean it's impossible to buy illicit drugs? I'd hardly think so, especially in this day and age. All analogue laws will do is save government time and paperwork by covering any new substances that might get you high but aren't covered by existing laws. So new substances will be born into illegality, it won't stop people from trying to create them, though it may make distribution more difficult but many RC's that are banned are still readily available over the net.

PS. Suicide, or attempted suicide, is not a crime in Australia in all jurisdictions except the NT.

 

[skatkid]

suicide and self mutilation should be illegal as why shuld tax payer money pay for the hospital fees for the person who did damage to themselves.

and to say society is becoming more totalitarian is not true in all aspects. in other areas we are more liberal then ever for example sex and sexual expression.

 

[Mr Blonde]

suicide and self mutilation should be illegal as why shuld tax payer money pay for the hospital fees for the person who did damage to themselves.

On the same side of the coin, why should tax payers cover smokers who need treatment for lung cancer or emphysema? Problem drinkers who need dialysis and liver transplants? Drug users who OD? I could go on and on... basically, if you start to say that we shouldn't treat/pay for the treatment for people victim of one set of circumstances, it's a slippery slope to denying many others. Besides, with illegal drugs as a very good example, when has illegality ever put a stop to anything?

and to say society is becoming more totalitarian is not true in all aspects. in other areas we are more liberal then ever for example sex and sexual expression.

Agreed. Although we have some distance left to go with sexuality and even race still, to me illegal drugs is one of the last frontiers.

 

[skatkid]

On the same side of the coin, why should tax payers cover smokers who need treatment for lung cancer or emphysema? Problem drinkers who need dialysis and liver transplants? Drug users who OD? I could go on and on... basically, if you start to say that we shouldn't treat/pay for the treatment for people victim of one set of circumstances, it's a slippery slope to denying many others. Besides, with illegal drugs as a very good example, when has illegality ever put a stop to anything?

the difference there is that smokers dont smoke to kill themselves and drinkers dnt drink to damage their livers. with suicide and self mutilation the aim of both is to directly damage/kill oneself.

and i think self mutilation and suicide being illegal stems from the christian view on suicide and self mutilation being sinful

 

[Mr Blonde]

and i think self mutilation and suicide being illegal stems from the christian view on suicide and self mutilation being sinful

+1.

the difference there is that smokers dont smoke to kill themselves and drinkers dnt drink to damage their livers. with suicide and self mutilation the aim of both is to directly damage/kill oneself.

Yes, but usually the mental state of people who attempt suicide is not the greatest; should we thus not be offering assistance to people at their most vulnerable moments? Forcing someone who has attempted to kill themselves to pay their medical costs afterwards seems like it might just push them over enough to go through with it without fucking it up.

 

[skatkid]

+1.



Yes, but usually the mental state of people who attempt suicide is not the greatest; should we thus not be offering assistance to people at their most vulnerable moments? Forcing someone who has attempted to kill themselves to pay their medical costs afterwards seems like it might just push them over enough to go through with it without fucking it up.

yeh but by making it illegal instead of say sending them to jail for it maybe make them attend compulsary counselling or put them on suicide watch. and it shuld go on their record so that for example if they ever need a organ transplant hospitals are away that in the past they have atempted suicide.

 

[madmick19]

yeh but by making it illegal instead of say sending them to jail for it maybe make them attend compulsary counselling or put them on suicide watch. and it shuld go on their record so that for example if they ever need a organ transplant hospitals are away that in the past they have atempted suicide.

wow you know the thing that grabs me about what you have said here is that there is a thought of forcing people who obviously have endured a experiences so bad that they would want to kill themselves to a form of punishment...eg mandated counselling or threat of potential reduced access to medical services- no organs for people who have attempted suicide.

i think that we miss the big picture here, we as a culture need to look at the role of the individual and how it is held sacrosant to anything else.

Individualty since the enlightenment has produced its own set of problems,addiction is based on the individual doing things that it shouldnt otherwise be doing which is a moral position. most of peoples problems occur between the individual and their social environment.

lets face it people like to be able classify others so that there position or status is maintatined or improved. the diagnostic and statisitical manual of mental disorders is full of fairly vague descriptions that legitimises medicines place in treating things and a broad way to classify people fpr the sake of explaining them.

others believe that things like addiction serve a pupose as a nessasary hypocracy for individuality to continue to exist- i sure do

its my right, i was addicted, not my fault --- that way the sacred position of the individual is not compromised as being faulty


if we did take a leap of faith and question some of the assumptions that underpin western society we may well be able to engineer a society that may well be more like the collective conciousness that some feminist writers talk about.

 

[skatkid]

wow you know the thing that grabs me about what you have said here is that there is a thought of forcing people who obviously have endured a experiences so bad that they would want to kill themselves to a form of punishment...eg mandated counselling or threat of potential reduced access to medical services- no organs for people who have attempted suicide.

yeh i guess i have a harsh view on suicide. regardless of circumstances suicide is a soft, and selfish option where the person, instead of doing the hard yards and addressing their problem, takes the easy option which often devestates those they leave behind.
im a believer in preserving life and that suicide is considered by people who dont have enough respect for their life.

 

[madmick19]

i wonder how you got those beliefs?? a skeptical social scientist would say that all you did to aquire it was live in a society where that belief is used as a moral argument against suicide

 

[Green Laser]

yeh i guess i have a harsh view on suicide. regardless of circumstances suicide is a soft, and selfish option where the person, instead of doing the hard yards and addressing their problem, takes the easy option which often devestates those they leave behind.
im a believer in preserving life and that suicide is considered by people who dont have enough respect for their life.

And why exactly, should we have more respect for our lives? A question so often asked, yet never really answered.

 

[phase_dancer]

and it shuld go on their record so that for example if they ever need a organ transplant hospitals are away that in the past they have atempted suicide.

No-one should ever be turned down for such a reason. However, all recipients should also be donors IMO. If I had my way, I'd make it compulsory to both donate your organs and have what's left donated to science. What's left from that could then be used to grow vegetables.....How's that for recycling and doing away with redundant ceremonies

 

[The_Idler]

im a believer in preserving life and that suicide is considered by people who dont have enough respect for their life.

Hah.


Many people believe that sex before marriage is an evil sin.


there's still no real evidence to suggest why this should objectively be so,
just like in your situation.
You have to "believe" something,
because there's no evidence to actually support the idea,
that a human life is anything more than a tiny part of a massively overblown chemical reaction.

 

[KingConvenience]

When it boils down to it, Australia is pretty chilled about illegal drug use. Flaunt a baggie of ice around US/Singapore/Dubai to get a grip on reality or alternatively, find something worthwhile to get strung out about.

 

[dnaenterprises1@ya]

yeh i guess i have a harsh view on suicide. regardless of circumstances suicide is a soft, and selfish option where the person, instead of doing the hard yards and addressing their problem, takes the easy option which often devestates those they leave behind.
im a believer in preserving life and that suicide is considered by people who dont have enough respect for their life.

Edit- Unnecessary.
Until you've walked in the shoes of someone with a terminal illness, or someone who has been tortured, raped or abused, or anyone who takes the sad route of suicide, you cannot know thier pain. And i truly hope you never do have to know such pain. Suicide can be the bravest and most noble thing a person ever does.

 

[chugs]

suicide and self mutilation should be illegal as why shuld tax payer money pay for the hospital fees for the person who did damage to themselves.

and to say society is becoming more totalitarian is not true in all aspects. in other areas we are more liberal then ever for example sex and sexual expression.

if you want a place that is quickly becoming like that then go live in the US.

Edit- Unnecessary.

yeh i guess i have a harsh view on suicide. regardless of circumstances suicide is a soft, and selfish option where the person, instead of doing the hard yards and addressing their problem, takes the easy option which often devestates those they leave behind.
im a believer in preserving life and that suicide is considered by people who dont have enough respect for their life.

Pray you should actually educate yourself regarding the psychology of suicide before you start making inflamatory statements like that.

Suicide affects us all, most of us have thought about it if not tried or worse still known people who have tried, or sadly gone that one step further. Simply because it has affected you doesn't give you the right to shoot your fucking mouth off, or has enlightened you with some special knowledge that suicide is some sort of "easy option".

Suicide isn't the easy option. Fuck its the hardest thing I've tried doing in my entire life and even then I failed (ha).

Edit- lil angel15