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Election 2020 The Final Countdown v. Nov. 3rd

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birdup.snaildown said:
So now you've changed it from Biden "tries to be seen as honest" and "only lies when he doesn't think he can get caught" to: he blatantly lies, but his blatant lies aren't as bad as Trump's blatant lies?

Biden lied about his qualifications. He lied about what university he went to. He lied about fracking. He lied about stacking the supreme court. He has (countless times) lied about Trump in order to manipulate the election in his favor. All of these are as bad as or worse than saying there were more votes than voters in certain districts IMO... but that is besides the point. You said he doesn't blatantly lie. Clearly he does.
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What I said was that politicians in general don't lie about things that can be effortlessly debunked.

Bidens education lies are from 40 years ago, at the time he probably didn't think it'd be easy to disprove.

I'm not sure how he lied about stacking scotus. He hasn't had the chance now and every time I've seen it come up he's just been evasive.

I can't comment about non specific lies about trump.

My point is that before trump politicians didn't try to outright dismiss basic elements of reality and replace them with his own.

Biden doing that would be if he for instance, did stack the Supreme Court then outright said it never happened. Like trump has done whenever he's said that he never said stuff he's on video as saying.
 
JessFR said:
he's just been evasive.
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Same as lying.

JessFR said:
My point is that before trump politicians didn't try to outright dismiss basic elements of reality and replace them with his own.
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Sure, they did... are you talking about all politicians before Trump?!?

Biden doing that would be if he for instance, did stack the Supreme Court then outright said it never happened. Like trump has done whenever he's said that he never said stuff he's on video as saying.
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Biden has blatantly lied about stuff that he has said on tape so many times. He did it repeatedly throughout both presidential debates and Harris did it in the VP debate.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
Same as lying.
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But it's not the same kind of lying. That's my problem, or one of many problems I have with trump. He lies so blatantly and people fucking defend it.

Biden can tell a lie 40 years ago and people get outraged, whole trump outright says he didn't say something we have video of him saying and his supporters actually believe it! They're like cultists.

birdup.snaildown said:
Sure, they did... are you talking about all politicians before Trump?!?



Biden has blatantly lied about stuff that he has said on tape so many times. He did it repeatedly throughout both presidential debates and Harris did it in the VP debate.
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Again I can't comment about non specific examples.

I can't argue about a lie if I don't know what it was.

And yes, I'm talking about the vast majority of American politicians before trump in the modern era. They didn't lie about basic facts and try and create an alternate reality. They knew that they were supposed to tell the truth and had to try and get away with lying when they wanted to lie. They didn't just lie even when it was blatantly obvious and just insist "it's not a lie, anything saying otherwise is fake news!"

That's my problem. Trump has so further divided Americans that the left and right don't even live in the same reality anymore.

The right denies even the most basic aspects of objective reality because trump says so then have the audacity to call other people sheep!
 
The MSM (and the left) lies more about Trump than he lies himself... You said yesterday the Trump administration lost 40 out of 40 lawsuits because you believe the MSM like a cultist?

You guys keep mentioning how divided Americans are and blaming that on Trump. It's not caused by Trump. It's caused by people on the left insisting that opinions that don't fit into their narrative are toxic. It's caused by so-called progressivism. It's caused by the PC police. It's caused by religious double standards. It's caused by the LGBTQLIHRPHCYOHSOIHNG community constantly calling everyone bigots. It's caused by the blatant likes from BLM.

People blame Hitler for the wild anti-semitism that resulted in the holocaust, but it was there before he said anything about it. Trump isn't responsible for how divided your country is. That's nonsense. The left is (at least) as responsible as the right. IMO significantly more so.
 
Here's an example: Biden said he was going to ban fracking then (during both presidential debates) he said he insisted he never said it. I honestly can't believe you're arguing that he doesn't blatantly lie about things he's said. Did you watch the debates? He unflinchingly lies about everything, like pretty much every politician ever.

JessFR said:
Biden can tell a lie 40 years ago and people get outraged,
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Nobody is outraged. It's just an example of a huge lie that he said on tape. I've never heard of another president lying about: their qualifications, how high they graduated relative to the rest of their class AND their college in one sentence.

If you don't see that as evidence of him being a sleazy lying piece of shit, I don't know what would qualify?

If Trump said he had a PhD from Harvard in political science, people would crucify him... but, as usual, a double standard is applied.
 
Also, as for the supposed 8 lawsuits....

Now that it's morning...

Arizona Republican Party v. Fontes
Donald J. Trump for President v. Hobbs
Brooks v. Mahoney
Boland v. Raffensperger
Pearson v. Kemp
Wood v. Raffensperger
Costantino v. Detroit
Donald J. Trump for President v. Benson, One in federal court and another in state court)
Bally v. Whitmer
King v. Whitmer
Kistner v. Simon
Becker v. Gloria
Election Integrity Project of Nevada v. Nevada
Marchant v. Gloria
Rodimer v. Gloria
Barnette v. Lawrence
Hamm v. Boockvar <-- This is one of the only suits trumps essentially won.... in so far as they set aside the votes for future litigation
Donald J. Trump for President v. Montgomery Cty. Bd. of Elections
Donald J. Trump for President v. Philadelphia Cty. Bd. of Elections
Donald J. Trump for President v. Boockvar
Donald J. Trump for President v. Bucks Cty. Bd. of Elections


This is far from all of them.

And it doesn't matter that trump didn't personally file all these lawsuits. They are all part of his strategy to contest the election. Trump doesn't have standing to file a lot of these lawsuits so he has to get someone who was actually affected to start the complaint. It's still the case that the lawsuit is part of his campaign to disenfranchise biden voters.
 
First of all, you've gone from 40ish to 20ish.
Second, you're not even looking at what those law suits are.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF THOSE SUITS WERE NOT FILED BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

3rd on your list. Brooks vs Mahoney.

On November 11, 2020, four voters in Georgia sued Thomas Mahoney, Chairman of the Chatham County Board of Elections, in federal district court.
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4th.

On November 30, 2020, a Georgia voter, Paul Andrew Boland, sued state election officials in state court.
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5th

On November 27, 2020, a group of voters led by teenage conservative activist C. J. Pearson filed a lawsuit against Brian Kemp, the governor of Georgia, and other state officials.
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I couldn't be bothered going through all of them.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
Here's an example: Biden said he was going to ban fracking then (during both presidential debates) he said he insisted he never said it. I honestly can't believe you're arguing that he doesn't blatantly lie about things he's said. Did you watch the debates? He unflinchingly lies about everything, like pretty much every politician ever.
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I haven't found any evidence that Biden said he would outright ban fracking. He said he'd ban fracking on federally owned land.

This whole "MSM LIES FAKE NEWS" is exactly what I'm talking about. Trump started this narrative that nothing the news says can be trusted even when it's clearly true, and it's furthered the division by, again, ensuring there can be no common ground between left and right because the right won't accept any source of information they don't already agree with.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
First of all, you've gone from 40ish to 20ish.
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There's way more, I just couldn't be bothered going through every single one.

birdup.snaildown said:
Second, you're not even looking at what those law suits are.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF THOSE SUITS WERE NOT FILED BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

3rd on your list. Brooks vs Mahoney.



4th.



5th



I couldn't be bothered going through all of them.
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BECAUSE THEY CAN'T FILE THEM. They don't have standing.
That doesn't mean they aren't their lawsuits.

If I want to launch legal action against mcdonalds because I hated their limited time mcfatso meal or something. I can't do that if I never actually ordered a mcfatso meal myself.
But just cause I find someone who did and encourage them to file the lawsuit doesn't mean it's not part of my efforts to legally attack mcdonalds.

Get it?

That the trump campaign didn't file them directly is irrelevant. The goal is still to get biden votes thrown out, and it was still done at trumps behest. Using arguments trumps team came up with.

Birdup. I love you <3. But I also hate you!

But I also <3 you :p.
 
The MSM is fake news.

Bash: "Thank you, Mr. Vice President. Just to clarify, would there be any place for fossil fuels, including coal and fracking, in a Biden administration?"

Biden: "No, we would -- we would work it out. We would make sure it's eliminated and no more subsidies for either one of those, either -- any fossil fuel."
 
JessFR said:
Get it?
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Perhaps what you're saying applies to the Republican party filing lawsuits for Trump, but it certainly doesn't apply to voters filing lawsuits.

Three out of the first five of the suits you mentioned were filed by voters.

Are you even reading what you're posting?

JessFR said:
Birdup. I love you <3. But I also hate you!
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I'd hate someone too if they consistently destroyed me during political debates. ;)
 
birdup.snaildown said:
Three out of the first five of the suits you mentioned were filed by voters.
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Ok lets use them as an example...

Brooks v. Mahoney.
Looking at the complaint, https://www.democracydocket.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/2020/11/1.pdf
The lawyer was "Ray Smith, III
Local Counsel for Plaintiffs"

Ray Smith, googling that name... https://lawandcrime.com/2020-electi...on-results-turned-into-a-tax-deductible-coup/

"Lawyers Releasing the “Kraken”

Lawyers Sidney Powell and Lin Wood also claim to have set up 501(c)4s—which are not tax-deductible—chipping into the effort. Both declined repeated requests to share exemption applications for the purported charities."
"Wood’s attorney Ray Stallings Smith III disclosed that Trump’s campaign also retained him as counsel."

Kinda looks like it's one of the lawyers working with trumps legal team handling Brooks v. Mahoney.

Lets try Pearson v. Kemp.


Oh look...
"Respectfully submitted, this 25th day of November, 2020. "
/s Sidney Powell*
Sidney Powell PC"

Just because the trump campaign isn't the plantiff doesn't mean they're not part of trumps legal efforts. They're his lawyers filing them.

The trump campaign can't be the plantiff directly because it doesn't have standing for most of these cases.

That does NOT make them independent cases files by patriotic americans just trying to see a fair election! :/
They are cases filed by his lawyers as part of his efforts to stay in office in spite of having lost the election.
 
I also skipped a bunch of cases when coming the list before.

You want me to go over every one and see if I can find it's trumps lawyers behind it?

The point was that trumps people have been filing piles of lawsuits (NOT 8 )and haven't gotten anywhere because there's no evidence of fraud.

Most of the lawsuits don't even allege fraud.
 
You went from 40 to 20, then (of those 20) you skipped one out of three that I challenged.

Point is, the number is closer to 9 than 40... Maybe it's 15.

You said they lost 40 out of 40.
They haven't lost anywhere near 100% of their cases.
By your own admission they won one of them and many of them are ongoing.
 
They've lost all but 1.

They had another one that they won but then a higher court threw it out.

And no, I didn't change it to 20, it's still 40,but you demanded more specifics rather than googling it yourself, so I collected a bunch to show it was more than 8.

Dont pretend I said shit I didn't say.

It's very easy to find lists of all the lawsuits the campaigns lawyers are behind.

But yeah, I don't argue this that hard, and wanna know why?

Trump supporters don't argue in good faith.

They call any source that disagrees with them fake news. Hence why I generally provide no sources now at all. It's a waste of my time.

When you say all mainstream media is fake news. That's bad faith argument. It's impossible to have a mature debate with someone who does that. So yeah, I don't give it my all when I argue this stuff with trump supporters. Because it's pointless.

It's like arguing with scientologists or conspiracy theorists.

When your opponent rejects all sources of truth except those that agree with them on an as needed basis, there's no point treating debate seriously so I don't.
 
JessFR said:
I didn't change it to 20, it's still 40
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Yes, you did. You said 40 and quoted a wikipedia article to prove this. I pointed out that some of the cases you were counting were against Trump... so you edited the list from that source down to about 20.

If it's "still" 40, show me the 40 cases.
Otherwise, it isn't.

JessFR said:
It's very easy to find lists of all the lawsuits the campaigns lawyers are behind.

But yeah, I don't argue this that hard, and wanna know why?

Trump supporters don't argue in good faith.

They call any source that disagrees with them fake news. Hence why I generally provide no sources now at all. Its a waste of my time.
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COP OUT!

Don't tell me I'm not arguing in good faith when you blatantly change it from 40 to 20, then say that you didn't, then tell me it's my fault.
 
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