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Election 2020 The Final Countdown v. Nov. 3rd

alasdairm

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there is a movement to try to get states to change their rules to award their electoral college votes to the winner of the national popular vote. i'll try to find you a link.

alasdair
 
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dalpat077

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Thanks for that. Have not seen that page before. Will read tomorrow morning (late here now).

Just in closing for now: have read in several places that most of the reasoning behind the Electoral College system no longer applies or is dated EXCEPT for the proportional representation of each state part (not sure if those are the right words to use but I think you know what I mean). At a quick glance on your link provided I think this is addressed.

Cheers for now and thanks.
 

Deru

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JessFR

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The thing to understand, that I believe anyway, is that trump, is not a trumpist.

What I mean by that is, unlike his most extreme followers, he doesn't really believe what he says. Other than that way all good liars do, where you kinda create an alternate mindset you put yourself in where you believe your lies.

He does love himself as much as the fanatical trumpists do though so he's half way there! :D
 

TheInvisibleStoner

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How many times did Trump lose now?

Dude is so depressed he isn't even posting much on twitter.

Still too many delusional Trump supporters.

 

alasdairm

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Dude is so depressed he isn't even posting much on twitter.

nah, he went golfing. the g20 is meeting right now. the u.s. had ~195,000 new cases on saturday and the g20 planned a “pandemic preparedness” event to discuss a coordinated response to the global pandemic. trump went golfing instead.

he's been in office 1404 days and visited his golf properties 289 times in that period (at an estimated cost to the u.s. taxpayer of ~$140M).

20% of his time at his own golf properties, funneling public money into his private business.

he should have listened to this guy:


alasdair
 

TheLoveBandit

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Getting to the point ...

I wanna say 'attractive', and then I hit play and that NY-NJ accent is so damn off putting, and comes with the stream of profanities that seem to be a requirement with the accent. I could almost mute say 'attractive' but then those cross earrings keep swinging and dangling reminding me of her religious background...another off putting issue. She has to be in the middle of NJ with little around in order to drive for a minute solid and not really need to worry about running into anything while she shouts at the camera. I swear, she closed by saying she will be in DC, handing out 'lettuce'. Um...ok.

Despite all that, no threats of violence from the right. How odd. It's as if the right believes in defending their rights through civil means - emotionally charged, but civil. No cries for rioting or burning anything. I'm not thinking that's how this works in todays day and age.
 

JessFR

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Apparently trump supporters think looking where they're driving is entirely optional.




Fine I'll say it. Damn women drivers! :D
 
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TheLoveBandit

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Getting to the point ...
For those wondering where I've been on all this....busy. Got some server shit to deal with. However, on the election in general, this is where I find myself:

Biden won. As much as I'd like to see Trump pull a miracle out of his ass with the lawsuits, there's been too much right wing conspiracy crap thrown against the wall and none of it is sticking thus far. Even Trump's team keeps saying 'it is coming, you wont believe it, etc'. Basically, this is the Trump version of the Russia!Russia!Russia! we heard for his first 2-3y and was a complete nothingburger. Whether Trump or Biden sits in the White House come January, idgaf that much. What I really want more than anything is all this bluster from team Trump and the courts to actually do something about our election process. I want faith restored in our electoral process more than anything.

Case in point, The Daily Signal (right lean, I believe) put out this article recently which highlights how a LOT of 2020's issues could have been avoided:

7 Ways the 2005 Carter-Baker Report Could Have Averted Problems With 2020 Election​


The bipartisan commission’s co-chairmen were former Democratic President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James Baker, a Republican who served in the George H.W. Bush administration.
...
The commission was created to address voting and election integrity issues raised by the tumultuous 36-day postelection battle of 2000, which was settled by the U.S. Supreme Court decision that resulted in awarding Florida’s 25 electoral votes and the presidency to Republican George W. Bush over Democrat Al Gore.
...

1) Voter IDs

With the vast expansion of mail-in voting this year, voter ID requirements were less likely.

Today, states have a patchwork of voter ID laws, with 36 states either requiring or requesting voters to present identification at the polls, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. The conference says only six states have “strict” photo ID requirements—Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Mississippi, Tennessee, and Wisconsin.

The Carter-Baker Commission called for voter ID standards nationwide in its 2005 report.

“To ensure that persons presenting themselves at the polling place are the ones on the registration list, the Commission recommends that states require voters to use the REAL ID card, which was mandated in a law signed by the President in May 2005,” the Carter-Baker Commission report said.

“The card includes a person’s full legal name, date of birth, a signature (captured as a digital image), a photograph, and the person’s Social Security number. This card should be modestly adapted for voting purposes to indicate on the front or back whether the individual is a U.S. citizen. States should provide an [Election Assistance Commission]-template ID with a photo to non-drivers free of charge.”

Carter, when speaking months after the release of the report, said other countries not known for being examples of democracy had fairer elections than the United States, and stressed the need for photo IDs.

“It’s disgraceful and embarrassing,” the former president said in May 2006. On IDs, Carter said, “Americans have to remember you have to have the equivalent to what we’re requiring to cast a ballot to cash a check or board a plane.”

2) Mail-In and Absentee Voting Risks

In a brief filed supporting the Trump campaign’s Pennsylvania litigation over mail-in ballots, a group of Republican state attorneys general reference the Cater-Baker Commission report among other items regarding mail-in voting and ballot harvesting.

The 2020 election trends seemed to shift dramatically as mailed-in votes were counted. Further, many questions have emerged about the point of origin for ballots.

Specifically, the report called on states to prohibit third parties or political operatives from collecting ballots—a practice commonly known as “ballot harvesting.”

The report stated: “Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud.”

“State and local jurisdictions should prohibit a person from handling absentee ballots other than the voter, an acknowledged family member, the U.S. Postal Service, or other legitimate shipper, or election officials,” the 2005 commission report said. “The practice in some states of allowing candidates or party workers to pick up and deliver absentee ballots should be eliminated.”

However, this year, as mail-in voting veered into becoming a partisan issue, the Carter Center issued a statement promoting support for mail-in voting, but maintaining safeguards against ballot harvesting.

The Carter Center, founded by the former president and first lady Rosalynn Carter, is affiliated with Emory University and promotes peace and democracy efforts globally and domestically.

A Carter Center press release in May said the commission report “noted among its many findings and recommendations that because it takes place outside the regulated environment of local polling locations, voting by mail creates increased logistical challenges and the potential for vote fraud, especially if safeguards are lacking or when candidates or political party activists are allowed to handle mail-in or absentee ballots.”

“However, the Carter-Baker Commission found that where safeguards for ballot integrity are in place—for example in Oregon, where the entire state has voted by mail since 1998—there was little evidence of voter fraud,” the Carter Center statement continued.

The commission’s main recommendations on vote-by-mail and absentee voting were to increase research on vote-by-mail (and early voting) and to eliminate the practice of allowing candidates or party workers to pick up and deliver absentee ballots.
Fortunately, since 2005, many states have gained substantial experience in vote-by-mail and have shown how key concerns can be effectively addressed through appropriate planning, resources, training, and messaging.
Carter himself is quoted in the press release saying, “I urge political leaders across the country to take immediate steps to expand vote-by-mail and other measures that can help protect the core of American democracy—the right of our citizens to vote.”

3) Avoiding Duplicate Registration Across State Lines

In Nevada, the Trump campaign asserts there were potentially thousands of out-of-state votes cast in one of the most closely contested states.

The Carter-Baker Commission report called for states to make it easier to track registered voters who move from one state to another to reduce duplication of registrations.

The report states, “Invalid voter files, which contain ineligible, duplicate, fictional, or deceased voters, are an invitation to fraud.”

“In order to assure that lists take account of citizens moving from one state to another, voter databases should be made interoperable between states,” the Carter-Baker report stated. “This would serve to eliminate duplicate registrations, which are a source of potential fraud.”

The report calls for states to maintain and update their voter registration lists.

“When an eligible voter moves from one state to another, the state to which the voter is moving should be required to notify the state which the voter is leaving to eliminate that voter from its registration list,” the report said, adding:

All states should have procedures for maintaining accurate lists, such as electronic matching of death records, driver’s licenses, local tax rolls, and felon records.
Federal and state courts should provide state election offices with the lists of individuals who declare they are non-citizens when they are summoned for jury duty.

4) Election Observers for Integrity

In Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Nevada, Republicans have complained that qualified election observers have been prohibited from watching the counting.

The Carter-Baker Commission report stressed the need for election observers to maintain the integrity of the ballots.

“All legitimate domestic and international election observers should be granted unrestricted access to the election process, provided that they accept election rules, do not interfere with the electoral process, and respect the secrecy of the ballot,” the 2005 report said.

Such observers should apply for accreditation, which should allow them to visit any polling station in any state and to view all parts of the election process, including the testing of voting equipment, the processing of absentee ballots, and the vote count.
States that limit election observation only to representatives of candidates and political parties should amend their election laws to explicitly permit accreditation of independent and international election observers.

5) Reliable Voting Machines

Voting machines have also been a significant issue in 2020, particularly in Michigan, as one county there flipped from Biden to Trump after a hand recount showed the machine count to be inaccurate.

The Carter-Baker Commission suggested that machines print out paper receipts for voters to verify their vote was accurately counted.

“States should adopt unambiguous procedures to reconcile any disparity between the electronic ballot tally and the paper ballot tally,” the 2005 report says. “The Commission strongly recommends that states determine well in advance of elections which will be the ballot of record.”

6) Media Calling Elections

On election night, Fox News Channel was the first to call the state of Arizona for Biden, prompting outrage in the Trump camp. Moreover, major media outlets have projected Biden to have won the election, even as vote counting and litigation continue.

The 2005 commission report also addressed problems with the media, suggesting news outlets voluntarily offer candidates free airtime and also show restraint in calling a state for one candidate or the other. The First Amendment would prevent any such rule from being mandatory.

“News organizations should voluntarily refrain from projecting any presidential election results in any state until all of the polls have closed in the 48 contiguous states,” the report states. “News organizations should voluntarily agree to delay the release of any exit-poll data until the election has been decided.”

7) Prosecuting Voter Fraud

The Carter-Baker Commission suggested that federal and state prosecutors should more aggressively monitor voter fraud.

“In July of even-numbered years, the U.S. Department of Justice should issue a public report on its investigations of election fraud,” the report says.

This report should specify the numbers of allegations made, matters investigated, cases prosecuted, and individuals convicted for various crimes. Each state’s attorney general and each local prosecutor should issue a similar report. … The U.S. Department of Justice’s Office of Public Integrity should increase its staff to investigate and prosecute election-related fraud.

tl;dr = over a decade ago, bi-partisan review saw the need to address:
  1. Voter IDs
  2. Mail-In and Abesentee Voting Risks
  3. Avoiding Duplicate Registration Across State Lines
  4. Election Observers for Integrity
  5. Reliable Voting Machines
  6. Media Calling Elections
  7. Prosecuting Voter Fraud
All of these seen as being addressed better in worse countries than America. Solutions offered, and ignored. And how many of those are causing us issues today by the lack of action then, and integrity now, by Congress and the states? I want my vote to count, fairly and honestly. I want the same for every citizen with a right to a vote. We are not there, and I simply wish we would get there, even if it is through the painful process of Trump's flailings.



In the meantime....

Anybody seen a kraken

 

JessFR

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I wouldn't hold your breath. Trumps legal approach is so bad they would probably find a way to fuck it up even if they actually did have bombshell evidence.
 

mal3volent

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Despite all that, no threats of violence from the right. How odd. It's as if the right believes in defending their rights through civil means - emotionally charged, but civil. No cries for rioting or burning anything. I'm not thinking that's how this works in todays day and age.

no rioting or looting--- just discrediting our democracy on the world stage. No biggie.
 

JessFR

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The right doesn't loot.

They go on lone wolf killing sprees and try to kidnap politicians. ;)
 

TheLoveBandit

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Getting to the point ...
I wouldn't hold your breath. Trumps legal approach is so bad they would probably find a way to fuck it up even if they actually did have bombshell evidence.

I haven't kept u on the threads in here, but I assume someone pointed out how they filed in one state, citing county votes in another state? Yeah, quality legal work.

 

JessFR

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I haven't kept u on the threads in here, but I assume someone pointed out how they filed in one state, citing county votes in another state? Yeah, quality legal work.


Yep. It's a joke.
It's defending an innocent man all the way to death row level bad.
 

JGrimez

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I'd just like to point out how hilarious it is to see people who still believe that Russia hacked the last election (without evidence) desperately trying to say there is no evidence of domestic widespread voter fraud this time (even though the evidence we already have of voter fraud dwarfs any evidence of alleged Russian collusion to alter last election's results).

I'm actually fascinated by how some people's minds work and how they're able to operate with such extreme hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance.
 

JessFR

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I'd just like to point out how hilarious it is to see people who still believe that Russia hacked the last election (without evidence) desperately trying to say there is no evidence of domestic widespread voter fraud this time (even though the evidence we already have of voter fraud dwarfs any evidence of alleged Russian collusion to alter last election's results).

I'm actually fascinated by how some people's minds work and how they're able to operate with such extreme hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance.

I've noticed you have a habit of accusing people of believing that trumps 2016 victory was illegitimate when they've never said anything of the sort. This is the third time I've seen you imply it without anyone seeming to have prompted it. You seem to just assume it on the basis of "people like that always believe it" or some shit.

Maybe you should make fun of hypocrisy that actually exists rather than that you made up.

That said though, while I consider trumps 2016 victory legitimate and always have, there's plenty of evidence that Russia interfered in the election. I just don't consider the interference as enough to say trump didn't legitimately win.

It's just our standards of evidence are different. I consider the results of multimillion dollar investigations that involved thousands of man hours of work evidence. Whereas you seem to think random people saying shit on their YouTube channel is evidence.

Russia definitely tried to help trump win. It's just I think that if we consider taking advantage of Americans gullibility to be election theft, then the concept of a fair election is so infeasible as to render the term pointless.

Even taking your accusation at face value though. Arguing for interference via troll farms and arguing for fraud via... The insane mess of nonsense trumps been doing that's too convoluted to describe, are worlds apart.
 
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JGrimez

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RT - Pennsylvania certifies election results, declares Joe Biden victorious in latest blow to Trump

None of this means anything:

In a statement following Michigan’s certification, campaign lawyer Jenna Ellis said “certification by state officials is simply a procedural step,” and that the president’s legal team will continue to fight the results in court.

Citing irregularities with mail-in ballots and closed-doors counting in Philadelphia, the Trump campaign is currently en route to the US Supreme Court with a case that lawyer Rudy Giuliani claims will invalidate more than 680,000 ballots that were cast “illegally, wittingly or unwittingly” in Pennsylvania.

The case has already been thrown out of a federal court in the Keystone State, but will be heard by an appeals court in Pennsylvania, and then, Giuliani stated on Saturday, by the Supreme Court.

It will drag on another 2/3 weeks and end up by the Supreme Court. They will have the final say.
 
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