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Election 2020 The Final Countdown v. Nov. 3rd

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dalpat077

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Just being doing some little bit of reading. It doesn’t seem as clear cut to me.

Alright here’s the scenario (and this merely for the sake of debate and enlightenment).

Trump carries on the way he is currently. Not all states have certified their votes yet. Trump, like it or not, is currently the POTUS. And I would argue that as things stand right now: Biden and Harris are technically still not President Elect or Vice President Elect.

Somebody takes it upon themselves to eliminate Biden and Harris (not an outsider or another country i.e. just one or two fanatical Trump supporters that are the butt of some comments here and may not be stable but may be well trained in the necessary).

President Trump immediately declares a national emergency. The declaration of a national emergency gives the President an extraordinary amount of powers and some of which, I’m guessing, could be used, at very least, to delay all matters while an investigation was being initiated.

Unlikely. Yes. Impossible. No. Relatively simple. Yes. Trump responsible or directly connected. No.

From the little bit that I have read thus far: this particular scenario does not seem to have been planned for and would cause a fair amount of uncertainty as to where to from there as there is no precedent.
 

JessFR

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Just being doing some little bit of reading. It doesn’t seem as clear cut to me.

Alright here’s the scenario (and this merely for the sake of debate and enlightenment).

Trump carries on the way he is currently. Not all states have certified their votes yet. Trump, like it or not, is currently the POTUS. And I would argue that as things stand right now: Biden and Harris are technically still not President Elect or Vice President Elect.

Somebody takes it upon themselves to eliminate Biden and Harris (not an outsider or another country i.e. just one or two fanatical Trump supporters that are the butt of some comments here and may not be stable but may be well trained in the necessary).

President Trump immediately declares a national emergency. The declaration of a national emergency gives the President an extraordinary amount of powers and some of which, I’m guessing, could be used, at very least, to delay all matters while an investigation was being initiated.

Unlikely. Yes. Impossible. No. Relatively simple. Yes. Trump responsible or directly connected. No.

From the little bit that I have read thus far: this particular scenario does not seem to have been planned for and would cause a fair amount of uncertainty as to where to from there as there is no precedent.

Even taking all of that at face value. It doesn't fix the big problem.

Putting aside that Biden and Harris have secret service protection, so this isnt what I'd call simple.

The big problem is trump hasn't actually been reelected. Unless you can somehow also fix it so trump wins the electoral college, none of it will matter, his term will still expire and continuity of government procedures take over. The new leader will then direct the executive law enforcement agencies to arrest trump for creating an insurrection.

Trump can't continue withing winning the electoral college in December. No matter what else happens.
 

Deru

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I'm not entirely certain Trump's endgame here is to win anymore.

There seems to be ulterior motives and moves happening and being presented as his narcissism and denial, perhaps for financial gain after he leaves office?
 

cduggles

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The electors will vote, and then Congress will decide whether or not to accept that vote. It’s all in the 12th Amendment.
If both the President and VP died, Congress still certifies the winner. After that happens, the controlling party has been determined.
So if they died now, it would be the worst possible confusion, but if they died after Congress certified the Democrat candidate as the winner, then it would just be a matter of which person the Democrats picked.
I’m fairly sure the line of succession is only applicable if Trump and Pence die right now.
 

JessFR

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I'm not entirely certain Trump's endgame here is to win anymore.

There seems to be ulterior motives and moves happening and being presented as his narcissism and denial, perhaps for financial gain after he leaves office?

No I think his endgame is to win, and if that fails, cause as much damage as possible to use to try and seize power again in a later election.

I believe his goal here is to create as much uncertainty and chaos with these bs fraud allegations in the hopes of getting this so stalled that enough states aren't able to vote against him in the EC. Either by failing to certify and not participating, or failing to certify and or getting the state legislator to appoint republican electors.

Hence why he is putting so much pressure on Republicans in key positions to obstruct.

It's unlikely to work but he will try anything to keep power.

When it most likely fails, he will cause as much damage to the country as he can in order to later blame it on biden.
 

JessFR

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I don’t think Trump will run again in 2024. Does anyone think he will?

I think it's entirely plausible.

Funny thing is, I still suspect trump probably didn't entirely plan to win back in 2016. If he'd lost then, he'd have cried fraud but I think he'd likely have just dropped it.

But now he's seen the power he has, he's used to it. And like any good narcissist he needs the continued adoration.

He will never give it up now if he has a choice.
 

cduggles

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Just being doing some little bit of reading. It doesn’t seem as clear cut to me.

Alright here’s the scenario (and this merely for the sake of debate and enlightenment).

Trump carries on the way he is currently. Not all states have certified their votes yet. Trump, like it or not, is currently the POTUS. And I would argue that as things stand right now: Biden and Harris are technically still not President Elect or Vice President Elect.

Somebody takes it upon themselves to eliminate Biden and Harris (not an outsider or another country i.e. just one or two fanatical Trump supporters that are the butt of some comments here and may not be stable but may be well trained in the necessary).

President Trump immediately declares a national emergency. The declaration of a national emergency gives the President an extraordinary amount of powers and some of which, I’m guessing, could be used, at very least, to delay all matters while an investigation was being initiated.

Unlikely. Yes. Impossible. No. Relatively simple. Yes. Trump responsible or directly connected. No.

From the little bit that I have read thus far: this particular scenario does not seem to have been planned for and would cause a fair amount of uncertainty as to where to from there as there is no precedent.
Harris doesn’t fit into the equation. She isn’t necessarily going to become president if Biden dies.
See this article:
The worst possible scenario is Biden dying before Congress accepts the votes of the electors.
 
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Deru

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I don’t think Trump will run again in 2024. Does anyone think he will?

I really doubt it. Once he concedes and/or is forced out, I think that will be it for Trump. As far another Trump, who knows.
 

JessFR

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But he could lose, and I don’t think he wants to look like a loser again.

He already worked out the solution to that in 2016.

Trump never loses. Ever. He just either wins or wins but has his win stolen by fraud.

You see in trump world, the vast majority of the country wants him. Only evil democrats who hate America don't want him so they rig the vote every time.

But soooo many people vote for trump, the attempts to rig it sometimes fail, that's how many people vote for him.
 

dalpat077

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The worst possible scenario is Biden dying before Congress accepts the votes of the electors.
Well at least you’re partly understanding what I’m getting at.

I am talking about before even the Electoral College has voted.

Not sure if either of these sources are credible (they used to be anyway). But read the two in relation to eachother and you will all see what I was getting at for the most part. The situation as it stands EXACTLY today is not covered. And even if it was: have a good read of POTUS emergency powers

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/01/presidential-emergency-powers/576418/

https://www.vox.com/21502447/trump-biden-death-what-happens

Not conspiring here. This all in reference to my comments re: an earlier response to one of @JessFR’s posts on Trump’s behavior and his most ardent supporters or fanatics. From what I gather it would not take much to trigger such series of events. Likely. No. Possible. Yes.

Key would be the national emergency declaration. Trigger event would be a Biden/Harris mishap of sorts. Job done seems to me. Could even result in a whole new election with a few tweaks here and there.

Come to think of it: an unfortunate Biden/Harris event may not even be necessary. A constitutional crisis could maybe be a reason for a POTUS to declare a national emergency thus invoking such executive powers.

And if ‘lil ‘ol me just came up with this: well I’d find it a stretch to believe that if any of this is valid that some fancy legal team has not thought out of the box. Or maybe they have. Which is really my point. Trump is not stupid. And given the amount of cases being thrown out of court: who knows. It would surprise me if there were no plan Z.
 
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cduggles

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I read the articles. I still stand by my opinion.
The 20th Amendment clearly calls for the president-elect, whoever that might be, to take office on January 20th. No matter what emergency powers are invoked, which requires the approval of Congress, and they aren’t voting for anything like that to happen.
 

dalpat077

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I read the articles. I still stand by my opinion.
The 20th Amendment clearly calls for the president-elect, whoever that might be, to take office on January 20th. No matter what emergency powers are invoked, which requires the approval of Congress, and they aren’t voting for anything like that to happen.
You got a sixth sense? I assume you’re not referring to the two articles I just posted? I only just posted them.
 

cduggles

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There won’t be another election.
There might be confusion if Biden died, but it’s highly unlikely Trump would prevail.
When push comes to shove (see Georgia and Michigan results), the Republicans in Congress and at the state level are going to make the right decisions, which is that Biden won, because everything they allow can come back to haunt them.
I worry more about Trump starting a conflict in Iran or stepping down our military presence in Afghanistan and Iraq too quickly than I do about what the courts are going to do.

Trump is not stupid.
The only lawyers who are willing to go the distance on these lawsuits about the election are, which speaks volumes.
 

JessFR

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There won’t be another election.
There might be confusion if Biden died, but it’s highly unlikely Trump would prevail.
When push comes to shove (see Georgia and Michigan results), the Republicans in Congress and at the state level are going to make the right decisions, which is that Biden won, because everything they allow can come back to haunt them.
I worry more about Trump starting a conflict in Iran or stepping down our military presence in Afghanistan and Iraq too quickly than I do about what the courts are going to do.


The only lawyers who are willing to go the distance on these lawsuits about the election are, which speaks volumes.

I'm not afraid of the courts.

People seem to think I'm crazy for thinking this but I actually have more faith in the judicial system than either other branch of government.

So I'm not worried about that, I expected them to laugh these cases out of court and they have.

My only concern is the thought of trump using his terrifying amassed control of the republican party to try and influence state governments to bypass the vote.

It's very unlikely, but it's the one way I could imaging him somehow prevailing. And with consequences that high, even very low risks can be troubling.
 

Deru

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I'm not afraid of the courts.

I was more worried Trump would be able to find more solid evidence, and what that would have looked like had it made it to the courts. That’s why I can’t even imagine Trump believes he has any chance, at this point, to succeed in his attempts.
 
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