The Ethics of Turning People Onto Drugs

[Jabberwocky]

Recently a member was upset when I made an offhand suggestion to someone in a thread that instead of hiding their occasional meth use from their partner they ‘turn them onto meth’.

At the time I agreed it was an irresponsible remark. And normally on BL I discourage people starting up with meth. Although I have once or twice encouraged a well known active tweaker on BL to get high with me.

Then I saw another thread with a whole lot of enthusiastic responses regarding how to introduce a newbie to LSD. No-one was questioning whether that was responsible or in line with harm reduction.

So the question of the day is how do you feel about introducing new users to drugs or encouraging existing users with obvious problems to get high and what kind of rules or boundaries you might have about doing so.

Should different rules or standards apply to different drugs?

 

[TripSitterNZ]

Psychedelics have a different standard to them i.e because they are been used to try change and improve a persons life while hardcore addictive drugs like heroin meth cocaine will destory somebody pretty dam fast. Unleashing the dark hole of addiction on somebody else like meth is a pretty shitty thing but at the end of the day unless they literally are jaming a pipe into a persons mouth and forcing them to inhale its everybody own free choice to ruin themselves with hard drugs everybody knew the dangers going in im pretty sure.

I personally try suggest people into doing DMT or 5meo as i know it can provide endless benefits to a persons life and undo the damage of addiction.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I think so. Like, heroin is not the same as MDMA.

That is true. But there are threads on BL a mile long with dozens of people desperately asking if they will ever recover psychologically from their MDMA use. Many would say it has ruined their lives.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with providing someone with LSD, hypothetically, because it isn't an addictive drug & it at least has the potential to improve someone's life.

Certain other drugs, like meth, I wouldn't facilitate a newcomer's introduction to. I knew people who would do that, though. A former dealer I knew facilitated his GF's transition into intravenous opioid use so he could help sustain his own addiction...he even got her brother addicted to dope too. He was a pretty good dealer, one of the best I've ever known actually, but he was also an evil dude in certain respects. I don't use that word "evil" lightly, because many things in life, even horrific acts perpetuated by humans, aren't the result of "evil" in my opinion...often they're the result of fear, or rage, or other factors...but certain activities are very cold-blooded and heartless, and intentionally making someone into a slave to drugs for your own benefit is something like that IMO.

But, y'know, a lot of that morality stuff goes out the window when you're a drug addict. I love that scene in the movie "Trainspotting" when the guy (who has never really used drugs before) is desperate and keeps bugging his friend (the main character of the story, a heroin addict) to let him try dope, which the main character consistently rejects, until his buddy pulls out some money and offers to buy both of their drugs if he'll hook him up. Money talks and I didn't know a single person in real life who wouldn't hook up anyone who asked if they'd buy the drugs.

 

[G_Chem]

That is true. But there are threads on BL a mile long with dozens of people desperately asking if they will ever recover psychologically from their MDMA use. Many would say it has ruined their lives.

I’d argue that’s a recent trend which may have relation to the “mehDMA” phenomenon.

I’ve used MDMA for 15yrs and have had zero problem quitting for long periods of time when need to. The benefits this drug has provided me are too many to count. The negatives are few.

We can’t lump all drugs together. Offering to give some LSD a drug with near zero chance of dangerous OD, lots of potential benefits for many, it’s not comparable to offering meth which I’ve watched some nasty atrocities committed while under the influence..

When I was younger I introduced a lot of friends to harder drugs cuz I made it look so “functional” I suppose. I still feel guilt looking at how they all turned out when I feel like I escaped relatively unscathed.

In comparison I’ve introduced MANY to psychedelics and empathogens with zero regrets and only one person has ever lost it. I knew this kid from when he was a toddler and even as a little kid he was off, unusually violent and unpredictable even then.

-GC

 

[cosmic charlie]

Ive turned on alot of people with LSD and other psychedelics and dont regret that in the slightest. But like @G_Chem mentioned in my younger years i introduced a number to Heroin and that was just the wrong thing to do and i feel real guilty about it sometimes. I think about the havoc it unleased on their lives and have to live with that. But when i would give a person a capsule of 4-AcO-DMT or 4-HO-MiPT and afterwords they would tell me how it was one of the moat profound experiences of their life, well that made me feel a deep satisfaction. You can never lump all drugs together because things like psychs can be used as tools to help a person transform themselves into a happier and more loving human being.

 

[Joey]

This is a really hard question to answer. I feel like people are going to do what theyre going to do anyway in most cases and usually they are approaching these situations in a pro-use stance themselves so in that scenario its okay. When a couple people are both users anyway and not trying to he all HR then obviously thats fine, barring a do it til we die attitude thats dangerous.

straight up turning an unsuspecting person to the idea of doing any mind altering drug all on your own without prompt is something only a real sick loser would do though. Even pot, people get fucked up from their marijuana sometimes too seriously. I take this scenario as a real situation by situation judgement call and dont have any one answer for it. It just depends man. Be someone who can be depended on to give the best advice or help you can give is my answer and let people decide for themselves what to do with their lives. Theyre likely to do that anyway, just dont force it.

 

[RedRum OG]

I think if someone asks you on their own accord, its ok-ish.

Romanticizing or glorifying drugs to squares, on the other hand, is lame.

Once upon a time, a kid I knew from high school asked me to help him cop H. I took him with me to my guy. He got hooked, and I still feel bad, even though, as far as i know, he straightened out 10 years ago.

 

[somnilicious]

I’d argue that’s a recent trend which may have relation to the “mehDMA” phenomenon.

I’ve used MDMA for 15yrs and have had zero problem quitting for long periods of time when need to. The benefits this drug has provided me are too many to count. The negatives are few.

We can’t lump all drugs together. Offering to give some LSD a drug with near zero chance of dangerous OD, lots of potential benefits for many, it’s not comparable to offering meth which I’ve watched some nasty atrocities committed while under the influence..

When I was younger I introduced a lot of friends to harder drugs cuz I made it look so “functional” I suppose. I still feel guilt looking at how they all turned out when I feel like I escaped relatively unscathed.

In comparison I’ve introduced MANY to psychedelics and empathogens with zero regrets and only one person has ever lost it. I knew this kid from when he was a toddler and even as a little kid he was off, unusually violent and unpredictable even then.

-GC

I unfortunately suffered a horrendous LTC from quality MDMA, circa 1997-2000. I also admittedly over did it but that was because most of the available literature at the time made it sound harmless, non addictive and only focused on its many positives. I was so caught up in the love of the rave scene that I became careless and I had to face the consequences for many years.

Harm reduction was just coming into it's infancy and nobody talked about LTC's, so I was under informed and felt alone. None of my friends believed MDMA could have the long lasting effects it did on me because it didn't happen to them. I suffered in silence and was told it's all in your head. Only years later did I discover the LTC thread on BL and realized that I was not alone. I am not demonizing MDMA and I am glad that harm reduction sites like BL exist.

On the topic.....I would never turn anybody on to hard drugs. The only substances that I would feel comfortable turning a 1st time user on to are marijuana and psychedelics. Even with those substances I would make sure the person was completely informed and mature enough to make a proper decision and I probably wouldn't do psychedelics with them or help them procure the substance myself simply because I wouldn't want the responsibility.

Due to my personal suffering I could never advocate MDMA, though I know that responsible use has greatly helped a large # of people. They simply need to be aware of the potential long term consequences that can occur from even old school, clean, tested MDMA. I just personally would never introduce anybody to MDMA but I also wouldn't look down on anybody who does in the way I would with say meth or heroin. I know it has its place and benefits if approached with moderation. That's why Bluelight is so important as a harm reduction site and information source.

 

[G_Chem]

I unfortunately suffered a horrendous LTC from quality MDMA, circa 1997-2000. I also admittedly over did it but that was because most of the available literature at the time made it sound harmless, non addictive and only focused on its many positives. I was so caught up in the love of the rave scene that I became careless and I had to face the consequences for many years.

Harm reduction was just coming into it's infancy and nobody talked about LTC's, so I was under informed and felt alone. None of my friends believed MDMA could have the long lasting effects it did on me because it didn't happen to them. I suffered in silence and was told it's all in your head. Only years later did I discover the LTC thread on BL and realized that I was not alone. I am not demonizing MDMA and I am glad that harm reduction sites like BL exist.

On the topic.....I would never turn anybody on to hard drugs. The only substances that I would feel comfortable turning a 1st time user on to are marijuana and psychedelics. Even with those substances I would make sure the person was completely informed and mature enough to make a proper decision and I probably wouldn't do psychedelics with them or help them procure the substance myself simply because I wouldn't want the responsibility.

Due to my personal suffering I could never advocate MDMA, though I know that responsible use has greatly helped a large # of people. They simply need to be aware of the potential long term consequences that can occur from even old school, clean, tested MDMA. I just personally would never introduce anybody to MDMA but I also wouldn't look down on anybody who does in the way I would with say meth or heroin. I know it has its place and benefits if approached with moderation. That's why Bluelight is so important as a harm reduction site and information source.

This is very true LTC’s did happen even back then. I shoulda been more specific. The difference was almost all of them back then were due to overuse like yourself. And they weren’t nearly as common even with the increased overuse and overall more people using the drug period. (MDMA use in America has actually been on a steady decline believe it or not.)

Nowadays the more common scenario is that it happens on the individuals first experience/s. The individual often has little or no past drug history. Sometimes overdosing is involved but most of the time not. There’s also been a few reports where multiple individuals got the same LTC off the same batch, which to me signifies possibly an impurity causing this.

That said, I can completely understand from your personal experience why you wouldn’t. Out of all the drugs in the “scene” MDMA and K are the two which can be the most problematic.

I personally would never introduce someone to K anymore. Every person I’ve introduced has used to excess.

Last summer we took my wife’s cousin to a festival and unfortunately he was introduced to K soon as he got there. I was worried but he swore up and down he’d only do a little bump that night and be done with it.

Cue 24hrs later he’s begging me like a fiend to get him a gram cuz “he won’t do but a few points, he doesn’t even need the rest, blah blah blah”. Then proceeds to act like a creep to female friends there cuz he got too high and drunk. I end up babysitting the kid more than I wanted. I say kid even though he’s a grown ass man that should know better.

MDMA use can get bad too but often most people back off when the depression and anxiety get bad enough to make them. I’ve had moments of overuse but to this day seem fine, although I never want to go through another comedown like I did the couple times I dosed 4 days in a row lol.

-GC

 

[coldraviolis]

i mean, id say it rly depends on the drug and on the person, i dont think u can really compare a psychedelic like lsd that doesnt rly have a lethal dose or really cause addiction to something like meth, coke or heroin which are known for fucking up people's lives

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Hmm. I think it depends on both the person and the drug in question. I turned my wife 'on' to weed, psilacetin, phenibut, and shorter half-life benzos. Of those I feel the worst about sharing the benzos because I do see her get rebound anxiety the following day, but she rarely doses them and only when she really can't sleep. Otherwise no regrets. I've turned others onto psychedelics and weed before of course and feel no guilt there.

I'd probably feel a moral quandary about sharing an opioid with an opioid naive individual, as that's a path you can't really turn back from easily. I don't share opioids with my wife; she hasn't asked but I'm not gonna suggest it as it's bad enough one of us goes in and out of dope addiction...

 

[cosmic charlie]

Was introduced to Heroin at the age of 17 and now almost twenty years later I still am addicted to opioids. Right now I've been using Buprenorphine in lowish dosages as maintenance but it still is a drag. I have alot of back problems from physical work over the years and need them for pain also and the Bupre helps with that. But I relapse on FentaDope sometimes and that is beyond sketchy. Last week I woke up on the floor with needle on the ground and dried blood on the crook of my arm, someday I may not wake back up. I've since blocked my connect and I'm gonna try real hard hut I said the NYE and relapsed few days later again. I wish I never met that dude who gave me my first bag but if it wasn't him may have been someone else, who knows.

 

[Hylight]

may have been someone else, who knows.

Please be careful. ♡ Just please. Okay.

 

[cosmic charlie]

I'm going to be careful @Hylight I just sniffed 4mgs of Bupre about a minute ago and that is all the Opioids I'm doing today I have to be at work in two hours. Have a friend I can buy more Suboxone Strips from cuz I only got like 4 pills worth left. My insurance is active again tho so I have to try and get in to see a Bupe Doctor after i get paid and then i wont have to stress about running out. Had three strips also but gave one to a friend because he is sick. If I'm smart I can make what I have last couple weeks at least and then i have almost 3 kilos Kratom as a last resort. This is why you dont people turn people onto Opioids having to always fight the sickness is stressful as fuck.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

My friend turned me onto LSD, MDMA and weed. I turned him onto Klonopin, Xanax, and Oxy.
Why? Because we were both drug-freaks, and in his "world" he could score those things, in mine I could score those.

I wouldn't offer any friend any type of drug who unless I knew they had done it and understood the consequences of it.
If they asked - I'd rather have them getting quality shit than getting ripped off.

But LSD and opiates are a bit touchy, especially LSD. Three of my friends completely lost their shit on LSD; two of them killed themselves shortly after.
Yes, they had problems before acid.
But I've seen friends try oxy once or twice then nevere again.

LSD has, in my opinion, a far heavier high than heroin. Sure, wrong dosage of H or a batch cut with shit and you done.
But acid can truly fuck someone up.

Flame on fuckers, IDGAF.

 

[Tanejames]

I’ve struggled with some actions I’ve taken in my past. I was an IV meth addict for 10 years, been clean 12 months off meth and the needle, but when I was in the peak of my addiction, I did give quite a few people their first taste of meth. I never would inject anyone that doesn’t already inject, but I did let at least 15 people have their first puff with me. In a way, I don’t feel bad, they knew the side effects, how addictive it was, and they had all seen me at my worst and if that wasn’t enough to put them off then I guess a good deal of the responsibility was on them too. But some days I feel bad when I look them up and see they’re still using after that first try

 

[ovo1024]

I don't know how to describe what happened to me accurately but I willingly smoked & snorted Meth for about a month at age 49 (late bloomer). Then one day a "friends" guy friend shot me up w/out my consent. I was so naive I didn't even know ppl slammed Meth. That as year and a half ago and I'm still in active addiction. I do take responsibility for my own addiction now but I blamed him for the longest time and when I asked him why he did that his response was he was told it's all I ever talked about.

I'm sorry but what? How did he inject you with meth without your consent? Lol. Were you being tied up first?

 

[finitelifeform]

Education is key. That's all you need. Development of character, maturity, awareness etc. The choice lies with the individual and I think most of the time because we have such a naive, close-minded and stigmatized culture on drugs the framework to provide and cater for drugs and drug experiences become much more darker and ends up brushed under the rug whereby people will tend to venture out on their own without the full support and consequently make much more riskier decisions knowing what they are doing doesn't come with the social validation and support necessary to inform, protect and educate them.

Basically put, if drugs were legal and drug policy was different it wouldn't be a case of hiding anything because drugs and drug use would simply be that - drugs and drug use. You take drugs? Yeah. Okay, cool. The drugs they take no longer matters because the framework is there for that person to take them in a way that corresponds with the nature of the drug, it's side effects, harms and even potential benefits as well as integrative support that ensures the person doesn't get lost in the underbelly of drug use/abuse that happens behind the scenes largely thanks to the f*cked up system we have that fails to facilitate and integrate the reality of drugs in society.

The ethical implications should be shared across society not solely by an individual. When everybody is on the same page and the social policies reflect responsible, open and honest values surrounding drugs pretty much everybody will have sufficient understanding of what drugs exist in society, where to ge them, their side effects, pros/cons etc. It wouldn't be a case of being unethical because the very framework would exist to wipe out the need to take things into the darkness where you find unethical decisions being made. If you can shoot up with somebody in a safe, secure and welcoming environment where the law and society accomodates you, the usual concerns surrounding drugs reduce significantly. If you turn someone on to something, there is the framework there to, again, provide the necessary support in a way that takes it out into the open.

 

[cduggles]

If you turn someone on to something, there is the framework there to, again, provide the necessary support in a way that takes it out into the open.

But that framework rarely, if ever, currently exists. So what are your beliefs about introducing people to drugs now, as things are?