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The current vaping lung ‘epidemic’

Thomas Davie

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The press (I’ve seen it on CNN) has strongly associated the outbreak of illness with the use of THC and/or Cannabis vapes. No one has mentioned that Cannabis oil has been vaped or vaped for over 50 years (I was buying oil in bottle caps ~1980). Vape cartridges have been around for about 5-8 years? And we’re just seeing a relative cluster of illnesses now.

I figure it’s

1) an additive, say vitamin e-acetate. I would expect to see these types of incidents to start happening more and more frequently and in more locations. This will continue until legalization.
2) A contaminated lot (of oil, bad cartridges or other cutting agent). As the ‘bad stuff’ gets disseminated into the market you’d start to get clusters of people getting sick. These types of incidents would dwindle as the contaminated material is consumed.

Whatever the cause of the current problems, I’d like to see the media explicitly rule out Cannabis/THC as a cause.

Tom
 

Jibult

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I wasn't under the impression that anybody was saying cannabis (or any derivative) is specifically the cause? Everything I see in the media is specifically blaming the oil cartridges-- I've seen nothing about vaping dry herb/flowers with this latest "health scare."
 

w01fg4ng

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Carts were getting way too popular for my liking anyway, I'm kind of glad a small shift is happening with them. Concentrates are best used as is, in my opinion. A simple wax pen can out perform a cart. I've been making my own carts/pods for a couple years and still use a regular wax pen 9 times out of 10 instead of the cart/pod.

At the least, it will shine a light on regulations that are necessary. Legalization is the most efficient way forward.
 

Hylight

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i quit getting those cannabis oil vapes. they were too much moisture for my lungs and made me huck alot of gobs from coughing.
but yes, remember back in the day there was hawaiian hash oil. oil pipe bongs, sure.
now some things seem to be a bit more commercialized.
I have no problem with the resen extract and the wax.
The cartridge oil has too much moisture is what I should have said from the start.
 

Delusional Thomas

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I also fear that people are going to blame cannabis for these problems...

I saw a news article today talking about the dangers of carts. A cannabis testing facility tested 18 carts from dispensaries and unlicensed dealers. The 8 legal carts came back clean. All 10 of the counterfeit/black market carts tested positive for all kinds of nasty shit. The headline read, "Hydrogen cyanide found in THC vaping cartridges" rather than "Hydrogen cyanide found in black market THC vaping cartridges."

Maybe I'm reading too deep into it. But we seem to be living in a time where people get their facts from news headlines without reading into the actual story. Many of the articles I've read point to black market carts in the story itself, but the headline is always "Man dies from vaping THC cartridges" or some shit. Which could technically be true, but it seems like they're intentionally leaving out important facts about those cartridges.

Who knows... Maybe it's just a click-bait tactic and I'm just being paranoid ?‍♂
 

Phobos

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I also fear that people are going to blame cannabis for these problems...

I saw a news article today talking about the dangers of carts. A cannabis testing facility tested 18 carts from dispensaries and unlicensed dealers. The 8 legal carts came back clean. All 10 of the counterfeit/black market carts tested positive for all kinds of nasty shit. The headline read, "Hydrogen cyanide found in THC vaping cartridges" rather than "Hydrogen cyanide found in black market THC vaping cartridges."

Maybe I'm reading too deep into it. But we seem to be living in a time where people get their facts from news headlines without reading into the actual story. Many of the articles I've read point to black market carts in the story itself, but the headline is always "Man dies from vaping THC cartridges" or some shit. Which could technically be true, but it seems like they're intentionally leaving out important facts about those cartridges.

Who knows... Maybe it's just a click-bait tactic and I'm just being paranoid ?‍♂
So what happened was that some people that were making those carts started to use an ingredient called "Honey Cut", that was coming from China, ingredients are unknown.
It allowed them to put less cannabis extract in the carts but still have a product that looked thick like it wasn't cut more than competition.
Normal cut is about 30%, using MCT coconut oil, and is needed to keep the extract liquid.
Fake carts with Honey Cut was up to 75% cut.
Using fake cartridges that would release heavy metals, the price of manufacturing one fake ass cart was about 3-4USD, and a legit one is like 14USD.
This started approximately in the last quarter 2018.
 

Egzoset

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Salutations Thomas Davie,

...I’d like to see the media explicitly rule out Cannabis/THC as a cause.
Actually i suspect this new threat comes from a 3rd-party mis-guided serial killer characterized by his driving urge to leave vilification signatures behind: more precisely i'm afraid we're dealing with a close socio-toxic friend of bigot anti-cannabic prohibitionism, assisted by lots of self-serving mass media & a large fanbase or predators - which is why it won't ever happen exactly. Quite obviously it's just too convenient being able to juxtapose unrelated items without ever having to validate anything, while it also contributes to divide already vulnerable consumers even further without ever addressing any blame to those who where present at UN's FCTC/COP6 2014 event, hidden from all potential sources of criticism in Moscow/Russia, champion of democracy... Which by the way is where Lucie "Nez Rouge" Charlebois, former sinister of Québec's healthy ways, found inspiration for her own anti-tobacco law, just the next year in my province; effectively rendering e-Cigs/Vaporizers equivalent to tobacco/nicotine combustion by denying "Harm Reduction" value in a public eye desperately relying on mass media for its "education".

...too much moisture for my lungs... ... ...cartridge oil has too much moisture...
The matter of cannabic "vapour" conditioning relative to a cooled/warm and/or moist/dry stream in as many variants never seems to resolve, so i conducted some extensive amateur experiment trying to clear the fog, many years ago:

My HerbalAire AirVapor & Fog Paths (2012-Dec-1) [200x200] .PNG Bag 'n cold Fog (2012-Nov-24) [200x200] .PNG
Egzoset's Arizer V-Tower & Cold Steam Conditoning (2013-Sep-21) [400x400] .PNG
Multiple variations got evaluated back then, though never independently duplicated so far (...), yet my conclusion was radically opposite: lungs as mine appear to require a tiny amount of Inlet Water or the vaporist device shall render me miserable until over-exposure triggers allergy symptoms, which is why after only ~3 weeks i decided to give away my Arizer V-Tower (pictured above) as the "Potpouri Warmer" it always was, while my HerbalAire picked up dust since practically around 2013.

Overall my intermediary solution could be schematized this way:

FogBong! (2012-Nov-17) .PNG

A controlled amount of humidified air must be allowed to mix with the precious cannabis "fumet", while in parallel i could increasingly verify that VaporGenie's pipes supply their own equivalent of moisture via extra-hot exhaust gases (H2O + CO2) captured from the corona of clean-burning (blue) butane flames, with a bonus: it also seemed to provide some beneficial "Potentialization" effect in pulse mode "Micro-Bursting" applications, on top of convenient portable self-conditioning. Hence these days my goal has been to suggest butane-free (though fallback Bi-Energy compatible) IH-driven precision alternatives relying on sterilized water, or even some eventual e-Liquid instead... The consumption tool itself inspires me plenty of undefectible confidence but i can't dismiss concerns that the lighter & associated fuel might still represent long-term issues even if using "bio" butane, assuming such a thing could exist at all.

In any case i try to stick to "The Shortest Path of Lesser Transformation" simply because alternative options invite further self-vilification, especially on a chronic consumption basis. Never mind to ask about concentrating nuisance by using processed liquids!

...

Editorialists are too satisfied to blame specific mood-altering cannabinoïds while they should perhaps pay more attention to physical aspects of e-Cig sessions, starting with microscopic airborne droplet size compared to the dual-heat "fumet" of Enrico Bouchard's former Sublimator, for example. Then i'd question methods/rituals promoting dosing abuse on top of Hot Dry Air Ovenization, considering today's relative lack of more rational alternatives giving access to real metered tokes - which reminds me of the recent joint advertising by Grenco/Vapium about their new Accudose device:

PR Newswire: Grenco Science and Vapium announce joint venture to introduce Accudose, a first-of-its-kind, accurate dosing technology for cannabis consumption (2019-Aug-13)

[ https:// myaccudose.com/ ]
Smarter Cannabis. Smarter Healing.

Introducing the worlds first smart device of its kind. More than accurate dosing, our bioadaptable vaporizer analyzes and customizes your usage experience to provide patients and practitioners the necessary knowledge to adapt treatment and experience to your unique biology.

The only other similar event on my mind goes back to the Syqe.

Simple intuition tells me the molecule's chemistry might as well happen to be accessorial, perhaps lungs clogging results from monster clouds of droplets still too large to pass from lung alveoles to bloodstream. Now lets compound to it the presence of adulterants as non-detection soups of "legal" insecticides, miticides, fungicides, nematicides and bactericides; doubled by mercantile-driven cheats revolving around fraudulent "cut" material meant to boost volume and/or mass. Because pure "bio" cannabinoïds have been rendered much too expensive by prohibition, the real "harm of cannabis" since a long-forgotten Victorian age...

Good day, have fun!! ☮
 
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Mafioso

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There's been at least 3 companies subpoenaed who make terpenes, thickeners, and thinners for use in vape. At least 2 companies have completely dropped similar lines of products as the ones subpoenaed. There is a company with a patent for vit e for use in vapes, who claim that their botanically derived vit e is a different isomer that is safe, than the supposed dangerous vit e acetate. I have yet to see any conclusive reports as to the cause.

Definitely a lot of over reaction and fear mongering, although 500 or so reported illnesses and a small but growing number of deaths is reason for concern in my book. It definitely needs to be researched and studied more, meanwhile I'm sure big tobacco is cheering the ban... well maybe not considering Juul is owned by phillip moris and i'm sure most the big vape companies are as well. I know there are a lot of corporate takeover in the weed industry as well through hidden funding, parnter companies, and rebranding.
 

Egzoset

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Salutations,

A modest update showing some void in alarmist binary logic, typically based on "illicit" origins of THC and so on:

CTV: Quebec public health director confirms first vaping-related illness in the province (2019-Sep-27)
Montreal director Mylene Drouin said at a news conference that a man in his 50s from the Montreal area was vaping since April to quit smoking cigarettes, and contracted an acute illness that tests, including X-rays, confirmed were due vaping with a legally purchased product.

So there was no cannabis considering it was a "legal" purchase, then what if not the consumption method + ritual?...

Good day, have fun!! ☮
 

Cream Gravy?

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The whole black market cartridge situation does seem to be concerning. I still mostly trust the ones I've been getting where I am and love them but they're not my preferred way to get baked, just convenient. The legit legal ones I've had have tasted/felt better though.

Regulation and oversight is needed not bans.
 

Mafioso

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The whole black market cartridge situation does seem to be concerning. I still mostly trust the ones I've been getting where I am and love them but they're not my preferred way to get baked, just convenient. The legit legal ones I've had have tasted/felt better though.

Regulation and oversight is needed not bans.
Not a whole lot different than any other black market drug.... tbh, probably a lot safer and less cut than say H, xtc, or coke...

It really won't be long now until the cannabis market resembles the alcohol and tobacco markets, give it a few more years and fed regulation will be there. Tons of little steps already happening, like allowing any isomer of CBD(which includes THC) for interstate commerce, and even bigger steps like Oregon allowing for interstate commerce with cannabis. It will fall just like medical, then rec- one state at a time, just like dominoes.
 

w01fg4ng

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Not a whole lot different than any other black market drug.... tbh, probably a lot safer and less cut than say H, xtc, or coke...
Actually, there is a difference. Marijuana IS safer than those drugs as well as most legal ones we have.

It really won't be long now until the cannabis market resembles the alcohol
Legal weed is here today because of this movement. I've been supporting it since 2005.

 

Mafioso

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dude are you tryin to troll me? I did say it's safer than most street drugs, but prove to me by how much so. My point was that cannabis is now in the cut game, where dealers increase/make profit by cutting the product. Carts have been found containing 0 marijuanas, so quit with your "awctuallee marijuana is safe". That's bullshit, and the ones who will fall prey to this bs is 95% kids.

And 2005? Dude, you realize the medical movement was strong in the 90's, and started long before that? But w/e.... not sure what that has to do with anything. Those grassroots and mom n paw shops and movements are over or dying. Corporate take over is here, and all the big alcohol, tobacco, pharmas, and ag are already planning and attempting to execute their takeovers. There have already been a number exposed but BL is really about 5 years behind on cannabis info anyways...
 
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Mafioso

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partly becauase BLUA won't allow for a lot of certain types of discussion, and it never really has been on the frontline on cannabis anyways. One could learn a lot more just by following the right industry people on Instagram. People don't come here for industry talk/questions, it's usually people trying to get high. Nothing wrong with that, but it's just the way dissemination of info works. I try to share what I have, but I always wind up in senseless debates/conversations/exchanges(like this one), where I wind up having to defend my position and getting off topic rather than staying on point. Honestly people like you are why I try to spend as little time in CD as possible. Know it alls who don't even have a hand in the industry....
 

w01fg4ng

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Hope you feel better, Maf.
 

Mafioso

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I will because we have legal weed because of that campaign that no one's heard of. And for that, I'd have to thank you for your participation.

Back on topic....

For anyone interested in a much more in depth conversation about the current vape "epidemic", I'd recommend starting here, or here, or here, or pretty much any thread in the "cart cutters" section. You'll get to read statements from actual chemist, egnineers, and other industry professionals- sometimes even the company itself in question, like with the true terpenes

Quick test: if the oil dissolves in water, it's probably cut with vit E. If it's got actual THC distillate in it and only cut with vit e, it should be bioactive if you drink it and pretty sure it'd be safe, possibly even healthy. The same problem with xtc, coke, and h arises tho- you won't know whether it's been cut with something safe/benign, or dangerous and harmful, so I wouldn't recommend drinking a cart that dissolves in water. I eat vit e everyday in the fish oil capsules I take.
 
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Jibult

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omg you two are so cute ♥

and you both are two of the most valuable BLers that pop in to CD. You guys may butt heads every now and then but it's clear to my uneducated ass that you both really know your shit.
 
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