• The database table for Search and "New Messages" functionality is currently being rebuilt. Until it is completed, you may see empty or incomplete results for these.
  • Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest Posting RulesBluelight Rules
  • PD Moderators: Cream Gravy? | Transform | Vastness | Xorkoth
  • Bluelight HOT THREADS
  • Let's Welcome Our NEW MEMBERS!

☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy TMA Series Thread

t_wrex

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 29, 2019
Messages
141
Was there ever any truth to the claim that TMA-2 could be extracted from sweet flag/calamus grass?
 

Xorkoth

🎨 ARTministrator 🎨
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
55,274
Location
In the mountains
Well ideally there would be no asarone as it would have all been converted. Asarone is carcinogenic. But yeah asarone is a major component of calamus essential oil. It can be converted (via chemical synthesis, not ingestion) into TMA-2.
 

stom10

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
148
Me? Are you talking about when I was was waiting for a vendor I already paid to synth various mescaline analogues? If so, no I never did and it was really disappointing. I did end up getting escaline and proscaline, 3C-E and 3C-P...


Ah the classic 'ive listed the compound on my menu but you're actually paying for a preorder'

At least you got some of the bargain basement prices...
 

Xorkoth

🎨 ARTministrator 🎨
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
55,274
Location
In the mountains
I have only seen reports of TMA-2 and TMA-6. Generally it seems like the reports are much more favorable about TMA-2, with reports on TMA-6 suggesting it is rather uninteresting/vanilla. TMA-2 is actually a DOX, it is DOM with an additional oxygen on the 4 position group (ie, 2,5-dimethoxy-4-methoxyamphetamine), whereas the other TMA series members do not have the 2,4,5 substitution pattern that makes for so many amazing psychedelics (the 2C-X and DOX series).
 

Xorkoth

🎨 ARTministrator 🎨
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
55,274
Location
In the mountains
Yeah, me too. I tried TMA-6 back in 2006, I got given one dose, but I had a lot of tolerance from tripping all the time then, and it was basically threshold and I didn't even have enough of an experience to write a report. I managed to get a few doses of TMA-2 after reading a handful of reports of profound, beautiful experiences. And then I realized that it actually is a DOX, it just happened to be named as a TMA because of when it was synthesized (as an exploration of the TMA series). It is a 2,5-dimethoxy-4-XXX substituted phenethylamine, it's just that it is a TMA because it has 3 methoxy groups. The TMA series is all of the combinations of putting 3 methoxy groups onto the amphetamine skeleton in 3 of the 6 positions.
 

Pfafffed

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
1,085
Wait, I thought that TMA-2 was the amphetamine/DOx version of mescaline? Did I get that wrong?
 

Xorkoth

🎨 ARTministrator 🎨
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
55,274
Location
In the mountains
Yeah, TMA (TMA-1 I suppose) is the amphetamine counterpart of mescaline, 3,4,5-trimethoxyamphetamine. TMA-2 is 2,4,5-trimethoxyamphetamine. It's the 2,4,5 substitution pattern that makes a DOX, and the trimethoxy that makes it a TMA series. So really it's both. TMA-6 is 2,4,6-trimethoxyamphetamine, which is interesting as the 6 position isn't really done much in psychedelics.

I just looked at 2,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine, which is very close to mescaline except that one of the methoxys is moved from 3 to 2, because I was curious. And it appears to be very weak, no real dose was ever worked up to in PIHKAL. But it was found to be a potent potentiator of mescaline.

 

darkstar51474

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Messages
29
I recently have had experience with TMA-2 and enjoyed it thoroughly. i took 25mg, then another 25mg a half hour later. i had crazy body rushes that were more psychadelic then anything. like I could visualize the rushes that would start at my feet and rush up to my brain, pure euphoria. about 2 hours in i ate a point of MDMA andthis seemed to trigger more psychadelic effects. while looking at a fire with my friends, the flames turned into coyotes howling at the moon (super fucking cool). Later on in the night had sex with this chick and the orgasms were aboslutely incredible. Definite aphrodisiac properties, along with spiritual properties if tuned in properly.

Have 100mg still sitting around just waiting for the right time. I have a capsule of 100mg 4-FA and 110mg MDMA, i was contemplating trying that on the 2-3rd hour of 33-50mg of tma-2 sometime soon.
 

Leprechaun

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 12, 2000
Messages
1,574
Location
Vic Australia
Yeah, me too. I tried TMA-6 back in 2006, I got given one dose, but I had a lot of tolerance from tripping all the time then, and it was basically threshold and I didn't even have enough of an experience to write a report. I managed to get a few doses of TMA-2 after reading a handful of reports of profound, beautiful experiences. And then I realized that it actually is a DOX, it just happened to be named as a TMA because of when it was synthesized (as an exploration of the TMA series). It is a 2,5-dimethoxy-4-XXX substituted phenethylamine, it's just that it is a TMA because it has 3 methoxy groups. The TMA series is all of the combinations of putting 3 methoxy groups onto the amphetamine skeleton in 3 of the 6 positions.
You could say, using certain naming conventions that TMA is DOMeO 🤔🙂
 

Leprechaun

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 12, 2000
Messages
1,574
Location
Vic Australia
Excellent question, from what I understand and have read TMA-2 is indeed the best one, though opinions seem to vary on how good it actually is.
TMA-2 is generally the preferred positional isomer. Though TMA-6 has promise when tweaking the attachments at the 2 and 6 position.
There’s more on the tma-6 extensions in the rather big book “The Shulgin Index”
 

Xorkoth

🎨 ARTministrator 🎨
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
55,274
Location
In the mountains
I always thought TMA-6 was interesting because there are very few psychedelics with any substitutions on the 6th position (TMA-6 is 2,4,6-trimethoxyamphetamine). As far as I know, the 2,4,6 pattern it uses is unique among the substances that has floated around this weird corner of human experience that we all have been able to share.

I actually got to try TMA-6 once, but it was during that time where evidently I had a lot of profound DOM experiences I can't remember. :rolleyes: I just remember feeling like it never "arrived" and was generic. But then again so were almost all my trips at the time.

I was a crazy ass 23-24 year old.
 

Leprechaun

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 12, 2000
Messages
1,574
Location
Vic Australia
I always thought TMA-6 was interesting because there are very few psychedelics with any substitutions on the 6th position (TMA-6 is 2,4,6-trimethoxyamphetamine). As far as I know, the 2,4,6 pattern it uses is unique among the substances that has floated around this weird corner of human experience that we all have been able to share.

I actually got to try TMA-6 once, but it was during that time where evidently I had a lot of profound DOM experiences I can't remember. :rolleyes: I just remember feeling like it never "arrived" and was generic. But then again so were almost all my trips at the time.

I was a crazy ass 23-24 year old.

Yeah 23-24 was an interesting time! 🙂 Every year gets better and better.
 

Kaleida

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Sep 6, 2015
Messages
1,496
Theta:

To expand a little bit on the naming conventions and the order things were synthesized in that Xorkoth was talking about, it's really sort of a "yes and no" answer as to whether or not TMA-2 is a DOx molecule, because it's basically that it specifically isn't by name, specifically because it is actually the granddaddy of all DOx molecules. Alexander Shulgin loved mescaline so the amphetamine version, TMA, with the 3,4,5 pattern like mescaline itself was one of his first ideas, and when it turned out to be successful enough one of his next ideas was to try rearranging the three methoxy groups all around the ring which became the TMA-x group, with TMA-2 being the 2,4,5 pattern, and since TMA-2 was the most active and notable of the TMA-x group according to him, he decided to come up with ideas to alter it further from there, one of which was removing the oxygen from the methoxy group on the 4-position so that it was just a 4-methyl instead of a 4-methoxy, which would be named DesOxyMethyl, or DOM, which is to say, the name DOM literally means "TMA-2 with the 4-methoxy replaced with 4-methyl" and the DOx group naming convention in general is derived from DOM switching out the M with whatever letter represents what is in the 4-position instead, so essentially TMA-2 cannot be a DOx because a DOx molecule's name is literally defined by what makes it different from TMA-2, but that is done because TMA-2 is itself the first psychedelic molecule discovered that has the exact same type of molecular pattern as the DOx molecules and therefore it is the prototypical reference of all DOx molecules, and is just as much meaningfully within the same group as the rest of them are.

Incidentally, I love TMA-2. :) We've now taken it three times at 25, 35, and 45 mg, and every experience was distinct and memorable. It's given me a challenging psychedelic emotional headspace comparable to 2C-E, hallucinations comparable to DOB, an empathogenic and stimulating high comparable to MDMA, and some of its heavier visionary effects I can only really more readily compare to indoles like LSD and MPT so far, not to mention the fact that I got briefly out-of-body with an entity interaction while meditating in the later hours of the first time we took it. The last time I attempted to take inventory I decided that it was probably at least one of my tied top favorite phenethyalmines so far, along with 2C-E, though three times is still pretty early into our relationship with it of course. The last time we took it I was slightly put off by the fact that it seemed to make me irritable in conversation, but I think this is more of a problem I'm having and trying to work through with more stimulating drugs in general right now more so than it is a problem with TMA-2 specifically. I spent the rest of the trip obsessively analyzing the behavior because it was like that.... The internal visions were so concrete and corresponding to my thought process about it all that it took me a good while to consider it consciously enough to realize that it wasn't just me using my imagination really, really, really vividly. I very much look forward to using it again, though probably not for a while.
 

Xorkoth

🎨 ARTministrator 🎨
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
55,274
Location
In the mountains
What's the duration like for you with TMA-2, and can you compare the duration to any other DOXs? I really want to jump into this one but it's just hard for me to find the time these days.
 

Kaleida

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Sep 6, 2015
Messages
1,496
Theta:

The duration feels pretty similar to the other DOx molecules we've tried, more so to DOC and DOF than to DOB which lasts a little bit longer; if memory serves, TMA-2, DOC, and DOF all start feeling like they're beginning the (very slow) descent starting more significantly around ten to twelve hours after dosing, whereas DOB has felt like it was still going a bit stronger all the way up to seventeen hours for us before. We feel all of them into the next day too, but for whatever reason we don't have any trouble sleeping on them after this initial phase passes, we just go to bed whenever we get tired, sleep all night, and wake up and keep tripping lightly the next day. We don't really pay that much attention to when the mild fading effect finally seems totally gone anymore, but I'd be confident in saying that we can feel the TMA-2 at least over twenty-four hours, though I'm not sure I could say we definitely feel it as long as any of the other three in that way. In any case, it's still pretty similar to them for us.

I mean, PiHKAL says 8-12 hours for TMA-2 and 12-24 hours for DOC though, for what that's worth. I would say probably don't be surprised if you find it to last shorter than at least the halogenated DOx molecules (can't speak for any others yet aside from TMA-2), but also probably don't take it unless you can efficiently plan or it to possibly last as long as they do or close to it at least.
 

Xorkoth

🎨 ARTministrator 🎨
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
55,274
Location
In the mountains
Heh, I find every chemical longer than almost everyone else. And sleep is particularly disrupted (I have trouble sleeping more and more as I get older, even sober). Like DOC will mess with my sleep the NEXT night sometimes.

Anyway thanks that helps, if it's similar to DOC's duration, that's better than something longer.
 
Top