The Big & Dandy Medication/Supplement Interaction Thread - Part 2

Solipsis

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The Big and Dandy Psychotropic Medications and Supplements Interaction Thread (Part 2)

[IF YOU EVER TOOK SSRI's TOGETHER WITH LSD PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO TAKE THIS POLL]

Link to previous thread

Subthreads:



This is a place to discuss interactions between psychotropic medications (pharmaceuticals such as anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, benzodiazepines, stimulants, et cetera), supplements (piracetam, hydergine, etc.) and psychedelic drugs. We will mostly be dealing with drugs that YOU are prescribed by a doctor and take on a regular basis, not so much with other drugs that you may take for fun ;). Since we get posts about "can I take anti-depressant 'X' with psychedelic 'Y'" on a near-daily basis, this Big & Dandy thread has been created as a place to keep information on these subjects readily available.

Of interest, fairly complete, if a little outdated, check here first:

Antidepressants and Recreational Drugs FAQ

Generally speaking, with regards to "classical" 5-HT2 psychedelics (LSD, mushrooms, etc.) --

  • SSRI's - generally decrease effects; dangerous with DXM and some others
  • Wellbutrin - little or no side effects noted; possibly dangerous with DXM
  • MAOI's - controversial; dangerous with DXM and some others; tread extremely carefully
  • Anti-psychotics - generally decrease effects, not in a pleasant way
  • Benzodiazepines - "soften" effects, reduce anxiety

Please, in the interests of harm reduction DO YOUR RESEARCH before dosing ... that means check this thread, check Erowid, check the FAQ linked above. Some of these combinations are dangerous. Some will drastically potentiate the trip and change it's character. Some will kill the trip and make it not worth your time or money in the first place. It all depends on the drugs you are taking, your own chemistry, and the psychedelic in question.

Also, please check these resources, and use the search engine, *BEFORE* posting. We get these questions on nearly a daily basis!

Thank you all!
--SomeKindaLove




Starting way back on 9/3/2004 ...

Preface: TFSE sucks and wouldn't handle the phrase 5-meo-amt anyway. I've read and researched widely on this, including the all inclusive 5-meo-amt thread here. Help a kid out. I just wanna know whether I should start being dissappointed now, or wait until Friday when we are supposed to take it and I find out it doesn't work.

Obviously IAP can't be used by anyone on an anti-depressant that has a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, but what about some of the others?

I am having a hard time finding conclusive researchon this.

As I understand it, the TC combos don't work.

What about 5-MEOs?

I have some 5-MEO-AMT and I'm really looking forward to checking it out.

But I am on bupropion, venlafaxine, and topirimate (Welbutrin, Effexor, Topomax)

Will it work? Would a slightly higher dose (say 10mgs instead of 5) make it work?

Or am I stuck with this whacky wierd RC that will be making excellent birthday and holiday presents for the next year or so?

Some posts from the end of the previous thread:

So I've heard. Paxil seems to be the worst SSRI ever made; I wonder why it's fairly commonly scripted. As with all of them, long tapers.

I've recently joined the club with escitalopram after years of resisting SSRIs because of all the things I've read on here, but I should have started long ago. I do feel better, and an SSRI 'addiction' is a hell of a lot better than a benzo addiction.

On one hand empathogens are going to be worthless, psychedelics seriously attenuated, but comes with some serotonergic neuroprotection. No oxidized dopamine getting in them 5-HT neurons.
I myself don't have a total grasp on all of them and their variations, but they are different molecules with different receptor/transporter affinities, which makes up the differences in their effects.

Example being that Fluvoxamine is the most selective of all the SSRI's, it goes for only the SERT with negligible NET or DAT affinity. For some reason it's also known as being one prone to adverse effects (violent outbursts in particular).
Paxil has notoriously been known to be the 'strongest', most effective SSRI, but with all the side effects that go with it, namely a high risk of suicide when starting on it and horrific withdrawal when coming off of it.

I was on venlafaxine (effexor) years ago, but after a week at the lowest dose I stopped because it made me so stimulated. Like a really psychotomimetic amphetamine. I would get wired and watch the X-files all night; at first it was fun, but it wore me down. I dropped it and never went back to reuptake inhibitors, especially because at that point in time I was tripping about every 2 weeks and didn't want to impede my adventures. After that I knew I never wanted to permanently be on a substance with a phenethylamine backbone (venlafaxine, bupropion being the main ones).

Looking at it now (with how little I trip), being on an SSRI with little NET affinity is actually quite good in me. Citalopram seemed to be a good choice for being a straight SSRI with good effectiveness, and few side effects. Doc pushed the on-patent single (S-) enantiomer; escitalopram. Being on insurance I figured what the hell, could only be more selective with less stuff for my body to process.

As to your initial question on comparative efficacy/side effects; yeah they're all different but it's much too complex an issue to be summed up in a table. You do have to go reading; affinities and adverse effect frequencies give a basic understanding of which has a tendency for what.

I thought mirtazapine was going to be my panacea from anxiety (that was not a benzo), but man, what an antihistamine effect. Imagine taking 10 benadryl; that was it. Mirtazapine knocks you out flat and makes you helplessly delirious all through the next day, until you take another pill to get knocked out again. I was FUBAR. Tricyclines and tetracyclines are for severe cases; their affinities for so many receptors (non-selectivity) makes the side effects unbearable.
SNRI's or DARI's like bupropion are better for depression in people who aren't edgy to start with. I'm a skin and bones wire-case; always have been. Anything that enhances stimulation or inhibits apetite is no bueno for me, but good for many others.

So far SSRI's to me are something you don't feel; it's just in the background.
Have you any info (scientific or anecdotal) on comparative SSRI efficacy / side-effects? I'm curious, but not so curious as to spend time researching it myself.
Is LSD contraindicated with Clonidine? I was prescribed the stuff for insomnia for some reason and never really took it, but I'm thinking if i want to sleep after my upcoming trip I might take some. Now, as far as I can tell there shouldn't be a problem, Clonidine being just a pretty mild alpha-2 agonist, but I want to be extra cautious.
Does anyone know if there is any problem with mixing Amitriptyline with 25I-NBOMe?
Someone asked me that the other day and I didnt have a clue.
I'm on zyprexa 7.5 mg, how much will that dampen mdmas effects
 

llamsr

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Amitriptyline and Mushrooms

So I just started talking amitriptyline for migraines at a low dosage (25mg), and I have read online that TCAs like Amitriptyline potentiate the affects of mushrooms. I was wondering if, even though at this low dose, it will create a greater affect in the shrooms, and if so, how much greater? Also, by "just started", I mean two days ago was my first dosage, and before that, I was taking an SNRI, also at a low dose. I was thinking of tripping on Saturday, so would you recommend me stopping the Amitriptyline, taking a lower dosage or do you think I'll be fine?

Thanks in advance.

P.S. For the SNRI, I'v been off it for a while, so it should not affect the trip this weekend.
 

casualuser

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From what I've read, there isn't any major problems that could occur. If you were taking very high doses of both serotonin syndrome might be a possibility but I don't think you would need to worry about that. Some people say it potentates the shrooms others say it can lessen the effects(mainly with the newer ssri's though). I'd say you'd be okay continuing to take it but I'd also advise doing some googling yourself and checking back here before saturday as other may have more insight than I can provide.
 

Solipsis

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If taken for antidepressant properties most people would advise against stopping / discontinuing Amitriptyline, but if it is only for headaches I don't see such a big issue with that. It does have anticholinergic properties which could be a problem with tripping. Also potentiation of mushrooms can be unpredictable quantitatively which also makes it anything but ideal.

If you do stop taking it, I would give it some time to check how you respond to stopping it, but if it was only 2 days that makes it less likely to cause a syndrome. Still if you decide that, I would err on the safe side and give it some time before you go and trip.

Also, mushrooms can help with cluster headaches, not sure about migraines... perhaps it brings you some relief.

Keeping the dose of mushrooms to a limit this time also seems kind of prudent.
 

llamsr

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Alright, thanks :D Even with the small dosage, I'v decided to stop three days in advance, because I'm worried that it will either potentiate the affects too much, or completely nullifies the shrooms. I'v tripped a lot, even when on my SNRI (2ci, DXM), and when not (shrooms, acid) so, I'm gunna start at a half eighth, and possibly move up depending on the affects.

I'v done a lot of googling, and can't find a consensus on if it enhances the affects or reduces them, so I'v decided to play it safe and just keep off it for 3 days.
 

Solipsis

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Cool :) now that you made a decision this thread seems answered and basically done, although others are welcome to chime in. However I shall merge this into the medications interaction thread so that people can search the thread and retrieve info centrally.
 

sonicwhite

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Is it possible to trip while on "psych meds"?

Since I have a psychotic disorder and am on psych meds. Can I still trip mushrooms or do some acid....I have had shrooms before and I have never had LSD but, I would really like to try it. I just don't want to totally Jack up my head to the point of no return...
 

rickolasnice

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What psychotic disorder do you have?

It's tricky. Some people will say it helped their mental problems, others will say it caused them..

Is it really worth the risk?
 

sonicwhite

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They do not know what I have....They say to szaffective to cannibas psychotic disorder.....If I smoke weed It throws me into panic attack that I think I'M DEAD AND THATS PSYCHOTIC.
 

rickolasnice

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Well.. I'd probably stay away from psychedelics then (although cannabis makes me paranoid as fuck and i can still take psychedelics).. Like i said: Is it worth the risk?

Why not go for a shorter lasting, easy psychedelic like low dose 2c-b, if you are determined.. And have a few benzodiazepines / anti-psychotics at hand? Oh wait you said you are already on meds.. what meds you taking?
 

Transform

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Antipsychotic medications will completely or almost completely block the effects of psychedelic drugs.

Given your response to cannabis, I would advise you strongly against taking psychedelics. You would probably be just fine but there is a risk of psychotic breaks when using such powerful substances and we know that this is significantly higher in those with preexisting conditions.
 

sonicwhite

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I'm on a benzo prn....an ssri...And a AP.... Plus mood stabilizer.... If there are less psychadelic drugs that are less potent then ya I would do that.
 

rickolasnice

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Like Transform said.. Anti-Psychotics will pretty much block the affects of psychedelics.. And I would strongly recommend to NOT stop taking your medication.. leave the psychedelics alone.. they're over-rated anyway :p
 

sonicwhite

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Kpin zoloft gabapentin....risperdal....depakote.

And D.A.R.E. say's they try to intice you!
 
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PowerFarts

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I have proven that Strattera and 5-meo-mipt didn't kill me, I took pre strattera 25mgs, I tested 10mgs, then boosted up to 15mgs, no adverse affects other than a
carpal tunnel type feeling in my right arm, probably from jerkin' off while mousing with my right hand.

Going to be done with the strattera and now taking wellbutrin, nice to know I can take psychedelics.
But how would wellbutrin mix with 5-meo-mipt?
 

Abject

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Does anyone have any experience with Agomelatine?
Wondering if it has any adverse reactions to MDMA/stims
 

PowerFarts

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Now, I don't know if anyone knows the answer or has experience, but wellbutrin can in some people raise the seizure threshold and 25i nbome can rarely cause seizures in some people, but what about both of them at once? I can find absolutely NO info on the net about this combo.

And about 5 meo mipt, is that OK with wellbutrin?

I would like to state that 30-40mg ethylphenidate had no adverse reactions when took it with wellbutrin (300mg/day).
 

Transform

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There's no research and no precedent for the combination. Even if there would there wouldn't be an amount that was safe and an amount that wasn't. The more of each you take, the more the dice are loaded in favour of a hospital trip. Low doses will probably be fine but who really knows?
 
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