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The Big & Dandy MDAI Thread: Second Dose

Achten

Bluelighter
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Jun 19, 2011
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I'm male, 85kg, 27 yo. My GF is 55kg, 20yo.

I dropped 140mg on NYE, she did 105mg.

It was her first real psychedelic experience (apart from 8mg 2C-D once).
She loved it, obviously. We did a Hammam ritual at home, then had sex, and then talked for a few hours while watching fireworks.
She described every sensory input as more intense, more beautiful, ... . She was VERY horny too, and multiple times she asked me to stop during sex, because she didn't want to come yet. Now she knows how I feel most of the time ;).
She also mentioned feeling a bit "drunk", ie light-headed and off-balance, and generally very "light". She also feels cold most of the time. I can put the heating on 25°C and she'd still grab a blanket. I can only imagine her body temperature went up because we were naked most of the time without a blanket.
Honest conversations about our relationship and where we want it to go were possible without anxiety or fear.
She is a somewhat "stressed" person, and for the first time now she was "at ease", she could enjoy "being in the moment" rather then always thinking about the next thing to do. A marvellous afterglow helped with that too. 3days later and she's still more at ease, not so stressed about daily life.

I dropped MDAI before, with friends, which was always a nice experience, but I'm definetly keeping my stash now for me and my GF. This is truly therapeutical.
 

cannibalsnail

Bluelighter
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MDMA causes a comedown because the serotonergic toxicity induces a shutting down of adjacent neurones to protect your brain as well as inhibiting enzymes involved in producing serotonin. This does not occur with MDAI hence reduced comedown.
 

cannibalsnail

Bluelighter
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Like you said you didn't want it to get complicated. No one I know has ever had a comedown from MDAI.

I can explain it on a lower level if you want.
 

Morkin

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For the record, I found (100mgs orally in water, empty stomach) of MDAI very slightly empathogenic & slightly stimulating. No-where near as good as MDMA, MDA, 6-APB, 5-APB.
 

Solipsis

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Unsurprising for it is a pretty low dose. Maybe not for the compounds you are comparing to, but it is for MDAI.

Also I don't think it was ever claimed to be stimulating or similar to MDMA or close relatives.

Comedowns from what I can tell seem to be more apparent from catecholamine depletion and SERT rape. With serotonin depletion it seems to take longer to manifest as mental health symptoms, but I have this feeling that when you do feel it your problems can be very chronic.
 

Morkin

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Comedowns from what I can tell seem to be more apparent from catecholamine depletion and SERT rape. With serotonin depletion it seems to take longer to manifest as mental health symptoms, but I have this feeling that when you do feel it your problems can be very chronic.
Could you please translate for the layman (i.e. me). I have little chemistry background. Cheers.

And yes, comparing MDAI to the other stuff might seem uncharitable, but I'm just lumping it in with other phenethylamines.

What oral doses tend to be effective? 200mgs?
 

Solipsis

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Well I don't know how many types of serotonin depletion there are because it is stored in different places e.g. vesicles, mitochondria, maybe the cytosol (that is probably more of a medium) but it is just my observation that drugs with differing actions have different tendencies to produce comedowns, and maybe different kinds of comedowns. In a minute I will also venture the guess that there are some more complex kinetics at work that show the transience of acute aftereffects to be a bad indication for chronic aftereffects.

To me it felt like MDAI together with dopamine/norepinephrin releasers resembled MDMA but even with seriously increased dosage there is some quality to MDMA that is missing with purely releasing mimics. Even considerably more than reuptake inhibition (which doesn't necessarily seems to cause disastrous symptoms - for example I certainly don't find MPH to be more hardcore than amphetamine, both in terms of effect as well as aftereffect) my inference is that this is the way MDMA "rapes" SERT that produces both that finishing touch of magic as well as a harsh comedown when increasing dose or frequency past some point.

For the laymen: SERT is the serotonin transporter that facilitates reuptake (recycling) of serotonin into the presynaptic neuron. By rape I mean that MDMA reverses the action of SERT to pump out serotonin. So the very system that is supposed to keep levels in check a bit is abused to help dump serotonin stores. AFAIK, MDAI doesn't do this to SERT... and it is an example of how MDAI does not simply have the pure and isolated serotonergic effect of MDMA.

MDMA shows its potential to cause a comedown overtly IME, especially when used beyond the responsible...
Other drugs or combinations might mimic MDMA but lack some magic, and they *might* also lack *some* of the comedown or chronic aftereffects.

With MDAI in my opinion it doesn't feel like the acute after effects are proportionate to how much serotonin was released, but as a rule I never trust in drugs to be a wonder compound that lets you get away with it. That is why I said those things about the sneaky form of chronic effects. I *think* that even if levels are restored quickly to some point I would absolutely not be surprised if they don't reach the full 100% anymore and this effect may add up until you start to realize that.

Furthermore serotonin depletion without depletion of the catecholamines (such as dopamine and NE) seems to have more subtle direct symptoms like feeling a bit emotionally hollow but often not actively shitty and demotivated. Symptoms of multiple monoamine depletion is probably 'synergistic'.

We must remember that it can be very hard to connect subjectively experienced symptoms to pharmacology, most importantly that a crash does not prove neurotoxicity (even if it does correlate to depletion) and neurotoxic effects don't always have to be directly apparent (which is why I was personally very worried about 4-BMC making its appearance on the RC scene).

And please don't confuse my theories with fact, I try as best as possible to indicate which I offer.
 
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Solipsis

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Hahaha, raincheck.

Anyway I liked MDAI, though the type that is sitting in my stash 'cabinet' is the brown product contaminated with safrole. With dextroamphetamine it felt relatively clean in effect but it is not the sort of thing I would want for a special 'balls to the wall' tripping and/or clubbing occasion. Neither do I feel like I would fiend on it (compulsion seems to be more of a dopamine thing), but I doubt I want to take MDAI again if I don't want to take other stims to go with it. It does feel gentle, sensitive and smooth but that isn't that much to go on by itself.
To me AMT feels kindred, distinctly serotonergic and I tend to fall asleep on both while in pleasurable trance.

AMT is actually quite a special drug IMO because it is a great and long experience but the aftereffects are mostly glowing rather than crashy. I must research its pharmacology some more, I think it was gradual non-selective serotonin reuptake inhibition that makes it special, and next to it there is some moderate and tempered serotonin release. Not sure about other effects, there must be some dopaminergic... but thats another topic with another thread.

Uhhhh yeah I feel ya on the sleep deprivation, right now I am not sure if I should sustain a bad rhythm or pull an all-nighter.

 

Jesusgreen

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^ aMT is my all time favourite drug so I'd personally say you're missing out but I'm okay with longer trips - if you find them tiring then it might not be all that enjoyable to you, particularly as the trip drags on, since aMT makes me very tired towards the end especially. You could try vaporising it though, it gets rid of the nasty come up nausea that I get with oral freebase, makes for even more heightened pleasure, a significantly lower dose is required, and best of all for me the effects only last about 6-7 hours rather than the 16 hours from an oral dose :D

That said, it's interesting that we're talking about it here in the MDAI thread, because while vaporising aMT works for the purpose of reducing the duration, I always wondered about creating a similar experience that was also a lot shorter than oral aMT using a combo. My idea was always a 4-substituted tryptamine (i.e. Psilocin, Psilocybin, 4-HO-MiPT, 4-AcO-DMT etc) along with MDAI/IAP/similar SSRA - aMT always reminded me somewhat of 4-sub tryps and DMT but at a lower dose and with the lovely serotonin warmth poured on top, so I feel a combo like this might be fairly close to its effects (though of course unique).
 

Solipsis

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That makes so much sense, especially when reading reports of people getting jaw clenches and eye-wiggles. Wouldn't really fit the profile of as selective a serotonin releaser as MDAI *should* be.
What makes you say that? That MDAI is selective doesn't mean it is inactive peripherally. And bruxism comes from certain effects on serotonin levels but it may not be exclusive to that, considering dopaminergic drugs can also cause quite a lot of it.
Virtually all of that also applies to the nystagmus.
I just think they are side-effects that reflect large changes (mostly drops) in serotonin levels, maybe in that sense similar yet opposite to brain zaps.

I understand your apprehension regarding AMT but it was discussed (probably in the main thread) that serotonin depletion is relatively less serious in total compared to MDMA despite the longer duration. I'm not quite sure how this was compared but it seems credible.

Thanks for keeping an eye on being on topic, together with me.
 

Morkin

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I also adore AMT.

My g-friend reminded me of doing 250mg MDAI & that it was warm and open - but the doses aren't economical (for my wallet, anyway). After this reminder, I reverse my decision to give up on MDAI.

aaah... like a pig in a candy store :)

Thanks for the education.
 

David the Chansey

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aMT is life changing. I have always had anxiety about death but now I can think about it peacefully, and generally most things that made me anxious or worried before are not as much of a problem anymore. I'd say it's had the biggest impact on my life by far of all drugs I've tried. That being said, I haven't tried LSD, DMT, or shrooms (yet) but after reading claims that aMT is like LSD + MDMA, my expectations of LSD can't be far off.

MDAI requires at least 250mg for me to have a worthwhile experience, and that's only if I add a little mpa/eth into the mix. 6-APB is far superior, requiring 150mg, but my last roll at 200mg was incredible.
 

Morkin

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aMT is life changing.
From my own entirely personal experience, I completely disagree. AMT is just an interesting and pleasant chemical. It has not changed my life, except to add pleasure to it. However, if you're at a point in life where this might somehow help, I'm sure that can happen. Just wanted to counter-balance the jejune "the trips really changed me" talk I read/hear.
 

David the Chansey

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From my own entirely personal experience, I completely disagree. AMT is just an interesting and pleasant chemical. It has not changed my life, except to add pleasure to it. However, if you're at a point in life where this might somehow help, I'm sure that can happen. Just wanted to counter-balance the jejune "the trips really changed me" talk I read/hear.
What doses did you try?
 

Incunabula

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Thanks guys. I was just begining to wonder if it wasn't rather dpoamine that caused bruxism with MDMA, and not serotonin.

I guess we an rule that out.
 

cannibalsnail

Bluelighter
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I've probably used this substance more than most. Gone through over 15 grams with friends over three last year
I will write up a comprehensive trip report.

And as for bruxism. SE causes muscle tension and NE drives movement. Together they cause a sensation of unresolved muscle potential and I suspect since most users are also talking a lot then it is expressed through the jaw. Clenching your fists over and over will reduce the desire to Gurn.
 
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