• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ

Lysergamides The Big & Dandy LSM-775 (Lysergic Acid Morpholide) Thread

Bigazznugz said:
Seems like making this is a waste of good lsd. The price is really high for something you need almost mg or more for a dose. I don't know why they would make this instead of, pro lad, lsb, or lsp ( which might not be much better). I could only imagine how bad the nausea would have been from ingesting that much material.
Click to expand...

Xorkoth wrote:
" It's not a waste of LSD, it doesn't require LSD to make (I assume not anyway). But yeah, I'd have preferred any of those 3 you mentioned too (especially PRO-LAD). Still it's exciting someone is making all these lysergamides that only existed as a sparkle in our eyes before.
It's not a waste of LSD, it doesn't require LSD to make (I assume not anyway). But yeah, I'd have preferred any of those 3 you mentioned too (especially PRO-LAD). Still it's exciting someone is making all these lysergamides that only existed as a sparkle in our eyes before."


LSD is perfect and I am not going to pretend it's going to anything like as good for the majority but it's something different to LSD makes it interesting - 1P-LSD/LSD are very available if people want those. I am not really convinced nausea is related to dose - 1mg is still tiny by most standards

I think Xorkoth is right LSD isn't the staring material although the precusor very likely could make LSD instead. I would so love to see PRO-LAD but I think it is an order of magnitude harder to pull off - we never thought we would see these lysergamides even come to market so it's still a wonder
 
Last edited:
The $ concern is valid in that ergoline precursors are (relatively) much harder to get, and much more expensive in bulk, than... well, pretty much any other drug precursor. Also lysergamide chemistry is tedious and difficult--it requires significantly more expertise, time, and equipment, than the simple phenethylamines, tryptamines, artlcyclohexylamines, etc. there's a reason this stuff doesn't get pumped out of China like everything else.

Due to all this, given that there is always finite precursor, time, and manpower, it would make more sense economically to go for an equipotent analogue rather than something which requires ten times the dose.

I'm glad that it was made, because it's so different. But I'm sure it was mostly made only because there were previously disputed accounts over its potency--though it was known to be less potent, there was significant variation in its reported strength.

I've also been told that the lab which produces this stuff won't be
able to distribute future batches at the current (relatively fair) price point.
 
LSB (R-sec-butyl) and LSP (pentan-3-amine) are similar in potency to LSD. MIPLA is 1/2 the potency.
 
InterestingFACT said:
The $ concern is valid in that ergoline precursors are (relatively) much harder to get, and much more expensive in bulk, than... well, pretty much any other drug precursor. Also lysergamide chemistry is tedious and difficult--it requires significantly more expertise, time, and equipment, than the simple phenethylamines, tryptamines, artlcyclohexylamines, etc. there's a reason this stuff doesn't get pumped out of China like everything else.

Due to all this, given that there is always finite precursor, time, and manpower, it would make more sense economically to go for an equipotent analogue rather than something which requires ten times the dose.

I'm glad that it was made, because it's so different. But I'm sure it was mostly made only because there were previously disputed accounts over its potency--though it was known to be less potent, there was significant variation in its reported strength.

I've also been told that the lab which produces this stuff won't be
able to distribute future batches at the current (relatively fair) price point.
Click to expand...

Precusor price is one thing but if x is wildy more complex and expensive than y in production, final dosage might not be the deciding factor; presume the decision to make it must have be viable and from production to end sale there's finiancial leeway somehow but I don't know - seems you have more info than me - if this is a one off affordable run I am glad I tried an obscure item. Your proposition of the morpholide undergoing metabolism, (effectively potenitally being a prodrug) I hadn't considered. No idea of the feasability of this but an interesting speculation at least.
 
The morpholide undergoing metabolism leading to what, ergine? I can't think of anything related that would be so potent that the minor metabolism leading to it would yield an active metabolite dose...?
 
If they have made eth lad which is the hardest synth of the 4 lysergamine out now, I don't think that prolad would be more difficult to make. Whether it's worth the cost is a whole another story.
I think the lab made it to see if the from switch the diethyamide "antlers" to a morpholide ring affected potency. It seems alot of shulgin notes on activity levels are a little off. Al lad is a little less potent than shulgin reported and a few others as well.
 
I don't think it was just for the purpose to discover if "the switch from diethyamide "antlers" to a morpholide ring affected potency" - because the quantities available far exceed what would have been needed to answer that question. But maybe they want the whole world to see the answer to that question. Or maybe it's just fun to make something new and unleash it on the world! Anyways, I'll bet they're loosing money on this one so big kudos for doing it.

I hope we see PRO-LAD, it seems one of the more intriguing/promising ones on the horizon. I'm also cheering for flouro-eth-lad.
 
I love AL-LAD and 1P-LSD and it's hard not to just spend the money on those or LSD. But this could be interesting. I might grab 10 mg and wait and see what other people say about it, I didn't like ETH-LAD so I am not going to rush out and grab a lot no matter how limited edition it may be. I don't want to miss out like I did with LSZ though either. There is such limited info for a drug that's available.
 
perpetualdawn said:
I don't think it was just for the purpose to discover if "the switch from diethyamide "antlers" to a morpholide ring affected potency" - because the quantities available far exceed what would have been needed to answer that question. But maybe they want the whole world to see the answer to that question. Or maybe it's just fun to make something new and unleash it on the world! Anyways, I'll bet they're loosing money on this one so big kudos for doing it.

I hope we see PRO-LAD, it seems one of the more intriguing/promising ones on the horizon. I'm also cheering for flouro-eth-lad.
Click to expand...


well if eth lad took nearly a year to make enough stock to last for a little whilee, i would figure flouro-eth-lad would be even more difficult then eth lad itself which is a super hard synthesis. i wonder if the flouro would make it more potent? i kinda doubt that though seems the more stuff you add to or change the lsd structure you lose potency.
 
re the prodrug idea. I have spoken to someone whos done LSA/ergine/MGS and LSM-775 and said they prefered the later. I take this to mean they weren't either the same or entirely different. could be it's not a prodrug but simply has a similar range of affinities.
 
How would I measure this out safely if I want to take 1 milligram dose (or less)? I have a milligram scale but it's a cheap one that works well for 10mg+. I have 50mg of material. Liquid measurement or? I don't know if it would be stable in solution though? I think that is not enough material to lay a sheet of 500 microgram doses would it be? Cause with blotter don't you need to lay like 10 sheets in one go for it to be accurate? As you can see I am confused since I've never had a powder so potent. Almost worried I could absorb a big dose on my skin or from breathing it if I'm not careful.
 
I wouldn't keep it suspended in solution any longer than you have to.

If you don't have any desire to split doses (ie. use 0.75mg, assuming you make .5mg unit doses) you can dissolve in methanol and use a dropper or pipette to lay on a substrate (blotter if you like, or sugar cubes, or anything). The only disadvantage is that the material will not dissolve evenly over each unit of substrate you lay it on, so you can't reliably split doses in a smaller fashion than your initial chosen unit.

Another option is to dissolve it in de-ionized water, create appropriately dosed icecubes, store in freezer. Or just dissolve in methanol, measure out a few doses using a pipette or dropper, and evaporate the rest of the methanol to recover the solid product.

I wouldn't try to lay blotter with such a small volume--even with larger quantities it's still a delicate technique that takes practice and involved waste.

Don't worry about absorbing it through your skin--you can't. It's not possible even with LSD in insanely large quantities. It's a complete myth. However, you can easily absorb product through any mucus membranes that it comes into contact with. This means do not touch your mouth or eyes before washing your hands.

But this stuff just isn't that potent. Sure, it's still a lot more potent than most people are used to handling, but it's an order of magnitude less so than LSD--more in line with DOx or NBOMEs. Meaning, don't spill, and don't leave anything unaccounted for, and obviously don't eyeball. But you don't have to be paranoid about a breathmask and goggles or anything.

edit: test your scale's accuracy--most common pocket scales are accurate to somewhere +/- 4mg. Some are better. I wouldn't use less than ~20mg of product, but you don't necessarily need to weigh and dissolve all 50mg. (Unless by "accurate to" you're saying that you have a scale that only displays to 0.01 grams ie 10mg. In which case, you simply can't use it for something like this--buy another scale: there are cheap pocket scales that read to the single milligram or a tenth of a milligram, and which can generally be trusted within a few mg +/- displayed reading... so long as you check the calibration to ensure that this is the case.)
 
Thanks for the info. I'm used to making 1mg etizolam doses. I go about this by weighing out 50mg, dissolving that in 50mL of 99% isopropyl alcohol, and then dosing 1mL with a pipette onto healthy buckwheat crackers and then storing after the alcohol evaporates. It has proven to be very accurate (and etizolam is tasteless too, so I get a healthy dose of magnesium with every unhealthy dose of sedation). I'd want to keep my stuff in the freezer for long term storage though because I won't power through doses like I do with etizolam.

Do you know if LSM would dissolve in this isopropanol I'm used to using? I'm guessing it would for sure, I am just not into chemistry too much. I will have to think of an appropriate substrate, that can be frozen, but if I have to move then the ice cubes would melt so that could be an issue. I could definitely do this with sugar cubes, but perhaps I could contrive of something more suitable for long term storage.

I could weigh 10 milligrams and dissolve in 10mL of isopropanol, then dose one substrate with a mL, then let the rest evaporate and just take back my material. Maybe something like that. Will trip on eth-lad next time and think about this. I could even try to dose larger-sized capsules that are fastened vertically, and allow the solvent to slowly evaporate leaving LSM residue on the capsules.
 
Last edited:
Is leaving it in ethanol solution really that bad? I've had 1p-LSD suspended in everclear for over a year now with no noticeable loss of potency or discoloration - so, I hope not lol!
 
Alcohol, whether ethanol or isopropanol will act as an anti-oxidant. It's best to use anhydrous alcohol as well or as high of a concentration as possible, water is likely to cause oxidization. If kept in a browned glass container and away from UV light, I would assume it should last quite a long time. Due to the potency, if you trust your vendors weight accuracy then I would suggest putting it all into solution if you don't have a microgram scale, a mg scale can have a +/-2 mg error rate usually and 10mg scales can be off by more than that. Measuring in liquid volume is simple and effective.
 
I have a small, thick HDPE container with a pippette that used to contain GBL. That should be good, and knowing the mass isn't a problem. Could use isopropanol 99%.

But I heard LSM degrades in solution, do they mean when it's just in water? And wouldn't freezing help keep the LSM alive and well too?
 
Dissolving anything in solution means increasing reactive rate--I'm not sure if any actual tests of LSD degradation have occurred in alcohols, but would still expect it to occur under similar circumstances to LSD in (de-ionized) water. Alcohol is a protic solvent.

In any case, degradation of LSD itself isn't nearly as much of an issue as most people think, except in the case of chlorine in tap water.

I don't think LSM degradation has ever actually been tested--at least not as far as I'm aware. I would expect it to be fairly labile, however.

Leaving it in solution is *probably* fine--it's just hard to say for how long, and whether loss of potency might eventually become noticeable. Especially since this is something of a novelty item and might not last forever, I imagine many people want to keep some tucked away for possibly many years. It doesn't make much sense to me to do this in solution--I wouldn't store any chemical that way with such a long-term perspective, even the very stable ones like phenylethylamines.

But this is maybe more about an abundance of caution. Chances are--unless your solution is contaminated with something reactive, or unless you store it very badly ie. Excessive exposure to light and heat--you'd still have an active product even years later. Though who knows how much would be lost along the way. Freezing it--or even just keeping it cold ie. In the fridge--likely reduces the risks significantly.
 
Agreed with IntFACTs post..

Where do you get that alcohols will act as anti-oxidant, liga? How?

As for 1P, no reason I can think of why it would be any different from normal liquid LSD - often in ethanol solution or ethanol-in-water such as vodka..

On another forum was said:

According to some of the papers I’d read, a concentrated solution containing LSM will remain active for a week at most, before breaking down into its inactive epimer, iso-LSD.
Click to expand...

Of course do your own fact checking instead of assuming this, I would personally start at the isomer design website and find their reference sources on the LSM page they should have.
 
The ring constrained modification here is on the amide, the methyl substitution for longer alkyl / aliphatic chains is on the 6 position...

The effects of lysergamides can be very similar, but the more analogues we see being tried and compared, I think will start giving users an idea such as that messing with the 6-pos chain may dial up or down the intensity of the psychedelia which may be partially a pharmadynamics thing and partially just from different kinetics or resistance to metabolism at that position...

While messing with the amide (LSZ, LSM, LSP, LSB) may cause the action to be more qualitatively different and more or less of a promiscuous ligand, while hardly affecting kinetics.. So perhaps mainly pharmacodynamics.

Putting amides on the indole 1-pos (like 1P-LSD or ALD-52) may be primarily or solely a kinetics thing since they are considered pro-drugs.

Not saying this is ALL necessarily true fact, but it is my suspicion and an example of what we may find as fact or opinion after trying them and analyzing the metabolism and binding profiles... that it very well matters where we modify the structure.
Just saying that each modification just creates a new unique drug while true is a simplification and cop-out. It can have very varying significance, sometimes very little at all which is excellent if you want a legal clone.
 
Has all interest in this particular chemical died off? I'm always interested in any new information regarding various lysergamides. Though some of the early trip reports don't sound super promising, I thought there might be a bit more interest/use of this than there seems to be.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top