The Big & Dandy IAP / 5-APDI Thread

Jesusgreen

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^ Yep, you're right there. I would certainly not advise anyone doing what I did tonight, it was a silly mistake, but thankfully I've had a good night, just means it's going to be a long time before I take any serotonergics again. I'm even considering waiting until New Years.

Edit: Also, it's worth mentioning that although there is evidence to suggest these combinations would not exert neurotoxicity through the same means as MDMA, that doesn't prove that they're non-neurotoxic, and as always when combining strong stimulants caution should be advised, along with breaks - at the very least to allow levels of serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine to replenish after heavy use. :)
 
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YaniCZka

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Therefore combining MDAI/IAP with Amphetamine WILL be neurotoxic. However combining it with 4-FA, 2-FMA, MPA, Mephedrone, Cathinone or any other dopamine releasing agent will not be neurotoxic.
Wow, that is great news - I can imagine all those substances will feel much better with some added seretonin :D But even if there is no added neurotoxicity, its gonna dry seretoin quite a lot, right?
 

David the Chansey

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I wouldn't exactly call some of those safe, despite having low neurotoxicity, after skimming some of their wikipedia pages.
 

David the Chansey

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People need to stop combining SRAs with DRIs. There are reasons it doesn't feel good.

A. 5HT2A upregulates D2. DRIs increase dopamine irrespectively, releasers tend to release far less dopamine in D2 populated regions of the brain. This is the main reason why drugs like MDPV and Ritalin are more paranoia inducing than Amphetamine or Meth. With releasers dopamine rises unselectively and because D2 is upregulated this compounds the paranoid feelings.

B. 5HT2A + 5HT2C + 5HT6 inhibit dopamine release. Releasing agents release dopamine anyway but if endogenous release is limited by activation of these receptors then reuptake inhibitors are less effective.

C. 5HT1A inhibits norepinephrine release. See above.

And contrary to popular belief SRA + DRA (excluding Amophetamine and Methamphetamine) is not neurotoxic. This study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1726189 only combined MDAI with Amphetamine.

MDMA style neurotoxicity is caused by A. The production of Alpha-Methyl-Dopamine (a byproduct of MDMA/MDA/Amp/Meth Exclusively) and B. elavated cranial temperature (caused by massive serotonin release). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9128836

Therefore combining MDAI/IAP with Amphetamine WILL be neurotoxic. However combining it with 4-FA, 2-FMA, MPA, Mephedrone, Cathinone or any other dopamine releasing agent will not be neurotoxic.
After reading that link, I was under the impression that MDAI + DRIs were non-neurotoxic, and MDAI + DRAs are neurotoxic. Please enlighten me if I am wrong, it is late and I am tired haha.
 

cannibalsnail

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MDAI + Meth/Amphetamine is neurotoxic.

MDAI + Anything else isn't.

According to current research anyway.
 

ebola?

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After reading that link, I was under the impression that MDAI + DRIs were non-neurotoxic, and MDAI + DRAs are neurotoxic. Please enlighten me if I am wrong, it is late and I am tired haha.
Well, the main study confirming such used a DRI with with limited overall efficacy in increasing dopamine (GBR-12935, IIRC). There are are thus some limitations in generalizability to methylphenidate, MDPV, etc.

ebola
 

David the Chansey

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So (excluding limitations of research) are MDAI + DRAs (excluding [meth]amphetamine) and MDAI + DRIs both non-neurotoxic? Or just one of them? Thanks.
 

Jesusgreen

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So (excluding limitations of research) are MDAI + DRAs (excluding [meth]amphetamine) and MDAI + DRIs both non-neurotoxic? Or just one of them? Thanks.
^ I think the point ebola was rightfully trying to make is that we simply don't know for sure at the moment. The evidence suggests MDAI + DRIs should be non-neurotoxic, but this is only based on the limit knowledge we have right now, and we may discover this to be untrue in the future.

As with any case of there being limited knowledge on the subject I'd advise caution as always. Treat it like it is neurotoxic even if the science points to that not being true imo - avoid taking it too often, repeated redoses, etc, and you should be fine :)
 

David the Chansey

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Thanks. I'm thinking of just trying MDAI on its own now, like I used to. Would adding a dopamine agonist just increase alertness etc.? Because I'd happily rather avoid the increased heart rate and urge to redose related to dopamine agonists.

Just realised I've gone off topic, sorry. How does IAP compare to MDAI? I find MDAI urges me to talk to people, and enhances music pretty well. At high doses ~250mg I'd get eye wobbles, slight jaw trembling and teeth grinding, and a decent amount of euphoria, but of course, I couldn't recommend someone to try this.

I'm also having difficulty finding this substance from any of my trusted sources, and after having a terrible experience from some bunk 6-APB from one of the most well known vendors, I'm unwilling to put my trust elsewhere.
 

cannibalsnail

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Adding a dopamine releaser increases the euphoria to MDMA levels as well as increasing confidence, sociability, energy and physical side effects (nystagmus, jew tension etc.).

I too am interested in comparison between IAP and MDAI.
 

Morkin

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5'11 145 lbs male. on no medication.
used a scale for dosage. labelled "IAP" clumpy, white appearance.
lots of experience with previous psychotropics
~60 mg oral mixed with water empty stomach (last meal 4 hours ago) - doesn't mix well with water - small clumps stick to side of wine-glass - swirl it down with more water. taste isn't too bad. more sour than bitter (!?)
.45mins - 2nd dose of ~40mg
1hr in "come up" feeling. eyes dilated. go outside - slight social anxiety despite in sunglasses.
1.15hrs - colours more vibrant, energy/ flush feeling in face & genitals (keep gum handy - a little jaw tension)
1.30+hrs - increased vibrancy, quite lovely. lines very clear. would be a good enhancer to go to the gallery or see a good film. - nice visual, but no strong mental change (only a sense of pleasure at such an easy, gentle trip) - doesn't get any more intense than this, but lasts. genitals hot. no erectile dysfunction. energy. slight "floaty" feeling to moving around
4 hrs - decided it would be fun to drink & smoke cigarettes. Drank half a bottle of sherry. Did not drink any water! MISTAKE. IAP by itself is probably quite dehydrating. By midnight I had a headache. Headache throughout the night with slightly raised temperature and diarrhea. Headache persists until 2pm the following afternoon. I recommend no alcohol - or if you do include it - drink lots of water.

duration: about 8 hrs - colours stayed vibrant until the last hour, energy up but also with a slightly wobbly feeling in the limbs, genitals flushed until the last hour. Note - half of this trip was mixed with alcohol.

conclusion: would be a good sex/art-gallery chem - not as strong as a good E (no euphoric, "loved-up" feeling nor rushes of energy), but still nice for a mild psychotropic break or a little enhancement to a good, long fuck. No changed introspection - not a thinking, but a doing chem.

enjoy while it lasts! :)
 
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Jesusgreen

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Interesting report.

Has anyone else here tried snorting IAP? I found when snorted, just 5-10mg produced a rush like snorted MDMA, albeit milder, and more on the warm relaxed side than the amphetamine rush side. I think it seemed a lot more effective than oral though, since my first experience with 60mg oral mostly just showed antidepressant qualities until I added stimulants to the mix. Snorted IAP on its own however performed a lot better.

That said, I'd be careful about snorting it. It doesn't hurt bad or anything but it left my nose blocked for a good 24 hours in a way that no other drug has, so I'm a little wary.
 

Morkin

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5'11 145 lbs male. on no medication.
used a scale for dosage. labelled "IAP" clumpy, white appearance.
lots of experience with previous psychotropics (especially MDMA)
100 mg orally administered, mixed with water on an empty stomach (last meal 3 hours ago) - doesn't mix well with water - small clumps stick to side of wine-glass - swirl it down with more water. Taste isn't too bad. More sour than bitter (!?)

1 hour in, eyes massively dilated. No real energy, more a shakiness in the limbs. Some empathy - talked with a friend who was depressed & made me feel low. Unpleasant introspection. Wanted to lay down. Instead we went out to cheer ourselves up. Fun to be around people for a while, but no urge or real ability to dance. Increased vibrancy of lights in the club.

8 hour trip. Felt social, but only in a sober way. Didn't stay out for long. Went home & had slow, sensual sex - orgasm was drawn out & powerful. Eyes massively dilated to the very end of the 8 hours. Strong jaw clench last few hours that made sleep impossible without taking 2 zopiclone.

Headache next morning. Had lots of water last night, so pain probably not due to dehydration but to jaw clenching in the last few hours and probably through some of my 8 hours of sleep. Sleep must have been bad, because I slept for another 3 or 4 hours in the afternoon.

Compared to other substances, IAP isn't that interesting. It is possible I need a higher dose & should take magnesium with it. So far, though, not very impressed at the effects.
 
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Jesusgreen

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I wouldn't go pushing the dose much higher. Although at higher doses people have reported they seem to finally get enough of the dopaminergic effects to give it a rush, they also seem to report serotonin-syndrome like effects e.g. hot flashes, nausea, etc.

Personally I think snorting this seems to be the ROA to go for as I've had a very pleasant rush from snorting it while orally the effects are on the milder side until other substances are thrown into the mix. That said though, snorting this stuff really blocked up my nose so be careful.
 

Morkin

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Thanks. I've decided against pushing the oral dose. So now I'm left with some fairly boring stuff, unless I'm willing to try different ROA.

Not keen to insufflate or plug.

From reviewing this thread, I see that there's some info on smoking in terms of amounts (5 - 10 mgs) & effects & duration (4 hours). Someone mentioned it must be freebased.

Is this true? If so, what is the best method?

thanks :)
 
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MeDieViL

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People need to stop combining SRAs with DRIs. There are reasons it doesn't feel good.

A. 5HT2A upregulates D2. DRIs increase dopamine irrespectively, releasers tend to release far less dopamine in D2 populated regions of the brain. This is the main reason why drugs like MDPV and Ritalin are more paranoia inducing than Amphetamine or Meth. With releasers dopamine rises unselectively and because D2 is upregulated this compounds the paranoid feelings.

B. 5HT2A + 5HT2C + 5HT6 inhibit dopamine release. Releasing agents release dopamine anyway but if endogenous release is limited by activation of these receptors then reuptake inhibitors are less effective.

C. 5HT1A inhibits norepinephrine release. See above.

And contrary to popular belief SRA + DRA (excluding Amophetamine and Methamphetamine) is not neurotoxic. This study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1726189 only combined MDAI with Amphetamine.

MDMA style neurotoxicity is caused by A. The production of Alpha-Methyl-Dopamine (a byproduct of MDMA/MDA/Amp/Meth Exclusively) and B. elavated cranial temperature (caused by massive serotonin release). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9128836

Therefore combining MDAI/IAP with Amphetamine WILL be neurotoxic. However combining it with 4-FA, 2-FMA, MPA, Mephedrone, Cathinone or any other dopamine releasing agent will not be neurotoxic.
This is wrong, first of all there's no reason to beleive that serotonin release causes more paranoia because of 5HT2A potentiating D2, 5HT2A antagonism wont help stim paranoia and D2 atagonism doesnt in my experience either (with selective antagonists).
Releasers also release glutamate trough A7, this caused increased nmda activation wich increases gaba while amphetamines themself release gaba too. Reuptake inhibitors dont.

5HT2A (togheterwith a1b) entirely mediates amp induced da release, 5HT2A antagonism lowers dopamine and def doesnt raise it, altough this was assumed at first as new ap's increased pfc da, but its not because of that. 5HT2A, 5HT3, 5HT4 all increase dopamine, not that it matters as dopamine is not what causes euphoria.
 

Dresden

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I am interested in trying 5-methoxy-IAP. Anybody tried that one yet? f&b expressed interest in it as well.
 

Jesusgreen

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I am interested in trying 5-methoxy-IAP. Anybody tried that one yet? f&b expressed interest in it as well.
Might be worthy of its own thread since it's a different drug entirely, I'm be curious about this one too. :) Feel free to start a thread if you like, and with any info you know so far about the drug, maybe links to any reports you've read if anyone has tried it. :)
 
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