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The Big & Dandy HOT-7 Thread

Ximot

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As the search-engine didn't yield anything, I'd like to ask here whether anyone has lately come across this substance and what their experiences were. All I know about it is what Shulgin wrote ....

Thanks
 
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Jabberwocky

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It will just dehydroxylate into 2CT7 in the stomach I think. It will be identical to 2CT7 subjectively. The reason why this is not more evident in Shulgin's reports are that he did not do a wide enough swath of tests (plus with the power of suggestion that he undoubtedly hyped up to his testers).

Here's a quote from the FLEA passage (hydroxy-MDMA).

Shulgin said:
EXTENSIONS AND COMMENTARY: Most people who were involved with the evaluation of FLEA quite logically compared it with MDMA, as it was presented as being a very close analogue which might share some of the latter's properties. And to a large measure, the comparison was favorable. The dosages are almost identical, the chronological course of action is almost identical, and there are distinct similarities in the effects that are produced. If there is a consensus of similarities and differences it would be that it is not quite as enabling in allowing a closeness to be established with others. And perhaps there is more of a move towards introspection. And perhaps a slightly increased degree of discoordination in the thought processes. But also, part of this same consensus was that, were MDMA unknown, this material would have played its role completely.

And from the scientific point of view, it lends more weight to a hypothesis that just might be a tremendous research tool in pharmacology. I first observed the intimate connection between an amine and a hydroxylamine with the discovery that N-hydroxy-MDA (MDOH) was equipotent and of virtually identical activity to the non-hydroxylated counterpart (MDA). And I have speculated in the recipe for MDOH about the possible biological interconversions of these kinds of compounds. And here, the simple addition of a hydroxyl group to the amine nitrogen atom of MDMA produces a new drug that is in most of its properties identical to MDMA. The concept has been extended to 2C-T-2, 2C-T-7, and 2C-T-17, where each of these three active compounds was structurally modified in exactly this way, by the addition of a hydroxyl group to the amine nitrogen atom. The results, HOT-2, HOT-7 and HOT-17 were themselves all active, and compared very closely with their non-hydroxylated prototypes.
 

Jabberwocky

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Also, there are a few hydroxylated drugs known and distributed. For instance, Parahydroxyamphetamine and parahydroxymethamphetamine have been 'on the street' and I believe have killed.

Also, PMA (paramethoxyamphetamine), you might recognize this drug, it gets demethylated in vivo to PHA (the drug above). It has caused fatal cases of serotonin syndrome when mixed with MDMA.

The HOT series (hydroxylate a 2CT and you got a HOT) is as far as I know theoretical to us 'commoners' at this point, although it would not be hard to synthesize I dont think.

The problem with HOT7 is that part of it would like decompose to regular 2CT7 making it illegal to possess within the US (don't know about other country's drug laws).

So, the drug probably decomposes to t7 ex vivo as well as in vivo.

Maybe the mods want to think about shifting this to ADD, since none of us have experience here in PD with it (or does somebody???). I think when there is not a chance for subjective reports (where this forum shines), then ADD might be a better place (chemistry is def not my strong point!).
 

Morninggloryseed

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samadhi_smiles said:
It will just dehydroxylate into 2CT7 in the stomach I think. It will be identical to 2CT7 subjectively. The reason why this is not more evident in Shulgin's reports are that he did not do a wide enough swath of tests (plus with the power of suggestion that he undoubtedly hyped up to his testers).

.

I don't know about that. Speculating of course, the time course on two of the the HOTs reported are distinctly different than that of their corresponding 2C-Ts. 2C-T-7 is never 6-8 hr (as HOT-7 is) and 2C-T-12 is never more than 12 hours (as HOT-17 is). I think even if the HOTs are oxidized in-vivo that the end result is going to be different...just as the 4-AcO-Ts are 'different' to most of here than the corresponding 4-HO-Ts....due to absorbtion rates/the AcOs being active in, and of themselves, etc.
 

Xorkoth

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Indeed... I think the Aco-Ts have shown us that oxidation in the body does not necessarily mean the effects will be identical.

Anyone else think we should move this to ADD?
 

Jabberwocky

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Hey MGS,

well I think that 4-aco-Ts can cross the BBB (see the thread in this forum on the first page about my and others thoughts on it). So it really is a bit of a disanalogy.

Do you think the difference in time and effects could be due to not a large enough sample size for HOT7? I do.

I think a lot of shulgin's work is flawed for this very reason (aleph-1 comes to mind!).

For instance, my +3 trip on 2CT7 (I usually only try each phenethylamine once out of curiousity) was 6 hours (though I plugged it). Not 12.

That said, I'd pay lots for some HOT7 since I loved t7 so much. It was WONDERFUL WONDERFUL stuff. But, I'm talking to you about that (preaching to the choir).

peace,
samadhi
 

Morninggloryseed

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>Do you think the difference in time and
>effects could be due to not a large enough
>sample size for HOT7? I do.

Not personally. I've worked with threshold and sub-threshold of T7, and it was never just a 6-8hr experience. But I acknowledge that T7 is quite variable from person to person. And in your case, it was plugged...not eaten. :)

And with HOT-17 being listed as a 12-18hr experience, I'm confident something is different from the 2C-Ts. But pure speculation...someone bring some out and I'll test for myself!

And in the interest of art......

A HydrOxyThiophenthylamine (of the N-hydroxylated, 2,5-dimethoxylated, 4-substituted-phenethylamines kind of course) .....

 
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Jamshyd

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It looks as ugly as other phenethylamines with a 4-methylthio group, but thats just me... I think sulphur makes things stink (and it usually does, now that I think about it...) ;).
 

feelgoodhit

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that's a really interesting looking molecule, MGS. for some reason it sticks out to me in terms of appearance.
 

Xorkoth

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samadhi_smiles said:
For instance, my +3 trip on 2CT7 (I usually only try each phenethylamine once out of curiousity) was 6 hours (though I plugged it). Not 12.

Well, consider that 2C-T-7 orally can take up to 4 hours to fully manifest, whereas rectally it comes up quite fast indeed. Add that to the fact that rectal dosing tends to reduce the trail-off/aftereffect stage, and it would make sense that it lasts 6-8 hours rectally. In fact that sounds about in line with my rectal T-7 experiences.
 

Jamshyd

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^I can echo this wrt. oral dosing duration. I cannot comment on rectal, since T-7 is one of the few I haven't tried that way, and have no intention on doing so.
 

dorothyperkins

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I've worked with threshold and sub-threshold of T7, and it was never just a 6-8hr experience. But I acknowledge that T7 is quite variable from person to person. And in your case, it was plugged...not eaten.

And with HOT-17 being listed as a 12-18hr experience, I'm confident something is different from the 2C-Ts.

With stuff that lasts this long i don't think you can accurately compare durations, if the come-down lasts 8 hours it's pretty hard to judge or define when it's finished. Also the highest dose of HOT-17 was 20mg higher than 2CT17, which probably equates to at least 15mg more.
 

dorothyperkins

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Or maybe the other way round? Google turned up lots of drugs that are apparently metabolised to hydroxylamines. It seems to me to make sense too, it could function as a handle to aid excretion or metabolism. I don't really know.
 

tobala

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In any event, I've seen it on the market only once and in all likelihood a more accurate description of the substance being pandered would be NOT-7.
 

egor

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The hole hot series is quite interesting. Will hot-7 for example still show the MAOI activity of its non-hydroxy counterpart??
 
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