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The Big & Dandy Eticyclidone / 2'-Oxo-PCE Thread

Xorkoth

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I personally haven't tried this one over 5mg, though I have some. Not sure why not, I guess I just don't care for dissos nearly as much as I used to (except MXE... god I love that drug).
 

Pontius Pilate

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What do we know about the metabolism of eticyclodone? Do we know what this breaks down into, and by what pathways?

Also, do we have any information about the max solubility, say in something like propylene glycol?


The literature is scant, or else paywalled, so I was hoping some of you might have something to say.
 

crOOk

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The combination of 2-Oxo-PCE and 2C-B/E is by far the best drug combination I've discovered to date. Total brain hack.

I've been into this combo for years now. It's great via any ROA, from oral to IV (my two preferred MOs, but it works well with any ROA).

It can be complemented by a little MDMA, the only issue with that is TOO MUCH EUPHORIA.

It makes shooting any combination of meth, coke and heroin look ridiculously dull. There's just nothing like it. Pure ecstasy at lower doses, deeply spiritual when using 2C-E and a dominating 2-Oxo-PCE dose.

I recently ran out of 2-Oxo-PCE (bought 2g years ago) and had to resort to using pharmaceutical grade racemic ketamine from the pharmacy for my monthly adventures. Worst thing that's ever happened to me, to give you an idea how much I love this stuff.

Found another 85mg. Best thing that's ever happened to me in my entire life. ;)

I'm not sure how many times I've mentioned this or if ever at all, but it can't be said enough:

This combo is the fucking shit. The one drug combination to end all drug combinations.

Disclaimer: I have a tendency to use superlatives inflationarily when it comes to dissociative drug preferences (but this shit really is the shit).
 
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crOOk

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I'll have to break the rules here and double post, just to make a point:

I fucking love this chemical more than any other.
 

Xorkoth

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Hey crOOk, nice to see you post. :) I haven't taken a hole dose of O-PCE yet (or of any disso in a few years), but you're definitely making me want to try. =D I've got some still so I might do that soon.
 

e1evene1even

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...had to resort to using pharmaceutical grade racemic ketamine from the pharmacy for my monthly adventures. Worst thing that's ever happened to me, to give you an idea how much I love this stuff.

MXE changed my life, and was my favorite (and main drug) for about 7 years. When it went away, and I had to resort to K, things went to shit as well.
It was ok (though inferior) for a while, but then after some life events when it was more "needed" it became hard to manage.

I still use K, but only get a gram at a time. Any more just turns into a destructive binge and any benefit is far overridden by turning into a fiend. Easy access has it's downsides.

O-PCE is the only thing I've found in the ballpark of MXE for treatment resistant depression and compared to K, I don't find it fiendy at all. Yes, it calls to me, but I won't continually do it until it's gone.

Unlike MXE, where I've gone into some very far out places, I've kept the dosage pretty low with O-PCE, around 12-14mg, with minimal re-dosing (I have a decent tolerance to dissos).
Partly it could be from getting older and being less experimental, but I tend to think this compound shines in the lower dosage. Reading this thread has also made me more cautious.

One main difference with MXE, is for me, I find the effects happen in reverse.
MXE is a dissociative state followed by an extremely clean/clear mental stimulation, whereas O-PCE is the opposite,

Both have advantages/disadvantages. One of my favorite things about MXE, especially by itself, is that I usually feel better, and more clear-headed at the end of a night. At Shambhala (back in the day), I only took MXE 3 nights in a row, and it was perfect. Taking anything else just seemed like a downgrade.

But when I've taken MXE after alcohol, the initial dissociative effect makes things very sloppy. I'm a non-smoker (totally now), but at the time I socially smoked and a few puffs of a cigarette with MXE/alcohol would have me unable to stand and in a different world.

In contrast, I find alcohol, then low dose O-PCE very synergistic, almost "magical" as the alcohol loosens the mind and inhibitions, but O-PCE makes it razor sharp. But make the mistake of re-dosing O-PCE as more alcohol is kicking in, and the initial dose is fading to the dissociative aspect and shit can go downhill really fast.

Another issue with MXE and likely O-PCE is that it's pharmacologically more complex than ketamine (NMDA only for the most part). The problem is that the NMDA tolerance builds first, which leads to re-dosing, and the secondary (serotonergic, etc.) effects seem cumulative. I've experienced some scary states when re-dosing MXE and mixing with other monoamine releasing/re-uptake inhibiting substances (my sample size is large). Sometimes, even when I'm comparatively sober something just clicks in my body and I quickly get confused and panicked (not just a panic attack). Trippy states I can handle, but this feels physical. I got some cyproheptadine (serotonin syndrome antidote), which seems like a very useful tool for the "toolbox", but as I've had similar states with K, I have a hypothesis it might be due to a change in the body's potassium/sodium balance (some research seems to support this). I went to the ER one time (thanks universal health care), and the only thing I remember was something related to potassium. In these confused states when I know I have little time to think clearly I've instinctively eaten a banana. A confounding factor in my case is possibly adrenal fatigue from long-term kratom use, stress/trauma (and minor amphetamine usage) causing a dysfunction of aldosterone which regulates potassium/sodium balance and fluid balance. Total "bro-science", but I'm posting this for posterity, in the off chance I'm on to something. ;)


My appetite for experimenting with random RCs has significantly reduced since my early days, so I could be missing out on some great new chems, but for me, MXE in 2010, and O-PCE in 2017 have been my last great discoveries.

I really hope this one hasn't gone the way of MXE. MXE is banned in China and also by the UN so unlikely to make a comeback (synth is too hard to scale), and while O-PCE hasn't been officially restricted as far as I know, it's possible that it became popular in China (as the obvious successor of MXE), and a domestic crackdown will lead to it's demise. The Chinese government even tried to remove Ketamine from the UN's essential medicine list, so they won't hesitate to take action when something becomes "popular" domestically (another random theory).

(Btw, if anyone's experienced this very distinct state I mentioned, let me know, I really want to understand it from harm reduction/pharmacology perspective...)
 
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Pontius Pilate

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e1evene1ven, can you tell me more about cyproheptadine and why it should work as an "antidote" to serotonin syndrome?


On topic, I've found that it's incredibly important to take care of basic health and nutrition while using dissociative drugs. Keeping a regular sleep schedule, exercising, eating a healthy diet.. when the basics are taken care of, I never get any real negative effects from binging these drugs.
 

e1evene1even

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e1evene1ven, can you tell me more about cyproheptadine and why it should work as an "antidote" to serotonin syndrome?

That's easy. It's because it's the standard pharmacological treatment for serotonin syndrome that hospitals use for moderate to severe cases.

It's an old school drug with other effects, and there are more targeted serotonin antagonists which may be better suited, but this does the trick.
In Canada at least, it's also easy to get. OTC, but special order. I just went to the nearest location of the largest pharmacy chain, they put in an order, and it was there to pick up in a few hours.

For my own piece of mind, I think it's a useful addition to my psychonaut toolkit. Risperidone, ketanserin, and actiavated charcoal are others which I hope to never need, but feel better having (the latter would negate the former).
In nearly all situations benzos would still be the initial go to, unless the shit really hits the fan. ;)

Since I don't actually know exactly what's causing things, I usually resort to a little bit of everything. I'd take half of less of a 4mg pill. Over the years, I've become better at recognizing the early onset of this, but when it fully kicks in I know I have a very limited time before I'm too confused to think clearly Most of these these alarming experiences involved re-dosed MXE with other monoamine drugs which had me leaning towards the mild serotonin syndrome hypothesis, but having the same thing with K led me more towards the idea it could be related to non-addison's adrenal deficiency and lower aldosterone (which regulates potassium/sodium balance) amplifying K/MXE's effect on potassium which probably isn't a problem for most people. Both ideas are pure speculation.

Another huge thing that I don't think many people know about is Hapé (properly spelled with an R, and pronounced haa-pay, but ya know). Amazonian mapcho based snuff. It can pretty much kill a K trip in 2-3 minutes (similar to how tobacco is used to chill aya trips). I haven't tested with dissociatives with more complex pharmacology than K, but it's reliable for me and close friends (discovered after meeting a random smart person at a festival that accurately described it as "ketamine's kryptonite"). Based on my experience Hapé would be my first choice before benzos. A cold shower (or head wetting) also can be very helpful. Buckets of cold water over the head is something I first experienced in Peru, and based on Wim Hof related reseach it seems to be a decent way to help the body reset.

The serotonin antagonist cyproheptadine is the recommended initial therapy, although there have been no controlled trials demonstrating its efficacy for serotonin syndrome.[7][54][55] Despite the absence of controlled trials, there are a number of case reports detailing apparent improvement after people have been administered cyproheptadine.[7] Animal experiments also suggest a benefit from serotonin antagonists.[56] Cyproheptadine is only available as tablets and therefore can only be administered orally or via a nasogastric tube; it is unlikely to be effective in people administered activated charcoal and has limited use in severe cases.[7] Cyproheptadine can be stopped when the person is no longer experiencing symptoms and the half life of serotonergic medications already passed.[57] {/quote]

@Xorkoth for sure, would be great to ketchup. :)
 
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crOOk

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I still use K, but only get a gram at a time. Any more just turns into a destructive binge and any benefit is far overridden by turning into a fiend. Easy access has it's downsides.
Ha I hear you. The pharmacy only sells vials in packs of ten (500mg each). Real bummer. ;) :p

I am not sure which state you are referring to in the end, the alcohol 2-Oxo-PCE combo? All I know is that it makes me feel like it's Christmas Eve. Seriously. I'm not into low dissociative doses though.

Hey crOOk, nice to see you post. :) I haven't taken a hole dose of O-PCE yet (or of any disso in a few years), but you're definitely making me want to try. =D I've got some still so I might do that soon.
Thank you! Eventhough I may not be around much, it always feels like coming home. :)

So I had like 3 IV doses of 2-Oxo-PCE (85mg) left and 40mg 2C-B as well. I was gonna go for two more rides before I ran out, but made a mistake preparing the combo, ending up with a surplus of 2C-B in the mix which made it impossible to inject. However the solution was still very much suited for oral use.

I didn't like the idea, but boy did I miss out in these past years. Fuck needles.

I came to decide to brew a magic potion, consisting of various psychedelics, dissociatives and maybe low dose MDMA/opiates. So far there are 7 substances in there and my wife and I absolutely loved our first experiment. This is gonna be my project now lol. It shall never run empty and hopefully there will be dozens of substances in there when I leave it to my grand children some day. :D Go harm reduction.

Anyway, the experience was so good in fact, that I decided it's time to turn my back to needles (not categorically and indefinitely, just for the time being until I change my mind).

I started experimenting a little with 5-MeO-MiPT which is good in it's own way.

However a couple of days ago I had a few friends who I have known for almost 30 years over at my place. They had their wives with them. I don't see them very often since one of them lives abroad. We cooked, ate and drank and I ended up slightly drunk when they left.

So... What do I usually do when I'm drunk? Yeah, you might've guessed it: Drugs. 2C-P in this case. It had me crying for ten hours straight until I could barely breathe, the entire nasal passage clogged with thick slimy snot., that's how beautiful it was. GOD

Long story short... I'm back to where I started 20 years ago. Psychedelics. Why did I ever get started with needles and blackout dissociative doses when these beautiful serotonergic chemicals have always been in my possession? This, too, feels like coming home. God I've missed them.

@Xorkoth
I've had this 2C-P laying around for years now and I can say that there are few psychedelics out there as amazing as this one. It puzzles me that it's so underrepresented in terms of experience reports. If you ever get the chance, GRAB SOME! I never had the time to go for DOC which has always been one of my favourites. This one is every bit as intense though and will be my go-to psychedelic until it's gone (not much left).

That's awesome you've gotten back to psychedelics, I totally agree they're the best drugs out here. :) I actually do have 2C-P, 250mg of it. Haven't ever touched it yet for some reason.
It took me roughly eight years to try it, since people didn't give it much credit. Also because it is supposed to last an eternity, but I suppose those are exaggerations. You can easily go to sleep at night if you take it early in the day. I could imagine going hiking on a lower dose sometime. But well... Summer is nearing it's end. GOnna have to hope for some nice sunny autumn days and I'm off into the woods.

Thanks to that app "komoot" I finally found plenty of beautiful spots in Germany's north where my wife and I (and sometimes my daughter) can go walk/hike for hours on end without coming across any people. Never knew this region could be so beautiful.

It's funny how most people (me included) always long to leave the country to find beautiful places, when so many stunning landscapes can be found right at our doorstep. Well almost, I rarely have to drive for more than an hour.
 
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