The Big & Dandy Eticyclidone / 2'-Oxo-PCE Thread

roi

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IUPAC-Name: 2-(ethylamino)-2-phenylcyclohexan-1-one

Other names: O-PCE, Deschloroethylnorketamine, eticyclidone

CAS #: 4551-92-2

There has been some confusion over the identity of this compound due to strange naming by vendors. This thread will discuss the above compound.

It is structurally related to deschloroketamine.
 
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Incunabula

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wtf, that's retarded. Why not just let the name and the picture match. They could just call it 2'-Oxo-PCE and everybody would get what it is.

Beyond sketchy imo.
 

roi

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They even said themselves that they know it's a PCE and not PCP analogue, maybe their supplier decided on that name and they have to stick with it.

One day they might change it, if it actually turns out to be 2'-Oxo-PCE and it becomes more popular, hopefully not everyone will copy that shitty brand name.
 

Help?!?!

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Exactly. Okay guys, I'm pretty sure I'm getting some of this as a sample. Can't say just yet but how I explained it too them if this one is a gem.....

Edit: Should be here with some MXE soon. I'll let you guys know what's up. Sek, how should I start dosing(I'm going to titration from one mg but if you say this should be far weaker than MXE, also remember I love aryl's and can handle high doses of them though clearly we don't know exactly what this guy will do...thanks!), what's your guess at its potency?
 
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Incunabula

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Exactly. Okay guys, I'm pretty sure I'm getting some of this as a sample. Can't say just yet but how I explained it too them if this one is a gem.....

Edit: Should be here with some MXE soon. I'll let you guys know what's up. Sek, how should I start dosing(I'm going to titration from one mg but if you say this should be far weaker than MXE, also remember I love aryl's and can handle high doses of them though clearly we don't know exactly what this guy will do...thanks!), what's your guess at its potency?
If I was sure that what I had is what they say, I'd say start with 1 mg too. PCE is actually more potent than PCP, and I don't think the ketone in that position is going to make it less potent, just shorten the duration - We will see. (maybe)

Why not just eticyclidone
This one get's my vote, by the way. It makes sense, is easy to say and not too long. I think that is it.
 
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Solipsis

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Do we know what difference the 3-MeO makes if we compare this thread's chem with MXE? Or PCP with 3-MeO-PCP for that matter as a helpful analogy? As far as I know the 3-MeO takes a little bit of the roughest edges off since I heard that PCE is far too wild and manic and I found 3-MeO-PCE only barely doable but still nice. Could be useless anecdotal information and completely a dosage control thing... but my warning would be to be a little more careful with it than with MXE since it may be a little bit more full on.

What do others have to say as far as educated guesses go? Uneducated guesses are I'm afraid more harmful than helpful?

As always, SAR is not linear but dependent on so many variables that far too often we are surprised by exception but it is the best we can do and it does not hurt to be careful.
 
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Help?!?!

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Will surely do, I'll PM Sekio for his exact thoughts on potency. My guess 25-75mgs would be w good dose but they don't give out samples usually, so I have to make sure the grant they provide me with goes as far as it can!! But

Either way I'll most likely IM so looking for Ana hole is cake, but much who knows, husdcmmmmmmmmm
 
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Solipsis

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Go ahead and PM Sekio... I think your guess would be about right, the difference in potency between 3-MeO-PCP and PCP doesn't seem to be significantly (as in order of magnitude) different either.

Still why I wanted to post is: that still means you should use a decent 0.001 g scale and start very very low and work your way up steadily, allowing sufficient time in between each time. If you guys are the first to try it, then that is in some sense huge since you are pioneering, and curiosity or impatience have no place meeting the requirements for doing that safely.

Never mind the mystery chemical factor involved until analytical spectrum results have been resolved! (per batch at least until distribution reaches a more stable situation.)
 

Incunabula

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What're your thoughts about duration more ketamine like(1-4 hours?).
Well, obviously I don't know, but I don't think that it's only the ketone that is responsible for ketamine's short action, so no, probably not. I think regular PCE is supposed to have the same duration as PCP - so rather long lived.

I'm looking forward to your report. Too bad you're not having it sent for independent testing but I get why. PLease be carefull and all that :)

What do others have to say as far as educated guesses go? Uneducated guesses are I'm afraid more harmful than helpful?
^^ Gee, thanks. I don't hope that was meant towards my post :)

Anyway, arylcyclohexylamine SAR has proven to be a bit unpredictable imo. So most speculation can actually turn out to be wrong. Just think about NENK which was predicted to be a winner - but wasn't.

Comparing doses between the 3-methoxy and the non-methoxy arylcyclohexylamines actually gives a wierd picture too:

PCP and PCE has a dosage of 5-10 mg,(PCE reported to be slightly stronger) and so does does 3-MeO-PCP, but 3-MeO-PCE turned out to have a dosage of 20-30 mg......That doesn't make sense at all really.
 

Zombi3

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It would be nice to see some reagent results for this compound. If I is supposed to be like MXE I would worry some vendors may sell this as MXE due to the recent bans...
 

Solipsis

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Well, obviously I don't know, but I don't think that it's only the ketone that is responsible for ketamine's short action, so no, probably not. I think regular PCE is supposed to have the same duration as PCP - so rather long lived.

I'm looking forward to your report. Too bad you're not having it sent for independent testing but I get why. PLease be carefull and all that :)


^^ Gee, thanks. I don't hope that was meant towards my post :)

Anyway, arylcyclohexylamine SAR has proven to be a bit unpredictable imo. So most speculation can actually turn out to be wrong. Just think about NENK which was predicted to be a winner - but wasn't.

Comparing doses between the 3-methoxy and the non-methoxy arylcyclohexylamines actually gives a wierd picture too:

PCP and PCE has a dosage of 5-10 mg,(PCE reported to be slightly stronger) and so does does 3-MeO-PCP, but 3-MeO-PCE turned out to have a dosage of 20-30 mg......That doesn't make sense at all really.
Are you sure about that 3-MeO-PCE dosage? I personally found about 10 mg I.M. to be enough for my tastes, maybe there is a little difference but no order of magnitudes here IME/IMO.

@your question: no not at all, was not aimed at anyone in particular, certainly can't think of something to bitch about right now ;) I just meant that if we are going to speculate here on a compound we know all but nothing about which is not one of PD/BL's most appreciated things.. that I want people to give logical arguments for their claims. Guessing cause your gut says so is anti-HR, hence my warning.
 

Incunabula

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Are you sure about that 3-MeO-PCE dosage? I personally found about 10 mg I.M. to be enough for my tastes, maybe there is a little difference but no order of magnitudes here IME/IMO.
Yeah, I'm absolutely sure, but I'll take a look through the 3-MeO-PCE thread to verify it, when I have time. But then again, I don't think the purity of the 3-MeO-PCE that was shortly available was ever verified, although there was really no reason to think it was cut either.

@your question: no not at all, was not aimed at anyone in particular, certainly can't think of something to bitch about right now ;) I just meant that if we are going to speculate here on a compound we know all but nothing about which is not one of PD/BL's most appreciated things.. that I want people to give logical arguments for their claims. Guessing cause your gut says so is anti-HR, hence my warning.
Cool. I totally agree, of cause :)
 

Vurtual

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Yeah, I'm absolutely sure, but I'll take a look through the 3-MeO-PCE thread to verify it, when I have time. But then again, I don't think the purity of the 3-MeO-PCE that was shortly available was ever verified, although there was really no reason to think it was cut either.


Cool. I totally agree, of cause :)
A good single dose of 3-meo-pce was 20-25 for me; 3-meo-pcp ~15mg for similar intensity (though different effects obviously). 3-meo-pce had a magical/trickster effect not present with 3-meo-pcp (which was just like trippy coke for me up till 10-12mg/and fairly 'cold' dissociation above). MXE often seemed to have a related 'magical' quality too - i assume cos it had the pce in it. Seems weird for a vendor not to use 'pce' in the name of this with the association with mxe, and the more niche but still sought after 3-meo-pce. I'm assuming this would be illegal in uk.
 

Friman1987

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Representative Ki values for popular arylcyclohexamines: [1]
NMDA (Ki , nM):
Most potent; 3-MeO-PCP: ( 20 nM) > PCP: (59 nM) > 3 MeO PCE: (61 nM) > MXE: (257 nM) > Ketamine: (661 nM)


------------------------------------------------------------------------

Affinity is not the only important value:
Bioavailability of oral ketamine is around 20% [2]. Oral bioavailability for PCP is 72% [3] . Ketamine is a much more polar molecule than PCP. Polarity is perhaps an important factor.
Here below you can see how polarity incrases for various arylcyclohexylamines.

Image 1:

http://i.imgur.com/qc6LJ7o.jpg?1

PCP is less polar than 3 MeO PCP and should cross BBB much easier i guess. PCP is supposed to be less potent than 3 MEO PCP (by affinity) but the bioavailability maybe makes them equivalent.
2-Oxo-PCE is less polar than MXE and should cross BBB much easier. But the affinity for 3 Oxo PCE is not known. Therefore, it is impossible to guess the active dose anyway.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Structure:
Ketamine is structurally similar to PCM & N-Methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA).

Image 2:

http://i.imgur.com/VxGilVj.jpg?1

And MXE is structurally similar to Ketamine & Glutamic acid.

Image 3:

http://i.imgur.com/5oPx5Bp.jpg?1

Structurally 2 Oxo PCE is something between Ketamine, MXE & PCE, and have not any similarities to NMDA or glutamic acid (that makes it much similar to PCE).

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Metabolism:

If the molecule metabolises to 2,3-epoxide-2-OXO-PCE (hypothetically) [4] then you well get 3-HO-2-OXO-PCE. which is also an MXE metabolite (more polar than MXE).

Image 4:

http://i.imgur.com/XoyIgce.jpg?1

It is hard to say anything else about this molecule.
 
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Incunabula

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A good single dose of 3-meo-pce was 20-25 for me; 3-meo-pcp ~15mg for similar intensity (though different effects obviously). 3-meo-pce had a magical/trickster effect not present with 3-meo-pcp (which was just like trippy coke for me up till 10-12mg/and fairly 'cold' dissociation above). MXE often seemed to have a related 'magical' quality too - i assume cos it had the pce in it. Seems weird for a vendor not to use 'pce' in the name of this with the association with mxe, and the more niche but still sought after 3-meo-pce. I'm assuming this would be illegal in uk.
^^I totally agree. 25 mg insufflated was a perfect dose for me. And I agree as well with the "magical/trickster" thing that MXE and 3-MeO-PCE share. They definitely feel related. And yeah, it's so wierd with the calling it 3-f-pcp, and not 2-oxo-pce, I just don't get it, lol.

I just skimmed the 3-MeO-PCE thread, and from that I think I must correct my earlier dosage estimate of 3-MeO-PCE from 20-30 mg being a medium dose, to something more like 15-25 mg for most peeps, it obviously varies from person to person. But I don't think I was completely off anyway, when I said that it was less potent than 3-MeO-PCP.

Interesting post there, Friman1987. So you think polarity could be the major factor when it comes to potency? Makes sense when you put it up like that. 3-OH-PCE was a lot weaker than MXE though, but something else might be at play with that one.
 

Friman1987

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So you think polarity could be the major factor when it comes to potency? Makes sense when you put it up like that. 3-OH-PCE was a lot weaker than MXE though, but something else might be at play with that one.
probably.
Affinity and polarity should play an importent role.
 

ecstacylover

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I found a thread regarding 2'-Oxo-PCE on a Polish site and threw it in the translator. Here's a post I found may be relevant.

"2 - oxo - PCE was already once explored . Around the same period, which was founded METHOXETAMINE . In the notes I have written that it works very briefly 45-70 minutes. It has potent analgesic properties . NMDA receptors work poorly , mainly odzialuje receptors Opio . The dose of active starts from 20 mg . In practice , most people have to eat a lot more...
Another frequent encountered name is deschloro -N - etylketamina ."

Obviously the translation is not smooth, but seems more narcotic like than dissociative.
 
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