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☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy DOC Thread - Third opinion

Xorkoth

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At 3mg, it is always very visual for me. At 2mg, sometimes it's fairly visual and sometimes it's just light morphing/crawling and really bright colors.
 

hydroazuanacaine

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i'll try 2mg in two week. then if that doesn't get there, i'll do 3,g two weeks after that.

the few affects i did experience from it were extremely positive.

at .5mg foolishly staggered creating tolerance, i still got light visuals.
 

headfuck123

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So the rare time has come when I have multiple days off work/responsibilities, with the house to myself. Would DOC be a fun chemical for a solo trip during these strange times? Would the stimulation and duration be too much and how functional is 2mg?

I enjoy stimulants as tools for productivity/creativity, can DOC be harnessed like speed to make artwork etc? How bad is the vascoconstriction compared to Amphetamine base or other phenethylamines? I have extensive experience of 2c drugs but not of any DOX compound.

I am very comfortable tripping alone and have a slight tolerance, from a lot of mushrooms combined MDMA last week.

Went for 100 mics as a test run today. Bare in mind spring is my favourate time of the year, ive felt a bit flat after recently coming off Kratom, having a lot on my plate even before this covid problem. The long walk in the sunshine today felt really nice, mindful, not rushed, open and colourful even at such a low dose. Maybe it was seeing the blossoms, feeling the sun and getting a break from isolation or maybe it was the DOC microdose.

I walked at least 8 miles and once returning home noticed some pupil dialation, mild stimulation and a slight mood lift. I added 25mg 4ho-mipt to ensure that if the DOC keeps me awake, it will still be an interesting one at least.

Excited to give this one a propper try at around 2 - 3mg, once tolerance drops after a reasonable break. To me it feels like this could be a really great aesthetic enhancer, with enough mood shift and depth to be a really worthwhile psychedelic.
 

Xorkoth

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DOC is indeed a wonderful aesthetic enhancer, and is very thought-provoking, worldly, and lovely. It reminds me very much of mescaline in some ways, and also like LSD. It's truly a gem. It lasts a long time, like really, a long time, so that's the only thing to watch for. I'd start at 2mg, rather than 3. The difference between the two is substantial.

I once added 30mg of 4-HO-MiPT at about hour 8 or 10 of DOC, and it was one of the most profoundly joyful and impactful trips of my life.
 

headfuck123

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So the 4ho-mipt didnt add much due to tolerance so a silly impulse decision led me to 15mg of 2ce. Had been years since i'd taken some and I forgot how strange and powerful it is. Really wasnt the right time for such an endevour, felt a bit creeped out almost as if something was watching me but not in a paranoid way. No real insights, time for a long break as ive hammered my receptors quite a bit these past weeks.

Back on topic though, DOC really does have some long legs, cant wait to give it a whirl when im in better shape for it.
 

Buzz Lightbeer

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I once combined both 4-HO-MiPT and 2C-E, it had a surprising amount of synergy and had me crawling with pleasure. Interesting that you got such strong effects and tolerance from only 100ug. Like only on half a mg I can say I'm definitely tripping
 

Xorkoth

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So the 4ho-mipt didnt add much due to tolerance so a silly impulse decision led me to 15mg of 2ce. Had been years since i'd taken some and I forgot how strange and powerful it is. Really wasnt the right time for such an endevour, felt a bit creeped out almost as if something was watching me but not in a paranoid way. No real insights, time for a long break as ive hammered my receptors quite a bit these past weeks.

Back on topic though, DOC really does have some long legs, cant wait to give it a whirl when im in better shape for it.

Yeah in the absolute best case scenario I can't sleep for about 20 hours after dosing, in a 3mg dose make that 24 or more. I will still be a bit trippy that whole time too.
 

headfuck123

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I once combined both 4-HO-MiPT and 2C-E, it had a surprising amount of synergy and had me crawling with pleasure. Interesting that you got such strong effects and tolerance from only 100ug. Like only on half a mg I can say I'm definitely tripping

I think the tolerance was more from excessive amounts of mushrooms with MDMA the past few weekends. last weekend after the mushrooms and MDMA, I added 400ug of acid and fell asleep a few hours later when one of the 200ug tabs usually floors me. A waste of good psychedelics but when this much free time presents itself, its hard not to push it further once the initial magic fades.
 

Xorkoth

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Haha don't I know it. I've taken various lightish doses of psychedelics and 3-MeO-PCE the past 4 days now. Gonna cut it out tomorrow, especially as I am still working (from home). It's really been great though, I'm glad I did it, cleared a lot of cobwebs and it's afforded me a much better perspective on the lockdown situation, seeing the positives that are coming from it instead of focusing on the negatives.
 

Leprechaun

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Yeah the DOC peak can be quite sedating, after that it becomes more energized to me. However the entire experience is characterized by a physical calmness that isn't remotely jittery (except often for the come-up which can be jittery and a bit uncomfortable).

You're right, there are a lot of experiences of it being very deep. It's deep, but I just find it to be a very grounded substance. On higher doses the peak can be very otherworldly, but I have never detected even a hint of the psychedelic "void/oneness" loop that I get from other really strong psychedelics like many tryptamines, 2C-E, and others.

Did you get a lot of color saturation? It's a lot more pronounced during the day, outside. I love DOC outside in the daytime. Colors become phenomenally beautiful. It has fantastic effects on color perception. The last time I did it, I took it at noon, and at sunset it was the peak moment. I stood/floated in the ocean and looked straight up and drifted for 2 hours, completely transfixed by the sunset colors in the clouds. And the clouds were morphing constantly in a very fractallized and gorgeous way. The colors were so beautiful it brought tears to my eyes. :) <3

Something tells me that your setting had a role to play in your magical experience 😉
 

Xorkoth

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It helped, for sure, however DOC consistently gives me very worthwhile experiences.

Thanks for quoting that, it reminds me of that lovely trip, which was now quite some years ago. :)
 

Leprechaun

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I generally agree with this. I find oral methamphetamine very similar to vyvanse.

That being said... We have to accept that, regardless of whether we blame the dose or ROA, meth has very negative consequences for a very significant percentage of it's users. I wouldn't call the drug evil, but as an epidemiological phenomenon it's about as evil as it gets.
Where are you getting this information from, because the majority of people who try meth never have problems. Even in the hey day of Obetrol ... Just look up the work of Dr Carl Hart for discussions regarding empirical evidence of meth-amphetamine use and addiction.

Addiction is generally a coping mechanism to trauma, and the War on Drugs does little to minimise the trauma of addicts and users, in fact it perpetuates it.

Another great read is Chasing the Scream.
 

Leprechaun

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Absolutely, allergy testing is a must for new compounds and new batches. It brings to mind back in 2006 or 2007 or whenever, when that guy had a custom synth of 2C-B-fly done and was trying to distribute it, and he took what would have been a safe dose of 2C-B-fly to test it. Unfortunately the lab that made it actually made DOB-dragonfly, and the guy died from an overdose, by vasoconstriction (DOB-dragonfly is among the most dangerously vasoconstricting psychedelics we've yet come across). If he had allergy tested 1mg, he would have gotten significant effects and realized it wasn't 2C-B-fly, but instead he just went for it and paid for that mistake with his life.
This cannot be understated! Always do an allergy test.
 

Leprechaun

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Yeah the comeup 2-3 hours can really suck and range from uncomfortable to weird or apparently worse. IMO assuming you have the energy to go the duration, it's the main downside to DOC - I didn't have many others.
I think it probably really pays to find a way to skip or ramp up that comeup quickly like by nasal or vaped administration?

Your fugue state sounds like dissociation and even amnesia... In xIHKAL sometimes such strange states of consciousness are described like Beth state or fugue state. I wouldn't be too quick to categorize a drug based on a limited number of times or limited number of people who react that way.

Interesting that sunifiram also caused something like that, would not have expected it.
Beth states are not fugue. Beth states are quote


This drug was the first definition of the term, Beth state.

There is something of the Fournier Transform in any and all drug experiments. A psychedelic drug experience is a complex combination of many signals going all at the same time. Something like the sound of an oboe playing the notes of the A-major scale. There are events that occur in sequence, such as the initial A, followed by B, followed by C-sharp and on and on. That is the chronology of the experience, and it can be written down as a series of perceived phenomena. The notes of the scale. Black quarter notes, with flags at the tops of their staffs, going up the page of music.

But within each of these single events, during the sounding of the note "A," for example, there is a complex combination of harmonics being produced at the same time, including all components from the fundamental oscillation on up through all harmonics into the inaudible. This mixture defines the played instrument as being an oboe. Each component may be shared by many instruments, but the particular combination is the unique signature of the oboe.

This analogy applies precisely to the study of psychedelic drugs and their actions. Each drug has a chronology of effect, like the notes of the A-major scale. But there are many components of a drug's action, like the harmonics from the fundamental to the inaudible which, taken in concert, defines the drug. With musical instruments, these components can be shown as sine waves on an oscilloscope. One component, 22%, was a sine wave at a frequency of 1205 cycles, and a phase angle of +55!. But in psychopharmacology? There is no psychic oscillo-scope. There are no easily defined and measured harmonics or phase angles. Certainly, any eventual definition of a drug will require some such dissection into components each of which makes some contribution to the complex whole. The mental process may some day be defined by a particular combination of these components. And one of them is this Beth state. It is a state of uncaring, of anhe-donia, and of emotionlessness.”

From above -
“And one of them is this Beth state. It is a state of uncaring, of anhe-donia, and of emotionlessness.”

I found this common on DOI.
 

ecstacylover

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The Beth state is defined by Shulgin as an anhedonic state, but the individual reports in PiHKAL describing it (ALEPH-7 & ALEPH-4) definitely make it seem like a fugue state.
 

Xorkoth

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The come-up to DOC is pretty long, but for me, whenever I occupy myself with something (hiking is the best activity for it), rather than sitting around, I enjoy the come-up. If I sit around and wait for it, it can be quite uncomfortable.
 

Buzz Lightbeer

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I've been toying with the idea of doing a home trip on DOC for a long time now (I was always on a hike), the most I've taken is 4.5mg which honestly didn't feel that much stronger than my first trip on 2.5mg, a little tolerance might have been in play. It's been at least a year for me, but I have more experience with DOx since then and in hindsight I feel like DOC never fully fully developed for me, I might be wrong on this. This is what I want to find out so....
I wonder if high doses (7+mg) change the character of the drug? Like, is there another level to it. I've skimmed through the B&Ds and quite a few have taken that high or even higher (10+mg), but I suspect that often heavy tolerance was in play or that the DOC itself was impure or cut. There's not too much qualitative info on these doses apart from that they're absolutely amazing most of the time.
 

Xorkoth

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The first DOC trip report I remember reading was someone taking I think 10mg, and they had an otherworldly experience where they reported experiencing a portal opening up like a window to another dimension, or something. It's been a long time, I don't remember the details.

Personally, 3mg is plenty for me, but you seem to be more of a hardhead than me. 7mg isn't going to be dangerous, and DOC is so good-natured, I'm sure you'll be able to handle it.
 

Buzz Lightbeer

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Yeah DOC is indeed good natured, and I have some experience with high-ish doses of DOx, so I'd think 7mg would be no problem.
I did read plenty of reports of people that had a psychotic episode on higher doses, this does kinda worry me.

I'll see, maybe some day comes, I'm so curious anyway. I was surprised at how many people only found DOC mildly stimulating even on high doses, I mean, I have to walk for hours to be able to sit down somewhat still. That's how I remember it at least.
If it isn't a high homedose, I'll do a hike day on a good spring/summer day for sure. This is one of the only phenethylamine RCs that has 3-part B&Ds :) one of the best...
 

Xorkoth

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It's stimulating, but not as stimulating as actual stimulants, in my experience. Not as stimulating as DOiP, either. For me, it provides a strong body energy, especially in the come-up, but it doesn't really raise my heart rate much or anything. I's mostly a limb energy which makes it hard to keep still until later on.
 
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