The Big & Dandy DMT Extraction Thread - Second pull

[neur0net]

I thought that in traditional ayahuasca brews, the plant matter itself had to be consumed in order to get the psychoactive effect (with nausea/vomiting as a side effect). I haven't read anywhere that simply soaking DMT-containing plants in alcohol was sufficient to extract the DMT; if it was, you'd figure a lot more people would just do that rather than waste time with lengthy extraction procedures. I might be wrong though, can anyone else elaborate?

 

[coolesrat]

I think its the fact its mixed with alcohol which makes it
A bad choice for the brew sense im pretty sure mixing maois with alcohol is a bad idea and will most likely make you puke your brains out !!! Unless one was to bring the amount of alcohol down to a shot glass then it could easily be consumed, but this is not at all traditional in anyway at all.

The hole question on this is- is dmt in plants soluble in alcohol.

Btw I'm glad for all your input so far it's really made me think.

 

[Jesusgreen]

Using SWIM and other such mechanisms does not protect you in any way and makes your posts hard to read, as such it's against the rules here. Please edit your posts

Regarding neur0net's point that if alcohol was sufficient people wouldn't go through lengthy extractions - that might not be the case, as of course lengthy extractions are not for this purpose, but rather for the purpose of isolating pure DMT, without any of the other compounds in the root bark. It's plausible that with alcohol you could extract a mixture similar to oral ayahuasca with all the other alkaloids intact, but someone else would have to confirm this.

 

[coolesrat]

There i fixed it, thanks for pointing it out. I would do the ayahuasca normaly, but the fact that the alcohol methed could be quicker and easyer ( if possable ) and easyer to reduce its volume for easy oral use, i was also thinking what if one simply extracted the alcoholic mixture down to a thick oily mixture and mix with ash or lime etc... Like a yopo snuff. shouldent this convert it??

 

[sn23]

You have to differentiate between mimosa hostilis and psychotria viridis. The former is said to work orally as tea, so it needs to contain a MAOI; but it isn't a traditional ingredient in ayahuasca (please correct me if I'm wrong). The latter is traditionally used as DMT-source in ayahuasca but it does not contain any MAOIs. So it needs to be combined with an MAOI containing plant (usually b. caapi). So much for clarification

As mimosa tea is orally active I'd assume that an alcohol extract could work indeed. DMT is likely soluble in ethanol as salt and freebase, the same should be true for MAO inhibiting alkaloids. To reduce the amount of ingested alcohol you could evaporate the liquid to a reasonable amount.
A complication could occur, if any of the actives is bound to plant polymers; maybe adding a bit of an acid and letting the plant material sit in the alcohol for a while is needed.

For psychotria viridis does not contain MAOIs besides the DMT, an extract of that by itself is not orally active (be it a water or an alcohol based one).

 

[Mandelbrot]

You have to differentiate between the ancient use of traditional herbs and the modern use of concentrates and extracts. DMT is already in salt-form in MHRB. Thus it will dissolve in water. But only what is available. Any DMT-salts 'locked up' inside the vegetable matrix will hardly end up in your tea. DMT-salts are only moderatly soluble in alcohol. On the other hand, the alcohol *might* soften the cellulose somewhat. But you really need a pretty strong base to do that to any appreciable degree. I would stick to one of the tried and tested ways. Somebody probably has done what you want to do at some time in the past, but the fact that we don't read about it often (or indeed at all) probably means it has failed to produce a worthwhile product.

Depending on your stance, you can choose either way:
- The traditional way. Handed down over generations. Respecting Mother Nature. Living in symbiosis with the plant. Being probably slightly more safe from a legislative point of view, after all you're doing shamanic stuff. BUT: not very efficient and rather time consuming. Plus you'll have to cook the stuff for hours producing billowing vapour in your back yard. Also it will not keep very good and can become mouldy after a few weeks, even in the fridge.

- The western way, making a fast concentrate that's easy to dose and store and highly efficient. But it uses toxic chemicals. It is (in cases other than DMT) easy to overdose. And on top of that you're definitely making drugs. The law is very clear about making drugs.

So it's your choice: are you a shaman or 'just' a westerner?

 

[Survived Abortion]

I think the whole point of doing the AB or STB extractions is to isolate the pure DMT from all the plant fats etc. When you just extract the DMT in to water - or alcohol in your case - you are pulling everything out of the plant which is soluble in that solvent. That will leave you with just a resin or goo, which would be extremely harsh to smoke.

Of course, since you are taking it orally then none of this matters. Water works in ayahuasca because of the heat involved in the brewing process. There is no reason why alcohol wouldn't work if you were able to heat it to just under it's boiling point, and maintain that for the length of time you would normally brew it. But it would taste ghastly, and you would be significantly inebriated from the alcohol, which would impact the experience and possibly make it far more nauseous and unpleasant than it would with water.

I definitely wouldn't want to take alcohol with ayahuasca.

So it's your choice: are you a shaman or 'just' a westerner?

Oh please. Enough with the whole 'shame of being a westerner' crap. Every culture has it's ways of doing things. It is what it is. There is no "disrespecting mother nature" in the way you prepare the plant to imbibe. The only disrespect is in regards to yourself, if you happen to make a toxic preparation which is harsh to your body. But neither method is "correct" or intended by nature.

 

[coolesrat]

So dmt in plant form is soluble in alcohol ????

 

[Psymask]

Now, I have heard or read somewhere allong the way of people using xylene as the solvent instead of naptha to extract from mimosa hostilis. Which is better? My friends first extraction used naptha and precip in the freezer. Will xylene precip in the same way?

Cheers ppl.

 

[Vader]

No, you have to evaporate xylene. It takes a long time, and it leaves you with a less pure product. It's also pretty hard, IME, to get all of the xylene out.

 

[Psymask]

So naptha trumps xylene. Thanks for quick feedback. Just thought I'd ask since I spotted some xylene.

Taa.

 

[MyExcuse]

Not so, Xylene trumps Naptha if you use Fumaric Acid Saturated Acetone/Isopropanol to precipitate the DMT.

 

[Vader]

Baby steps now, I think it's fair to say that naphtha is a good place to start.

 

[laika_rising]

A friend of mine was telling me that naptha can be replaced with reagent grade petroleum ether in an LSA extraction. She didn't know whether or not this could also be done with a DMT extraction. She said that the PE was a much cleaner product to work with than the Naptha in terms of what other solvents are mixed into the Naptha, particularly Benzene. I've already skimmed the thread(s) and didn't see this mentioned, although it may have been.

Could anyone speak on this?

 

[sn23]

I think she's right. Naphtha is an ill defined mixture of hydrocarbons whereas petroleum ethers have oftentimes specified what they contain (i.e. max. benzene content, amount of aromatics, max. n-hexane content, evaporation residue and so on). Its solvent properties for DMT extraction should be just as good as naphthas (likely better than naphtha with high aromatics content, as e.g. xylene is said to pull colored fractions).
So overall a good grade of PE is definitely preferable if you can afford it.

 

[laika_rising]

Thank you for getting back to this.
She's been looking for sources, and has found some that seem both reliable and affordable.

 

[B1tO'RoughJack]

It doesn't necessarily go cloudy unless you blow on it - it will only be cloudy if it's very highly saturated with DMT - one occasion I had a couple of pulls so concentrated they started crashing crystals before I even lowered it past room temp.

Regarding the 1 litre glassware - when you've put in both the NaOH and the MHRB into the water - there will not be any space in the jar. Either way, 15ml to 1g has been found through experimentation and tek tweaking by many before you to be an optimal ratio - I've personally tried and tested a couple of different ones, and have had bad results which havve taken more effort to correct because of it.

To answer your Q about HDPE - no idea. It's just good to use during extraction due to being easily available for cheap extractions and it doesn't react with the naptha.

It's also forgiving if you drop it, and if there's a fair bit of pressure in the container - unlike glass it don't shatter or explode flinging fragments all over the shop!

What temp is your freezer going down to? I have been having similar problems of late - not finding a freezer cold enough - I have about 8-10g to precip but it's not working...I need to evap and ssee if it's the saturation or the freezer temp. It needs to be -20 and below though dude.

A flat dish in the freezer - well you run more of a risk of condensation forming - with a jar or bottle in the freezer there's not much chance if you've done a good sodium carb wash, and you can use epsom salts to get the very last bit of aqueous liquid out of solution, as far as I'm aware (never done it - don't quote me on it - I am going to try it next time but google it!)

 

[gymstud]

In a stb when you get too presipitation stage
Will crystals form without freezing just beeing left in cold

^ yes. if the concentration of your solution is high enough (if your solution is all cloudy) then crystallization will begin even at room temperature. there is a guide somewhere that suggests gradual cooling to create big crystals and he leaves his solution 2 days at room temp, 2 days in the fridge and then moves it to the freezer until they dont grow anymore. i think that thread is on nexus somewhere and he got some huge flowers!

 

[crope]

Doing my first dmt extract (stb) in need of some assistance. So I used 100g mhrb 100g lye aprox 75-100ml of naptha(3 pulls each in separate mason jars) and 1500 ml of water. I think the only problem I'm having is in the freeze precip. I let them sit over night and the next morning 1 jar had a few flakes stuck to the bottom and some floating about. I poured off the naptha through a filter and put the jar back in the freezer, come back 30 mins later and all tw dmt is gone. Tonight I plan on doing it again with 200g mhrb 200g lye 5000ml water and not sure how much naptha? Does anyone have a better solution so my dmt will not melt this time. I do not think my freezer is the problem it's just the whole process of freeze precip is giving me a problem. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[crope]

Thanks for the tips ^^. Another quick question should I keep the naptha at 75-100 mL per pull even with 200g of mhrb powder or should I double up on naptha since I'm doing the same with lye/water/rb. The only reason I ask is 200ml of naptha per pull seems a bit much and it seems like it would take longer to form crystals since there's more solvent. I could be completely wrong on that but that hy I'm asking you guys because I trust your word. Presh guys