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The Big & Dandy Basic Mescaline/Cactus Questions Thread - Round Two!

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illusion25

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Welcome to the Big & Dandy Mescaline/Cactus Thread



Mescaline --------- Peyote Cactus



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[original post:]

I have heard of the term "doping" your cactus to get an increase in alkaloids mainly mescaline.

quote from erowid--
Experiments conducted by Rosenberg, Mclaughlin and Paul at the University of of Michigan, Ann Arbor in 1966 demonstrated that dopamine is a precursor of mescaline in the peyote cactus. Tyramine and dopa were also found to be mescaline precursors, but not as immediate and efficient as dopamine. It appears that in the plant tyosine breaks down to become tyramine and dopa. These then recombine to form dopamine which is converted to nor-mescaline and finally to mescaline. One can take advantage to this sequence by inject-ing each peyote plant with dopamine 4 weeks prior to harvesting. Much of the dopamine will convert to mescaline during this time, giving a considerable increase in the alkaloid of the plant. Prepare a saturated solution of free base dopamine in a .05 N solution of hydrochloric acid and inject 1-2 cc into the root of each plant and the same amount into the green portion above the root. Let the needle penetrate to the center of the plant, inject slowly and allow the needle to remain in place a few seconds after injection. It is best to deprive the plant of water for 1-2 weeks before injection. This makes the plant tissues take up the injection fluids more readily. If dopamine is not available, a mixture of tyramine and dopa can be used instead 6 weeks before harvesting for comparable results. San Pedro and other mescaline-bearing cacti can be similarly treated for increased mescaline production. Inject at the base of the plant and again every 3-4 inches following a spiral pattern up the length of the plant. A series of booster injections can be given to any of these cacti every 6-8 weeks and once again 4 weeks before harvesting for greater mescaline accumulation.

It is also possible to increase the macromerine and nor-macromerine content of Doñana cacti using tyramine or DL-norepinephrine as precursors. Injections should be given 20-25 days before harvesting. Series of injections can be given 45 days apart for higher alkaloid accumulation.""
"


I had an interesting idea come to my mind. I was wondering what would happen if I injected a live cactus (peruvian torch) with a phenthylamine or even a tryptamine. I was thinking about injecting it with some 2CE.
I was wondering if it would kill the cactus or just potentiate the total cactus.
would the cactus adapt to the new chemical and kep it or even convert the 2ce into another chem?
I really have no idea what would happen but I thought i would ask here.

I was just wondering what were others thoughts would be on the possibility of this outcome.

any ideas? comments?

peace
 
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IGNVS

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hmm. well seeing how mescaline is the final product, injecting 2ce probably wouldnt do anything. find out the pathway for mescaline and inject with a souped up precursor of some sort and see what youll get.

kinda like the idea of puting some 5-meo in the mycellum of some cubensis to get 5-meo 4-oh dmt
 

5-HT2

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^^^what he said. Find out what the precursor is and dope the cacti with that. This strategy is supposed to be successful when you dope mushroom cultures with tryptamine.
 

turkeyphant

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IGNVS said:
kinda like the idea of puting some 5-meo in the mycellum of some cubensis to get 5-meo 4-oh dmt
That exactly what I thought when I first read about doping cacti. Unfortunately, unlike tryptamines, it's harder to whack new groups on other positions of phenethylamines. With mushrooms you can just put in 5-Meo-DMT and let the mushies add on the hydroxy at the magic 4-position but thinking of a suitable chemical to dope cacti with would be more of a challenge. Could it be possible that TMA could be made from amphetamine?!

Grossly simplifying and assuming they tack on methoxy groups to the phenethylamine, I'm not sure something with methoxy groups at 2,3,4,5 positions would be like or do. You could get some things related to GANESHA and 2C-G, even 2C-O. Trawling through PiHKAL, it seems there's lots of scope for completely unique chemicals. However, the inactivity of 2,3,4-trimethoxyphenethylamine means they might not turn out to be too interesting. Bear in mind this might all be crap as, compared to some people, I don't know shit about this sort of stuff.
 
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illusion25

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hmmmm......
if i injected it with 2ce would it stay stable inside the cactus? that way i can consume the cactus in a couple months and have a 2ce/mescaline trip.

I wasnt trying to convert the 2ce into a new chemical but rather make my cactus more potent by adding additional psychedelics. I was just worried that the 2ce might kill the whole cactus
 

turkeyphant

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illusion25 said:
hmmmm......
if i injected it with 2ce would it stay stable inside the cactus? that way i can consume the cactus in a couple months and have a 2ce/mescaline trip.
Why not keep it somewhere stable then inject it in your mouth when you eat the mescaline?!
 

illusion25

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Why not keep it somewhere stable then inject it in your mouth when you eat the mescaline?!
ya that would be much better.


It would be suprising but unlikely if the 2ce did change the chemistry of the cactus though.


a little off topic but another idea i thought of once was cross-breeding a cannabis plant with a coca plant. Cocannabis?
Or try breeding some salvia with some marijuana plants?

i think of crazy ideas sometimes when i am bored.....
 

Jamshyd

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Well, the quote says that Tyramine would eventually be converted to Mescaline. Tyramine is 4-Hydroxyphenethylamine. I wonder what would happen 4-halo-phenethylamine was used? I would assume making 4-iodo/bromo-phenehtylamine would be very simple.

Actually now that I mention it, do we know anything about the activity of 4-halo-phenehtlyamines?
 

turkeyphant

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Jamshyd said:
Well, the quote says that Tyramine would eventually be converted to Mescaline. Tyramine is 4-Hydroxyphenethylamine. I wonder what would happen 4-halo-phenethylamine was used? I would assume making 4-iodo/bromo-phenehtylamine would be very simple.

Actually now that I mention it, do we know anything about the activity of 4-halo-phenehtlyamines?
If the 4-HO group on tyramine is easily attacked and replaced, why would halogen groups be sufficiently more stable in that position? And even so, what would 3,5-dimethyoxy-4-halophenethylamine be like? If you could get an ethyoxy group to stay at the 4-position you could get 3C-E with 4-ethoxyamphetamine. Again, I'm no expert on this stuff so call bullshit if you think I'm wrong.

I can't say why, but I would be pretty certain plain 4-halophenethylamines would be completely inactive. The two methoxy groups must be there for a reason and everything in PiHKAL I can think of has three groups on the amphetamine/phenethylamine.
 

fastandbulbous

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Jamshyd said:
Well, the quote says that Tyramine would eventually be converted to Mescaline. Tyramine is 4-Hydroxyphenethylamine. I wonder what would happen 4-halo-phenethylamine was used? I would assume making 4-iodo/bromo-phenehtylamine would be very simple.

Actually now that I mention it, do we know anything about the activity of 4-halo-phenehtlyamines?
Just as likeley (if not more so) that they would act as an enzyme inhibitors for the one that uses tyramine as a substrate


It appears that in the plant tyosine breaks down to become tyramine and dopa. These then recombine to form dopamine which is converted to nor-mescaline and finally to mescaline. One can take advantage to this sequence by inject-ing each peyote plant with dopamine 4 weeks prior to harvesting. Much of the dopamine will convert to mescaline during this time
Bit of a problem with the above statement. How can trosine break down into tyramine AND dopa:
dopa is 3,4-dihydroxyphenylalanine and tyramine is 4-hydroxyPEA. how does 4-hydroxyphjenylalanine break down into those two products. They aren't going to recombine into dopamine either. Dopamine forms by decarboxylation of DOPA. I can't remember the biosynthetic pathway to mescaline off the top of my head, but I know that part just sounds so wrong. And what is nor-mescaline? Nor-anything implies missing a methyl group from a nitrogen atom (which isn't possible for mescaline), Maybe they meant desmethyl, but either way it reads like gobbldegook.

Preloading cacti (of most species) with DOPA does increase the final yeild of mescaline as does using dopamine, but I've never seen tyramine referred to
 

fastandbulbous

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I think priming it with alpha-methyldopa (blood pressure medication - Aldomet)might be interesting - leads to the posibility of TMA-1 & MMDA in plants that normally produce lophophine (3,4-methylenedioxy-5-methoxyPEA).
 

saltynutz

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The Big and Dandy Basic Mescaline/Cactus Questions Thread - Round Two!

We can't tell you as all plants are different, but if you were to go to erowid and do a little research and then do the math yourself you'd be able to figure it out.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cacti/cacti_article1.shtml

If you're lucky the plants contain 2.375% Mescaline.

If you're lucky you have a about a gram of Mescaline.
 
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read420

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cacti cuttings

if i get cuttings what must i do to prepare it so i can eat it? i Know that you need to cut away the spine and needles but what are the spines

if any1 has a working process that they like to use then please post it. i will post the method that i used once i finish it. I hope someone knows a method which will take less than 5 hours
 
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thedeadlywar

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I may do this soon, so I too have a question. How many inches of cutting would you want to do?
 

read420

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"A well-known rule of thumb for San Pedro dosages is a piece the length of your forearm (of 3-4 inches in diameter). That comes out to about a foot of average potency material and perhaps 18" of a weak variety and less than a foot if you have a particularly strong specimen. Translate this for the potency difference of T. peruvianus and it looks like the equivalent would be about 6-12" of 3-4" diameter plant."

answered ask erowid
 

read420

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here are the methods im thinking about. someone please help me choose the best once and answer what are the spines.

Method 1:
1. cut away spines and needles??? what are the spines
2.use carrot skiner to peel away skin
3. scrape away and save greenish layer in between skin and fiberous core
4.let dry until the greenish stuff is hard by sun or heat. ??? but for how long in the sun? or by heat do they mean you can use an oven or something?

Method 2:
1. cut away spines and needles
2. freeze cutting
3. dethaw collect goo
4. use carrot skinner to peel away skin
5. cut up layer in between skin and fiberous core into small chunks
6. blend up the chunks in blender or food processer
7. filter out hard stuff
8. mix goo from step 3. with the blended goo

Method 3
1-6 same as before
7. put mixture in boiling pot with water along with goo from step 3.
8. boil for 4-12 hours
9. use a cloth to filter out cactus chunks and keep liquid
10. drink remaining liquid
 

read420

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plus here are a few quick questions.

1) does freezing the cactus before working with it help?
2) what is the best method for drying out the cactus after cutting it into bite sized chunks of the good stuff
 

Black

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read420 said:
plus here are a few quick questions.

1) does freezing the cactus before working with it help?
2) what is the best method for drying out the cactus after cutting it into bite sized chunks of the good stuff
1. yes, it breaks down the cell walls of fresh cactus

2. i don't know. why do you want to dry it anyway?
 

swilow

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read420 said:
plus here are a few quick questions.

1) does freezing the cactus before working with it help?
2) what is the best method for drying out the cactus after cutting it into bite sized chunks of the good stuff
Freezing, thawing and refreezing several times breaks down cell walls better..... Best method for drying is air drying I've found, if you have a spot. Uusally I just put it on a tray ontop of a bookshelf with a heater on (hot air rises and shit). A few days, and it is crispy dry. Still tastes like fucking shit though :! but worth it :)

The spines are the pokey needles that stick out of cactii. You will find that they are embedded into the flesh, and often need some gentle digging to remove. Incidentally, thats where rot often sets in if you despine it and then leave it for some reason.
 
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