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Dissociatives The Big & Dandy Amanita Mushrooms Thread

^Wouldn't the cooking decarboxylate the ibotenic acid?

A. Muscaria grows rather rampant up here so I really should start eating some again.

Any idea if it could cause seizures in a epileptic?
 
Interesting. Thanks peabody :)

My few experiences years back had me twitching in a disturbing manner, similar to high dose pregabalin. No seizure but I would have been on 50-70 mg of diazepam too.
 
Decarboxylation is desirable, ibotenic acid is a NMDA agonist neurotoxin. The flavour of the dried mushroom is still powerful and it is most oersistent even when dried under heat and subsequently rehydrated and cooked in a stew. Goes lovely with peppery boletus (Chalciporus piperatus) which often grows with it, as a parasite, they make a fine culinary pair too.
 
In my observation, Amanita Muscaria pretty much always grows near pine trees. I have yet to remember finding some with no pine trees around at all. Another interesting thing about these mushrooms is that the root connection to the nearest tree might exceed 100 ft!

I have cooked them and there are recipes to make sure all Ibotenic acid and Muscimol becomes inactive due to the heat of cooking. They are indeed very tasty when properly cooked! :D

To prevent seizures or even the beginning of it, use vodka when taking Amanitas. Thats how its usually consumed in Russia. 100 ml or so with your mushrooms dose depending on how strongly alcohol affects you - it makes Amanitas A LOT easier to deal with and greatly reduces the body load, at least IME.

Its been awhile since I have ventured in the world of Fire Gods of Amanitas and reading this thread again makes me want to dive in there, maybe this weekend?..8)8(
 
I would avoid alcohol if possible and use a low dose benzo instead. The reason being for this is that alcohol is what pharmacologists term a 'dirty drug', meaning that it is really quite promiscuous in respect of what biological targets and modalities of action it exerts. It also for example an NMDA antagonist, and at high levels an AMPAr antagonist, and after consuming alcohol causes an excitatory rebound effect. Ibotenate is an NMDA agonist, and itself an excitotoxin which is used in biological research via microinjection into the brain into the specific areas being studied in animals, to destroy specific nerve pathways. After the initial inhibitory effects of alcohol, this rebound causes levels of glutamate to rise, and would worsen any excitotoxicity due to ibotenic acid.

So alcohol is the worst of the GABAa agonists to use, a low dose benzo would both potentiate the effects when taken just as the effects of the mushrooms begins, and help guard against any lowering of the seizure threshold. It ought to be noted, by the way, that brief twitches of muscles is to be expected as fairly usual with fly agaric.

Also, never, ever consume them without first curing them. And as for the sweating, tearing etc. this is due to
the cholinergic agonist effects at muscarinic acetylcholine receptors caused by muscarine. Muscarine is a quaternary ammonium compound which as such bears permanent charge, which in the absence of any means of active transport, won't make it to almost the entirety of the brain, excluding only such regions as the chemoreceptor trigger zone which isn't covered by the blood-brain barrier. Thus its effects are restricted to the peripheral nervous system.

As it happens, the amounts of muscarine, whilst in sufficient quantities it is a dangerous poison and can stop the heart, the quantities present in fly agaric are such minuscule fractions of a fraction of a tiny sliver of one percent that a bit of sweating, tearing, nose running and salivation, MAYBE nausea/vomiting, there are some mushrooms, particularly the genus Inocybe, as well as some Clitocybe speecies (E.g C.dealbata, C.rivulos) that contain enough muscarine to make them highly toxic, some of them lethally poisonous, but despite the compound being named after Amanita muscaria (the species epithet comes from the latin 'musca' meaning 'fly', as in the days before canned fly spray, people would kill flies in the house by mashing up caps of fly agaric in sugared milk, there is an odorant substance in fly agaric which is irresistably attractive to flies, which come to feed, become intoxicated, stunned and they fall into the liquid and either drown or die from the toxins in the mushroom), the muscarine levels are microscopic.

The levels in the Inocybes are dangerous, in some species even lethal, likewise for some of the Clitocybes, never is this the case with fly agaric; one neat thing about muscarine is that quaternary ammonium structure giving it that permanent charge, as there is an OTC med used for IBS, 'buscopan' which is the butylbromide quaternary ammonium salt of scopolamine/hyoscine. A muscarinic acetylcholinergic receptor antagonist with the action restricted to the peripheral nervous system, directly counteracts the effects of cholinergic agonists while not producing delirient effects.
 
Limpet_Chicken said:
Just when I think I know a mushroom, it goes and oneups me. Tricksy buggers Amanitas are and no mistake=D
Click to expand...

Why have you ever! Straight from my tripping notes:
"Fly shroo one-ups you!"
Nintendo disagrees, but it's the truth.

(I can already hear it replying:
"Fly shroom one-ups whom?"
Cuz why not mix in a hint of enlightenment.)
 
Good news everyone!

Plugging urine isn't necessary after all. =D Kidding, but milk and honey mask the taste perfectly! That must be why the ancient scriptures put emphasis on it, not to make the tea itself weirdly sweet-savory, but to make subsequent passes completely gag-free from now on. Just gotta remember not to smell the liquid, and then it's actually tastier than ordinary milk and honey believe it or not, ha!

Managed double recycling today. Didn't go for third round, the kidneys seem to freak out a bit when they have to remove the exact same stuff more than twice in a row it seems like.. maybe just something else to get used to, we'll see.
 
Pay attention please, the point was that it isn't disgusting anymore.

It's all mental tricks, and it becomes insulting once you see past the fact it's mere social conditioning. And if you can't even get beyond basic social conditioning then how are you ever gonna see through deeper basic conditioning as base functions of mind and have hope for any mental flexibility whatsoever. There's poetic dressing up of the ancient rituals with deep deep beauty, Amanita literature is like none else with the amount levels of meaning packed in each line, and nothing is as pregnant with symbolism as water itself to begin with. There this mind-bending historical angle, the convincing scientific one, and you'd have to disregard both to maintain petty uptightness and keep all sense of humour out and have less fun in the end.
 
I know I know =D
No offense was meant, you call it petty uptightness, I see it as an innocent and impulsive remark, as most were thinking it. I was aware of the context at the time of writing, but hey, you were able to explain yourself further, I'm sitting here with a smile, win-win. Still not any plans though
 
Chris Timothy you have some people wanting whatever Amanita knowledge you may have. I know G-Chem was asking in another thread. I promise I won't get grossed out. :D After all, some of that is tradition and history. And as you know some of us here will go through great lengths to preserve history lol. (alhough makes me wonder if any tribe, class, or groups ever actually plugged a substance before medicine found that as a way to administer drugs)

So if we hound you it is because of interest. lol I will try Amanitas at some point. I had smoked some of the dried skins to no effect when a well known member use to have one of the first online stores for intesting substances. But I have been watching Vikings and know Ale and Amanta's were the intoxicants for them. And Vikings seemed they woudn't mess with a placebo. Hell, they didn't use guns, the came right at you with a sword. :D As opposed to some of the Westerns where they had guns and shot people in the back. We can tell who the brave ones were!
 
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@Buzz Lightbeer
Sure close your mind to it already, be my guest. I was only persuasive in tone as defense against being called out as a gross old man or sumn.. dunno what to read in assertive voicing of the obvious and implied there.. oh well, whatevz, got the counterargument out like you say.

But you know, if you want to be prodigal with material, and if you can indeed afford to be so, then that's totally your business. And I do understand things like deciding otherwise can reflect poorly on one's self-image. I myself just slip mentally into the role of scientist, I'm not bothered by it. Another way would be to shapeshift into a shaman for the occasion, reading some literature to feel the connection with the people of old and join in with them and keep the actions and associations thus compartmentalized away from the nightmare of your crush suddenly picking up some rather funny taste during first kiss.. =D

So one can get creative. But let's not have hacking potty training steal the whole show, it's still a secondary aspect of the whole ordeal. Mind can get taken on the wildest trip without recycling just fine. It's just that every bio pass brings you closer to the muscimol experience. And if muscimol is the mental safe zone with this mushroom in the same way CBD is with cannabis, then creating the most civil atmosphere around urophagia is line with our harm reduction stance, curiously enough. :) (Well not really, but one can make the case on technical grounds, heh.)

And I'm extra happy with progress happening in this direction because it means that in coming spring I can take the Amanita experience on location in the forest. Its power is of dissociative level, if it hits right you're immediately in tune with the whole Universe, doesn't matter whether you're in a dowdy box or not. But folklore hints strongly towards connection through the natural world as well, as is so thematic for psychedelics, so maybe such synergy makes trippier doses a bit friendlier. Then again, falling in the big AM hole while out in the open doesn't sound very responsible, it's more an occasion to test out the Soma-as-combo hypothesis and make sure the emphasis lies on the psychedelic component.


@JackARoe
Thank you for the kind words of encouragement. And I did read @G_Chem's request as well. I've been having this little idea of shrouding the whole ordeal in mystery a bit to change things up a little and surprise the public with a meaty, juicy chunk of info about the juicy, meaty potion of gold. But I can't have that stand in the way of people wanting to join in on the exploration, it's just not as fun solo especially here at bluelight where particularly wondrous things happen as a result of people's energies bouncing off of each other.

And yes there is totally a berserker state somewhere within its effect spectrum, I've been able to personally confirm that. It took the form of a ridiculous amount of verbal abuse hurled at the smartest person in the universe I could find. If you burn bridges like that, then you can safely state you've gone berserk. It was so cool having had the visionary guy at NASA as mentor for as long as he kept replying. Alas, eaten by the fungus now so to speak, no more space adventures. Terrible waste, but at least it was for science. And maybe, maybe one day I'll prove I switched allegiance to the more powerful mentor. Imagine, right?

And I'll start by getting you peeps up to speed with what I learned about the Amanita from the practical perspective. I'll give it a ponder, probably a suitable task for the next Amanita experiment over here. :)


Today's been not particularly clear-headed. Super interesting to learn that opioids seems to bring out the auditory hallucinations of the AM! But I got in this unscratchable itching situation at the end when I threw some 4-AcO-DMT in there. It's a bit confusing because I understand the itch is an opi thing, but it was the psych that triggered the itch. I suppose such potentiation of negative side-effects was possible, despite those classes tending to cancel each other out, because of the presence of the mushroom. (I've noticed this before with using dissociatives as the contextual space where a deliriant and a psychedelic can meet without the usual mutual sabotage.) It's still itching by the way, not gonna repeat this setup without an antihistamine.
 
Sorry man, I understand. Looking back it was indeed a pretty tasteless remark, I'm aware.
Feels like a shitty situation for me but I hide behind the excuse that it wasn't personal at all, and drugs.... if that can be an excuse.

Thought so hard about what to reply but there's nothing good to say, checkmate ;)
 
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Volsam said:
In my observation, Amanita Muscaria pretty much always grows near pine trees. I have yet to remember finding some with no pine trees around at all. Another interesting thing about these mushrooms is that the root connection to the nearest tree might exceed 100 ft!

I have cooked them and there are recipes to make sure all Ibotenic acid and Muscimol becomes inactive due to the heat of cooking. They are indeed very tasty when properly cooked! :D

To prevent seizures or even the beginning of it, use vodka when taking Amanitas. Thats how its usually consumed in Russia. 100 ml or so with your mushrooms dose depending on how strongly alcohol affects you - it makes Amanitas A LOT easier to deal with and greatly reduces the body load, at least IME.

Its been awhile since I have ventured in the world of Fire Gods of Amanitas and reading this thread again makes me want to dive in there, maybe this weekend?..8)8(
Click to expand...

Ive been picking and using amanitas for quite a few years now.
But the absolute best way to ingest them is in the form of a tincture.

I dry and roast them in the oven on low temp.
Then i grind them into dust and put in a jar with vodka.
About 200g dried in 1L of vodka is a good amount.
After a few weeks most should be dissolved in the vodka.

I get alot better effects this way and dosing gets easy.
 
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