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The Big & Dandy AL-LAD Thread - Part 1

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Solipsis

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Welcome to the Big & Dandy AL-LAD Thread - Part 1

........................


AL-LAD vs. LSD
formula = 6-allyl-6-nor-lysergic acid diethylamide

<< GO TO NEXT BIG & DANDY AL-LAD THREAD (PART 2) >>




Description:

AL-LAD is an alkenated / alkylenated analogue of (6-nor-)LSD, or differently put a 'homologue' of DMT, that has a slightly lower potency in practice and somewhat shorter duration of effects than LSD although it showed higher potency in theory. It gained recognition after Alexander Shulgin described the substance in the book TIHKAL, although David Nichols and Albert Hofmann described AL-LAD 12 years before that in an article. However until recently AL-LAD has not been known to have been available on the market.
Because it is not an alkyl analogue it bypasses UK drug analogue laws. In this early stage of availability on the market AL-LAD is quickly gaining popularity, having a lot of the virtues of LSD and even advantages over it, although opinions and reactions always vary as per YMMV.
Until recently history of use in humans was quite limited, and positive reports do not guarantee physical safety. If it has remotely the therapeutic index LSD has it should be considered physically quite safe, but has not yet been proven, as far as I know.
AL-LAD Blotter Print (depicting structural formula / name):

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Ehrlich Reagent Test Color Results:

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Wiki & Analysis Data:

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Brief overview - What is AL-LAD?

AL-LAD novel hallucinogenic developed originally by David E. Nichols and popularized by Alexander Shulgin. It closely resembles LSD in chemical structure and has very similar dosages and effects.
Chemical and physical properties

AL-LAD is a 6-alkylated analogue of nor-LSD. (mod edit: the allyl group is an alkylene, not an alkyl because of the double bond)
Effects

Effects can be felt within a quarter hour to an hour or more. Physically the experience can include a warm body high, elevated heart rate and increased energy. Visually the effects are similar to that of LSD (depending on the individual). Users often report euphoria and music enhancement. Some users report a merge between audio and visual aspects of the experience.
Pharmacology, toxicity and general safety

DOSAGE : 80 - 160 micrograms +.
DURATION : 6 - 8 hours.
Very little is known at this stage about the toxicity of AL-LAD and potential long-term effects. As with any RC, caution should be exercised. No deaths or hospitalizations have been reported due to it's usage so far (august 2013) there is no data for lasting negative physical effect.
AL-LAD is every bit as much as potent as it's sister molecule LSD and should be treated with equal respect. This chemical is a powerful psychedelic and the effects are mostly mental/visual. Most online reports have been positive with no complaints of negative physical effect after the experience has ran its course.
Bad trips are always possible with almost any psychedelic and AL-LAD is no exception, with reports mentioning things becoming much too intense and 'cartoon like' at higher dosages. Always make sure you know how much you are ingesting and do so in a safe environment where you feel comfortable. NEVER ingest a psychedelic if you will be working or driving.
There scarce data regarding the combination of AL-LAD and other substances. Combination with MAOIs (monoamine oxidase inhibitors) carries the same risk as with many other psychedelics, however since this combination has not been documented it can NOT be recommended at this point.
Dosages and consumption methods

AL-LAD is easily dissolved onto blotters or can be taken in suspension, held under the tongue or on the gum and cheek. Anecdotal reports mention this compound being active orally, unlike LSD itself. A mild dose can be as low as 80 micrograms, with a intermediate dosages around 150-200 micrograms. Higher dosages have been reported up to 300 and 400 micrograms.
History of usage

There is not a much credible data because of the scarcity of this compound, however Alexander Shulgin has written an extensive report of his own self experimentation in TIHKAL entry #1.

Analysis of AL-LAD




AL-LAD Trip Reports sorted by ascending dosage:


External Links:



Excerpt from TIHKAL Entry:

TIHKAL said:
#1. AL-LAD

SYNTHESIS: To a solution of 66 mg nor-LSD (see under ETH-LAD for its preparation) in 2 mL freshly distilled DMF under a nitrogen atmosphere, there was added 48 mg anhydrous K2CO3 and 30 mg allyl bromide. When TLC analysis indicated that the nor-LSD had been consumed (30 min) all volatiles were removed under a hard vacuum. The residue was solubilized in CHCl3 (5x5 mL) and the pooled extracts dried over anhydrous Na2SO4 which was remove by filtration. The filtrate removed under vacuum leving a residual white solid. This was separated into two components by centrifugal chromatography (alumina, CH2Cl2, nitrogen and ammonia atmosphere), the first of which was the major product. After removal of the solvent, this was dissolved in hot benzene, filtered and cooled. The addition of hexane prompted crystallization of AL-LAD (N-allyl-nor-LSD) as a white crystalline product weighing 66 mg, yield 88%. It had a mp of 88-90°C and an [a]D + 41.8 (c 0.44, EtOH).

DOSAGE : 80 - 160 micrograms

DURATION : 6 - 8 h.

QUALITATIVE COMMENTS : (with 50 µg) "I am aware in twenty minutes, and am into a stoned place, not too LSD like, in another hour. I would very much like to push higher, but that is not in the cards today and I must acknowledge recovery by hour eight."

(with 80 µg) "I had a mild effect, although the doors to my repressed feelings somehow really become opened up. There was nothing transcendental here, but there were moments where I felt a conscious separation from the world about me. None of the profound meanings that I had hoped to have explained were explained."

(with 150 µg) "I felt it in less than a quarter hour, and was shooting up past a +++ in another quarter hour. Fast. Just like LSD but without the vaguely sinister push. A little time slowing, randy, no body disturbance. Dropping at six hours and totally tired and going to sleep at twelve hours. I will repeat."

(with 150 µg) "Simply beautiful. Erotic and music absorption after second hour. Clear thinking with superb imagery and good interpretation. Easy, gentle sleeping. Next day -- serene, clear-thinking peacefulness. One of the best materials ever."

(with 160 µg) "I took 160 ug at 11 AM on an empty stomach and lay down to listen to a hypnotic relaxing tape, with eye shades and headphones. The onset was very gradual over two or three hours. There was some visual distortion similar to LSD, but mild. I decided that this was about as intense as it was going to get, so I lay down in the living room with the others. The experience continued to intensify over the next hour in intermittent waves. I had to verify that I was actually in a physical room rather than in the music I was hearing. There was never any fear or panic, but I chose to retreat to a private place for the next couple of hours. Soon I started to feel worse and I tried to gain some insight and relief from my negative attitude. I prayed, and I cried, and I began to feel calmer and had more positive thoughts as to how to deal with the others, but I was still afraid to go out into the group. I was afraid that my hopelessness would bother them but I eventually went back out at about the five hour point and the rest of the day was spent pleasantly and smoothly. I took 2.5 g of L-tryptophan to sleep, and I slept well, waking twice."

(with 160 µg) "I pretreated myself with 40 milligrams of inderal 40 minutes beforehand, took the AL-LAD, and went to bed with eye-shades and ear-phones. There was a very slow onset. The effects were best described as very short bursts of loss of contact with my body, which became increasingly intense and frequent as things progressed. It became really trippy, like acid. There were no visuals with my eyes closed, but when I removed my eye-shades the floors were melting, and the wall patterns and the wood ceiling really flowed. My body felt very blob-like, and I had to get help from my sitter to get up so I could pee. I was very affected by music. There was a very long down-ramp, with physical excitation appearing to linger longer than psychic excitation. Pretty much out of it by 12 hours and I felt well the next day."

(with 200 µg) "This was taken on the tail end (seventh hour) of an MDMA experience. I felt it quickly, but it never got to a super level. Complicated erotic, good talking, looked pretty stoned, and yet I still had cognitive integrity."

EXTENSIONS AND COMMENTARY: This is one of the several very potent compounds in a large series of 5-alkylated analogues of nor-LSD. Most of them proved to be less potent than LSD, and considerably less dramatic. The Inderal mentioned in one of the comments is a trade name for propranolol, an antihypertensive that reduces nervousness.

A comment is appropriate concerning the use of the prefix "nor," as in the name of this material N-allyl-nor-LSD and of its immediate precursor, nor-LSD. Its exact meaning is that there is an alkylated nitrogen atom somewhere that has lost an alkyl group. The original term is from the German phrase "N-ohne-Radical" meaning N (the nitrogen) without the radical (meaning the alkyl group). The removing of the N-methyl group of LSD to form the N-H counterpart is a text book example of this usage. Unfortunately its use has slopped over to embrace the removal of an alkyl group from a heteroatom of any sort. Recently I learned of a metabolite of ibogaine that has lost a methyl group from the indolic oxygen atom (a methoxy has become a hydroxy) and the compound was called noribogaine. The correct term, to retain the use of the parent ibogaine word in its name, would have been desmethyl ibogaine. The removal of something is usually indicated with a "de-" or a "des" prefix ahead of the item that has been lost, as in deoxy (or desoxy) ribonucleic acid, DNA, which is ribonucleic acid (RNA) missing an oxygen atom.
 
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8-12

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I tasted just under 300ug a few days ago, I'm not going to write a full report because I found this dose to be somewhat underwhelming but I am nearly positive that this is the real deal. Extremely lucid, clean, gentle trip, though I'm not sure if this is an inherent property of the compound or just due to the very high purity. Very mild effects for the first ~2hours followed by a surprisingly rapid but enjoyable escalation to a 3-4hour peak, after which effects quickly dropped off and were pretty much gone by T+7h, though a placidly psychedelic headspace pervaded another 3 hours or so after that.

Could I distinguish it from LSD in a blind test other than by duration/timing? I'm honestly not sure, the experiences are very similar. The ~300ug I would compare in terms of intensity of effects perhaps to 200-230ug LSD, but it was much more calm or mellow and less "forceful", something for which some might prefer LSD itself. Still very interested in going higher, my next experiment will most likely be in 500ug territory but may not be for several weeks.

Supposedly the morpholide has already been synthesized with more lysergamides to come, so the fact that this is potentially the beginning of widespread availability of these beautiful compounds is exciting, to say the least.
 

doomsdayguy

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00:00 Tab on the tongue boys.

00:15 First effects are felt, as I am playing Alan Wake. A definite lucidness falls over me, almost like tunnel vision. There is also a small change in my internal thought process.

00:30 Feels very lucid and dreamy still, no real changes yet but I can feel the energy building in my mouth... It tastes like I'm ready to trip :)

01:00 Definite change in consciousness but still nothing in the visual field. Hearing feels sensitive though

If I were to compare to an LSD come up, there is no anxiety to even speak of. Extremely clean feeling and without much vasoconstriction.

01:30 ish I get asked to help move something. Visuals start to happen very quickly, I forgot I even took something! Visuals feel like a mix between LSD and shrooms, definite tryptamine vibes though.

02:00 barely able to do much without being distracted by the visuals, half of the time it feels like I'm not on something, the other half I am. It's a really weird effect. This feeling persists throughout the trip.

03:00 Visuals seem to happen the longer you look at something. Quickly glancing at things though, barely any visuals. Continuing down below.
 
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doomsdayguy

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About 3 hours in and things feel many magnitudes clearer than any LSD trip I have ever had. Generally I wouldn't be able to type out coherent sentences, but communication isn't difficult in any way.

It's like visuals have had an entire dimension I was unaware of. Gorgeous sunset outside so I'm gonna go enjoy that for awhile :)
 

borega

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when it comes to dosage what would you guys recomend for someone new to the ergoline subs? I have 150ug blotters here and am thinking if one is to much and i might wanna start with half instead? How is redosing on this?
 

zombywoof

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Do what you feel comfortable with but i think a half maybe too low but everyone is different. Also as no one has mentioned it i thought i would. Its maybe not a bad idea to allergy test first.From some reports redosing just seems to prolong as you wont know what dosage works till about 3 hours in. Stay safe remember you can always wait a couple of weeks and raise your dose for next trip.
 

my3rdeye

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Are the tabs tasteless like acid? I may need to stock up on LSD, this stuff sounds like it could fool anyone. Not that I am not excited about AL-LAD, i just like like to know what I am taking.
 

zombywoof

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Mine just tasted like cardboard no chemical taste like the complexed nbomes and i kept mine under top lip for about an hour before swallowing.I did get a slight numbness though.
I decided to test bucally even though i had read oral is good and i swallowed it anyway
 

any major dude

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Glad this looks interesting. it seems most of the allyl group psychedelics have been kinda lackluster so far, the DALT's, allylescaline... Gonna give it a try in the hopefully not too distant future :D
 

doomsdayguy

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Wow, I needed a few days to collect myself. This chemical is great.

The trip really transforms quickly. I was helping a friend move and we needed to drive across town at around T+5 or 6 to move a bed. I noticed the same buff in strength I normally do from Acid, but everything was very dream like and easygoing. I was sweating buckets by the end of moving everything cause I alone had to do it, but it felt great. This would be fantastic for a day hike.

Also, I am hearing this stuff isn't even active sublingually. Another person in tripsit told me he held his in his mouth for two hours and nothing happened, but as soon as he swallowed he came up fast. I swallowed my tab after 20 minutes of running it through my mouth, so I can't be sure from this trip.

I got more acid shivers than I normally do. Those felt awesome. The lack of anxiety is a huge plus for me though. Excited to hear what others think!
 

borega

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still not sure how to store this! Freezer or no? ATM its in a dark, dry, roomtemp place in 3x plastic (airsealed ziplocks) and with a sellecia gel pack on the last layer of plastic.
 

omgzzz

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I got to try this out over the weekend and it was good stuff. I took somewhere between 300 and 380 micrograms of it. I took it at around 515pm and felt it around 45 minutes to a 1 hour. It took somewhere between 1.5 hours and 3 hours to really get going. It started to die down around 1 or 2 in the morning. I went to sleep at 3 and fell alseep pretty quickly even though i was still tripping a bit. Woke up the next morning off base/afterglow and it was nice.

I feel like other reports i read about it are similar to what i found just taking it one time. It was easy going, but still somewhat deep, it just seems the deepness of the material is achieved in a different way. Music was incredible and it was extremely visual. Visuals similar to LSD but the colors were different and things seemed to ripple a bit in my field of vision. It does lack a lot of the mindfuck LSD has. It also had a very light amount of body load. I didnt mind it and it felt pretty good.

It is not quite as good as LSD, but sure beats a lot of other pyschedelics. I was pretty happy with my dose I took, although pushing it higher would most likely be too much for me. I will definitely be taking it again, but most likely not until September.
 

Incunabula

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You just store it like you would store normal LSD blotters.

Personally I would NEVER put blotters in the freezer, but that's just me.
 

LibertasMentis

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I would definitely store it in the freezer. Remember what Shulgin said about the stability of ETH-LAD in TiHKAL, there's no reason that couldn't apply to AL-LAD.

I suspect that this material is rather unstable in solution, even as the tartrate in dilute saline, although I cannot guess why that should be. A few months in the dark, at zero degrees and in the absence of air, led to a very real drop in potency, measured by a control assay of a freshly made solution of the same nominal concentration.
 

Si Dread

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According to Erowid, storage of LSD blotter in the freezer shouldn't be any problem provided the blotter is kept free of moisture. Allowing the storage container to return to room temperature before opening it will reduce condensation on a humid day. Open & remove the blotters as few times as possible through their lives!

http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.php?ID=82
 

Help?!?!

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According to Erowid, storage of LSD blotter in the freezer shouldn't be any problem provided the blotter is kept free of moisture. Allowing the storage container to return to room temperature before opening it will reduce condensation on a humid day. Open & remove the blotters as few times as possible through their lives!

http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.php?ID=82
Yes but its completely useless exercise unless you think you'll be storing like 2 sheets of blots that are like 200ugs AL-LAD. Why possibly attempt to destroy your blotters for no reason? People hear seem to sometimes not understand how putting things in the freezer works, you seriously need an absolutely air tight bag followed by a desiccant. Everyone knows LSD as long as it isn't stored absolutely like shit out in the light, in a hot and humid place. Theres been one to many times where someone found old blotter or just had blotters that had been around for 2+ years and if it was stored right they would pretty much all come back and say they didn't really notice much difference.
 

Obsidius

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Storage: wrap your blotters in tinfoil, put them in labeld ziplocks and stick them into a widemouth amberglass jar with a dessicant maybe an oxygen absorber. lab glass with proper sealing is airtight, so should work in the freezer, but i dont think its neccessary personally. i keep mine in a cool, dark place and as long as they are not exposed to moisture and light it should not be a problem. question is also, how long you intent to hold them in storage. if its years maybe go for the freezer. weeks and months your drawer will do.

So, i also was lucky enough to grab a handful of 130mic blotters of this noble substance. but your dosages confuse me. 300-500mics really? my normal acid dosage is at around 150ug, so given that AL-LAD is a little less potent 2 x 130mic blotters should do bigtime, right?
 

LibertasMentis

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Yes but its completely useless exercise unless you think you'll be storing like 2 sheets of blots that are like 200ugs AL-LAD. Why possibly attempt to destroy your blotters for no reason? People hear seem to sometimes not understand how putting things in the freezer works, you seriously need an absolutely air tight bag followed by a desiccant. Everyone knows LSD as long as it isn't stored absolutely like shit out in the light, in a hot and humid place. Theres been one to many times where someone found old blotter or just had blotters that had been around for 2+ years and if it was stored right they would pretty much all come back and say they didn't really notice much difference.
This isn't LSD. LSD is a relatively stable lysergamide, some of it's analogues are not. If you're worried about condensation then vacuum pack with an oxygen absorber and desiccant to be extra safe. It's not too much trouble to re-vacuum pack it every time you use them.
 

LibertasMentis

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So, i also was lucky enough to grab a handful of 130mic blotters of this noble substance. but your dosages confuse me. 300-500mics really? my normal acid dosage is at around 150ug, so given that AL-LAD is a little less potent 2 x 130mic blotters should do bigtime, right?
From what I've gathered from various reviews and discussions on private boards and with my experiences, most casual trippers are happy with 150-200mcg. It seems the 'hard-heads' are needing the higher doses. I think this is due to the lack of head-fuck at lower doses and this is what sets it apart from LSD. I see a fair few people trying to use it as a replacement to LSD - expecting it to give them the same head space. I think AL-LAD should be treated as it's own chemical, it can be all fun and games at lower doses but when you push higher shit does get serious. I'd start with 150mcg if I was you, it is still a research chemical.
 
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