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The Big & Dandy 4-MeO-PCP Thread 2 - 4-MeO, 4-MeO, wherefore art thou 4-MeO?

Asante

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I got a lot of early onset unrest in my 4-MeO-PCP experimentation, which I lacked in MXE, almost skin crawling and definitely uncomfortable. Further experimentation is planned though.

As to the toxic PCC cyanide intermediate, I think we can put that to bed.

As I said right before the topic was closed:
3-MeO-PCP and 4-MeO-PCP are often made in the way that can leave the toxic cyanide intermediate, there is however another route which is very attractive and does not leave any of the toxic cyanide compound.

3-MeO-PCE is unlikely to contain the toxic cyanide compound as its synthesis is usually performed via another, more efficient and safe route

Methoxetamine and Ketamine will not contain the toxic cyanide compound as its synthesis is completely different and wont work in a way that leaves such an intermediate.

I love to talk chemistry and I hate to talk in nontransparent absolutes, but given the rules on no synth talk this is the best I can do.
If anyone has any questions about it that I can answer without breaking rules, by all means do ask.


To put personal concerns to bed, there is a simple reagent you can prepare and use to test for cyanide presence:

Take 0.1gr steel wool and dissolve in 5ml concentrated hydrochloric acid. This prepares a test reagent for cyanide. Then dissolve 0.1gr of your to be tested arylcyclohexylamine in there. Wait a few minutes. If an intense dark blue color appears (prussian blue) your sample contained a PCC like contaminant or similar cyanide contaminant. Under no circumstances should attempts be made to recover the drug, leave the tap running and pour the liquid with the stream into the sink to dispose, avoiding to breathe the air near the tube. This will put personal concerns about PCC like contamination to bed.

Mods, I sincerely hope that this is within the rules. Its a procedure to test a drug for contamination, a drug test for harm reduction, not a synthesis. If its not acceptable I apologize, I put it in an easily removable paragraph and will abstain from submitting such content in the future.
 

MrFister

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To put personal concerns to bed, there is a simple reagent you can prepare and use to test for cyanide presence:

Take 0.1gr steel wool and dissolve in 5ml concentrated hydrochloric acid. This prepares a test reagent for cyanide. Then dissolve 0.1gr of your to be tested arylcyclohexylamine in there. Wait a few minutes. If an intense dark blue color appears (prussian blue) your sample contained a PCC like contaminant or similar cyanide contaminant. Under no circumstances should attempts be made to recover the drug, leave the tap running and pour the liquid with the stream into the sink to dispose, avoiding to breathe the air near the tube. This will put personal concerns about PCC like contamination to bed.
Wow! This is one of the higher quality posts i've seen all day today. Just for curiosity's sake, what is actually going on in this reaction?
 

skillet

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Sep 13, 2010
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Yeah great idea! ^ Iron dissolves in HCl to give a solution of Fe2+, then cyanide ions form a complex with the Fe2+ giving iron ferrocyanide. Some of this is oxidised (by air?) to ferricyanide (Fe3+) and Prussian Blue precipitates.
 

sn23

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Dec 31, 2010
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Yes it's oxidized by oxygen. If I remember correctly the reaction needs elevated temperature and some time to occur (speaking of free cyanide detection in qualitative analysis). Shaking and stirring could help to get oxygen into the solution.

Is the cyanide easily cleaved from PCC under this conditions (conc. HCl)? Does cyanide, or rather HCN form these iron-complexes in strongly acidic solution and high chloride concentration? I doubt the latter. Addition of a base may be needed.

Thanks a lot! It's really a very nice idea, but a few controlled assays should be performed before relying solely on this test.
Perhaps someone owning a PCC contaminated sample (as batches have been tested for PCC with GC/MS, IRC) and having the resources could try it :)
 

plexx92

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Joined
Dec 25, 2011
Messages
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I got a lot of early onset unrest in my 4-MeO-PCP experimentation, which I lacked in MXE, almost skin crawling and definitely uncomfortable. Further experimentation is planned though.

As to the toxic PCC cyanide intermediate, I think we can put that to bed.

As I said right before the topic was closed:
3-MeO-PCP and 4-MeO-PCP are often made in the way that can leave the toxic cyanide intermediate, there is however another route which is very attractive and does not leave any of the toxic cyanide compound.

3-MeO-PCE is unlikely to contain the toxic cyanide compound as its synthesis is usually performed via another, more efficient and safe route

Methoxetamine and Ketamine will not contain the toxic cyanide compound as its synthesis is completely different and wont work in a way that leaves such an intermediate.

I love to talk chemistry and I hate to talk in nontransparent absolutes, but given the rules on no synth talk this is the best I can do.
If anyone has any questions about it that I can answer without breaking rules, by all means do ask.


To put personal concerns to bed, there is a simple reagent you can prepare and use to test for cyanide presence:

Take 0.1gr steel wool and dissolve in 5ml concentrated hydrochloric acid. This prepares a test reagent for cyanide. Then dissolve 0.1gr of your to be tested arylcyclohexylamine in there. Wait a few minutes. If an intense dark blue color appears (prussian blue) your sample contained a PCC like contaminant or similar cyanide contaminant. Under no circumstances should attempts be made to recover the drug, leave the tap running and pour the liquid with the stream into the sink to dispose, avoiding to breathe the air near the tube. This will put personal concerns about PCC like contamination to bed.

Mods, I sincerely hope that this is within the rules. Its a procedure to test a drug for contamination, a drug test for harm reduction, not a synthesis. If its not acceptable I apologize, I put it in an easily removable paragraph and will abstain from submitting such content in the future.

Hmmm....cyanides are carbon-nitrogen triple bond anions....nitriles are c-nitrogen triple bonds attached to organic molecules. Cyanides are considerably more dangerous than nitriles.
 

Solipsis

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I'd award a prize for that home-made reagent test post if we did such things. :) Thanks very much! But does it work? I think my product is impure so when I get a chance I will perform this test and report my findings. If I'm not mistaken PCC at least partially metabolizes into some cyanide so can this process be imitated in vitro so that presence of PCC will not remain hidden but can actually be indicated by CN- generation?
Or can anyone who works at a lab try this with acetonitrile or another nitrile?

Despite the concerns about toxic impurities, discussion I seem to have sprouted myself or at least helped with... I think the thread is supposed to be about the drug itself and the promises it may have or where it may fall short. For that reason I would rather see a thread title covering the nature of the drug if you don't mind me disputing the current name. (changed, I guess it doesn't characterize it - makes sense since I don't know how it feels yet... because of the doubts about the quality).

I wouldn't mind some summarized descriptions of how this one fits into the family of arylcyclohexylamines, would anyone care to venture characterizing it? Not everyone is as concise about their use of words but I have found that some people's descriptions of some drugs are so spot-on that they become very helpful for people to consider it and take it into account (for example when deciding if it's worth trying or not).

Impurity discussion remains encouraged as well, so carry on about all of it!
 
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sn23

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Dec 31, 2010
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I suggest any preliminary tests should be performed on confirmed PCC-containing batches, for generally the stability of nitriles is variable. Acetonitrile won't release cyanide or HCN under normal conditions (but it is toxic nonetheless). I'd think that PCC, being kind of a formal HCN adduct of an iminium, does eliminate HCN. The questions are: under which conditions? (apparently it decomposes with HCN release while being analysed with TLC and both gas and liquid chromatography) And how could this be achieved conveniently with minimal resources?
Heating in the mentioned Fe/HCl solution could gas any HCN out of solution before any significant amount of hexacyanoferrates is produced (I still doubt these complexes are even formed under these conditions). With an alkaline solution we might run into solubility issues. Perhaps a little bit more sophisticated procedure is needed (like heating acidic solution for a certain time interval, then add a base and heat some more, then let stand until enough iron is oxidized; and hope to not produce false negatives, which is the reason why I suggest establishing that this works reliably).
 

skillet

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I think it'll probably work like Asante said, according to wiki - 'Iron(II) sulfate is added to a solution suspected of containing cyanide ... The resulting mixture is acidified with mineral acid. The formation of Prussian blue is a positive result for cyanide.'

If PCC breaks down on activated silica, but not after pre-treatment with the basic eluent, I guess it'll decompose in conc. HCl. I wonder if this could be a way to get rid of it too, let it stand for a few days in acid then basify and filter or extract (more) pure PCP.
 

DrMCrave

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Apr 12, 2011
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With the ease of the other novel routes, why risk using tap water and holding your breath? fume hood is required along with a wet towel and a tattoo of a number 42 on your forehead.
 

DrMCrave

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Is it true that smoking pcp or any derivative releases hydrogen cyanide into the air of the room?
 

Solipsis

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No it is not true technically.
However impurities in improperly made PCP or certain derivatives made following the same type of synthesis ("recipe") can contain cyanide. Whether it is released as hydrogen cyanide into the air or not only matters if you smoke it, because of second-hand smoking.
And there is hydrogen cyanide releasing chemicals in normal cigarettes as well. It's about the quantity, that can be worrying. For PCP impurities the quantity depends on exactly how impure it is, and what the impurity is. There can be non-toxic impurities in it instead.
 

Zedoric

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I have played around with this drug a bit thought I could throw in my non-technical opinion sorry if things have already been covered elsewhere.

For the high, it is very diverse in my experience, I have had proper body loads similar to K and MXE, full on visual trips, recently I watched the new alice in wonderland and for over 30 mins of it I will say it was the best film I have ever watched. I was actually in the film participating in events in a way that was truly astounding. I dont know if its similar to AM-2201 in the way that it doesn't target particular receptors or something, because I have had such a range of highs from it.

Taking it orally makes sense looking at the cyanide related posts now, it really was uncomfortable to digest for over a week afterwards, maybe it would of been good if I had thrown up, I was getting some intense kidney pains from its digestion and was a little worried for a while the damage was permanent or still being caused.

Snorting is my main method of experimenting, I haven't tried smoking it because I tested it on the edge of a spoon burning it with a lighter and the powder took a long time to start turning brown. Also I am a bit wary of smoking chemicals since I am never sure when it could have a chemical reaction and turn into something deadly.

Hope that helps someone got all the pieces together in my head anyway :p
 

jimf4ii

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I guess this stuff degrades pretty quickly. I made gelcaps of 4-meo-pcp about 6 months ago. Prior to today, the last time I ingested them was in March, they put me on another planet at about 175mg. Today I started off at 175mg, it felt good coming on but wasn't as strong as I expected, so I took another 65mg, waited, still not as strong as expected and took another 65mg. That was a half hour ago, and here I am typing away after ingesting close to 300mg. I should be rolling around on the bed, not typing coherent english.

I guess this stuff degrades pretty quickly. I made gelcaps of 4-meo-pcp about 6 months ago. Prior to today, the last time I ingested them was in March, they put me on another planet at about 175mg. Today I started off at 175mg, it felt good coming on but wasn't as strong as I expected, so I took another 65mg, waited, still not as strong as expected and took another 65mg. That was a half hour ago, and here I am typing away after ingesting close to 300mg. I should be rolling around on the bed, not typing coherent english.
OK you got your wish mr "I don't want to type english coherently." I did *another* full 175mg dose again after I posted that. This adds up to almost 500mg over the course of the day. I briefly found myself in some kind of a psycotic/delusional state at one point, crawling on the floor to dial 911, thankfully I woke up from that before making the call.

It was definitely the most dissociated state that I've ever been in. I'm not sure how to describe it, but at times I felt like I was caught up in time-feedback loop where I would keep asking and answering the same questions, and doing the same things over and over.

Not that it wasn't enjoyable, I brought out the blinking christmas lights (the kitties really liked that), and there were some good hallucinations of colors/shapes/forms/ that only a PCP derived drug could do.

I think I took 4mg etizolam when I started getting too delusional, and 1.5mg lorazapam when I wanted to go to sleep. I'm now awake after sleeping ~7 hours, though clearly still under the influence of one drug or another. Let's see if I can match up my symptoms to the drugs I took:

Walking around like a normal person still isn't possible, I blame that on the 4-MeO-PCP
Yeah my motor control is pretty fucked, still clinging to walls and stuff, that's the 4-MeO-PCP
I'm also having trouble focusing my eyes on things, I'll blame that on the benzos.

My breakfast this morning was a (very strong) pot brownie, a Pepperidge Farm turnover, 5 grams of White Vein Kalimantan. I am having the most beautiful and intricate CEVs. I also hallucinated the air conditioner saying "cinammon" when I linked the pepperidge farm url. This is quite enjoyable.

I can just watch movies by closing my eyes, if I don't like what I'm seeing I'll just open them and close them and a new scene will appear. I can hear auditory hallucinations via the air conditioner. If I don't like I'm hearing I can look at the air conditioner and it will go away. I'm definitely not sober but I'm OK enough to walk to the computer and type this in a reasonable amount of time. Yay 4-meo-pcp

Here I am still going strong. My heart rate is really high (120 bpm) so I just took an etizolam. I'm forcing myself to eat some rice and beans since I haven't eaten anything since breakfast. I'm going to lye in bed to watch some CEVs. Does anybody have any advice on getting my heart rate down?

Come on guys, help me out with any harm reduction help you can give me. do benzos help lower heart rate or not? based on how much I took,, 500mg, when do you think I will be back to baseline
 
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Thorns Have Roses

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Please do not multi-post and use the edit button to add onto your posts. Also, live trip reporting is a no go (aside from in the social thread).

Come on guys, help me out with any harm reduction help you can give me. do benzos help lower heart rate or not? based on how much I took,, 500mg, when do you think I will be back to baseline
I've taken up to 4 days to feel baseline after dosing that one in the past, after tolerance or whatever started building up more like 24 hours for return of motor coordination on normal doses. Actually your current experience reminds me almost exactly of one of mine, where it wasn't working right per dose and I ended up just taking several times more than usual (except I ended up vomiting bile and regular vomit all over the place and feeling completely horrible and near-unable to move for like 10 hours straight...).

IME GABAergics can make whatever dissociation you're still experiencing more intense, but for heart rate, I'd take a therapeutic dose of a benzo (or BZD-like drug, like etizolam) to help, if you feel you need it.
 
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